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Old May 10, 2011, 12:36 PM
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top-drive molded in

hi,

yesterday i put a wing with integrated top-drive in the mould, the servo and connection was made and glued in the cores before i closed the mould .

this should be a cheap alternative to rds wich produces only a very little amount of drag.

when i cut out the aileron slot , the pushrod comes free and i only need to put a horn on it and glue it into the aileron .

here are some pictures

-kristof-
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Old May 10, 2011, 08:23 PM
Kyle Clayton
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United States, VA, Dinwiddie
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Completed

Well, the two birds are done! Sorry for the delay, I've not had much time in the evenings to post my findings.

#1 came in finished at 288g, #2 at 300g. Prettu funny how their finished weights are still 12g difference, same as before they were built. I guess that goes to show build consistency!

Both of these planes are very well balanced, and can penetrate and range unbelievably. These are definitey two high performance machines here, I have high hopes for them

Thanks Kristof for a great plane and a great design!
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Old May 10, 2011, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krikkens View Post
hi,

yesterday i put a wing with integrated top-drive in the mould, the servo and connection was made and glued in the cores before i closed the mould .

this should be a cheap alternative to rds wich produces only a very little amount of drag.

when i cut out the aileron slot , the pushrod comes free and i only need to put a horn on it and glue it into the aileron .

here are some pictures

-kristof-

kristof,

You read my mind, top drive is the way to go IMHO. RDS has to have slop so it won't bind. Now you are provisioning for top drive, you are doing the right things for sure. Great job in all of your work, keep going! I can easily see a Helios being my contest machine in the near future.
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Old May 11, 2011, 06:54 AM
Kyle Clayton
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The RDS setup in mine doesnt have any slop. Kristof has installed the torque rod bearings near where they exit at the hingeline, making it a very solid install. Either way, I think both systems will work just fine. If I'm doing the servo install myself, top drive is the choice, but since Kristof offers RDS already done, I figured I'd splurge
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:50 AM
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I use bottom drive, its makes you a better pilot because you have to compensate for the extra drag?

Mostly F3K is a matter of making the right decisions.

I admit freely that top drive and RDS are better choices but more work and I am rather lazy
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Old May 11, 2011, 12:22 PM
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I wonder how long it's going to take me to simply assemble one of these with all the slobber running down my chin?!
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Old May 11, 2011, 01:53 PM
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I wonder how long it's going to take me to simply assemble one of these with all the slobber running down my chin?!
Hilarious, my sentiments exactly
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Old May 12, 2011, 09:23 PM
Kyle Clayton
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United States, VA, Dinwiddie
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More time on the sticks

Well, more time on these planes has made me a happier pliot each time I take them out. I think Ive got all the kinks and tuning worked out to where they feel great in the air. After all the trimming, I've decided I'm happy with the CG at 73mm. Its a perfect balance of sensitivity to air and yet still stable enough to let it fly hands off the sticks, even in bumpy air. For camber, I stuck with Kristof's recommendations. The throws I went off of what I have in my Edge 2P, 10mm +/- for aileron, no differential, 40mm flaps, 7mm +/- elevator, max rudder deflection with 80% A/R mix. I also have snap flaps programmed in, but with playing between them turned on and off, I think I prefer no snap flap.

Most of the time I've had with them has been in light air, but I've had them out in moderate lift, turbulence, and cloudy sinky conditions as well. As good as they perform in ideal air, whats really impressive is how well they do in bad air. Today I took them out in some cloudy light lift with big, long patches of sink between. What really took me was how many times I was in deep lift and told myself, "Well, I've gone way too far with this one" and started walking to retrieve it as I started heading back only to find that it would not only make it back, but with enough altitude to clear over my head and keep going.

These planes are as high performance as any big $$$ plane out there, don't let the "homebrew" title deceive you
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Old May 13, 2011, 01:53 AM
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kyle,

that amazed me too, how far downwind i could go and still be able to come back...

-kristof-
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Old May 13, 2011, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krikkens View Post
hi,

yesterday i put a wing with integrated top-drive in the mould, the servo and connection was made and glued in the cores before i closed the mould .

this should be a cheap alternative to rds wich produces only a very little amount of drag.

when i cut out the aileron slot , the pushrod comes free and i only need to put a horn on it and glue it into the aileron .

here are some pictures

-kristof-


Should it constructively be possible to locate the servo's even more inboard to reduce the inertia at roll axis?

Same question for the rds version.

Regards,
Bas
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Old May 13, 2011, 02:42 PM
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Should it constructively be possible to locate the servo's even more inboard to reduce the inertia at roll axis?

Same question for the rds version.

Regards,
Bas
hi,

what i did now is made a compromise, i could go more inboard to have the weight more centred , but i would prefer to have the aileron connection in the middel of the aileron , so this is the compremise i made...
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Old May 13, 2011, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bas B View Post
Should it constructively be possible to locate the servo's even more inboard to reduce the inertia at roll axis?

Same question for the rds version.

Regards,
Bas
Bas, are you telling us you can detect this small reduction in roll inertia? By my calcs improvement is single digit. I don't know about you, but a 10% change in dynamic behavior is the lower limit of our human detection capability. I'll take Kristof's top drive as is.
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Old May 13, 2011, 03:15 PM
Oleg Golovidov
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Positioning wing servos even up to 200-250mm from the root will have an unnoticeable effect on roll and yaw inertia moments. Moving servos from 50mm to 20mm (?) in case of Kristof's airplane will have zero effect and is not worth even trying.

IMHO, It is much better to have flutter free (reliably) ailerons and be able to give it all your available power on launch, than to have a 1-2% less yaw inertia moment but be forced to reduce your launch power by 20-50% because of flutter.
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Old May 13, 2011, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krikkens View Post
hi,

what i did now is made a compromise, i could go more inboard to have the weight more centred , but i would prefer to have the aileron connection in the middel of the aileron , so this is the compremise i made...
hi,

another thing , the original servo wires are a perfect lenght to go straight into the receiver, if you don't wan't to install a connector(like me, keep my wing on the fuselage most of the time)
then it's less work to finsih the plane and one item less that could fail.

-kristof-
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Old May 13, 2011, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by olgol View Post
Positioning wing servos even up to 200-250mm from the root will have an unnoticeable effect on roll and yaw inertia moments. Moving servos from 50mm to 20mm (?) in case of Kristof's airplane will have zero effect and is not worth even trying.

IMHO, It is much better to have flutter free (reliably) ailerons and be able to give it all your available power on launch, than to have a 1-2% less yaw inertia moment but be forced to reduce your launch power by 20-50% because of flutter.
Oleg,

Exactly! You said in much better, than I
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