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Old Dec 09, 2012, 10:17 PM
They Call him Dead!
YellowJacketsRC's Avatar
United States, SC, Pawleys Island
Joined Jul 2003
6,715 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
Thanks Doc for the great answer, as well as others who also suggest jb weld or letting it go.

I think I will try DOC's vice/CA approach, though.
I tried the vise today. It worked great... Until I flew the plane

Oh we'll it is a good trick to know. In the end I got more mileage from JB weld
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 10:39 PM
bryansifsof44's Avatar
United States, AK, Anchorage
Joined Oct 2011
4,546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Avllino View Post
Cool pic!! I think the wife got me the MXS for Xmas!
48"...That's what these skis were on originally. Awesome plane!
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:46 PM
They Call him Dead!
YellowJacketsRC's Avatar
United States, SC, Pawleys Island
Joined Jul 2003
6,715 Posts
I hate to bugger the thread up with servo tester questions but I can not find any place where people are talking about the HPP-21. If someone can send me to another thread that would be great!

Meanwhile I need to ask....

Just tried my Hpp-21 for the first time. After I programmed two aileron servos I plugged them back into the plane. I started messing with the endpoint adjustments in my A9 TX and I noticed that as I went from 100 on my end point adjustment up toward 140 (The limit on the A9) the aileron throw increased for a bit and then started to DECREASE even as I was raising the value in my TX.

I am very confused!

First, If I am going to program center and end points on my servos, should I be doing that with the servos in the plane?

I was attempting to set up the center points and endpoints the same way I would if I were using the TX to set up the servos e.i. set the full throw possible for left aileron going up, measure the distance, then set the up and down throw on both aileron servos to match so as to have equal travel all around.

But my initial results are very confusing????
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 12:00 AM
Wherever you go there you are
7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
8,395 Posts
What I do is:

Reset the servo programming via the HPP21.
Set the speed, deadband and power save (not all of the programmable servos have this third option).
Then I set the center and fail safe with the HPP21.
Then I set the left and right end points with the HPP21.
Then I end.
Then I test via the HPP21.

Then I use the radio to set the end points for maximum resolution.

However, I use spektrum.

If your radio has a monitor, make sure your TXs pots aren't jittering near the end.

Hope this helps.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 12:05 AM
They Call him Dead!
YellowJacketsRC's Avatar
United States, SC, Pawleys Island
Joined Jul 2003
6,715 Posts
Yes it's a start. thanks.

Are you setting these points while the servos are in the plane?

Are you setting endpoints by going as far as they can then measuring to see which direction has the most available throw, and then measuring it so as to duplicate with the opposite throw?

If yes to all above, then what happens when you turn on TX and start changing "maximum" resolution? Are you dialing up your endpoint adjustments on your TX?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 12:06 AM
They Call him Dead!
YellowJacketsRC's Avatar
United States, SC, Pawleys Island
Joined Jul 2003
6,715 Posts
PS, I will take pics of my motor scoops tomorrow and post for you...
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 12:24 AM
Wherever you go there you are
7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
8,395 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead View Post
Yes it's a start. thanks.

Are you setting these points while the servos are in the plane?

Are you setting endpoints by going as far as they can then measuring to see which direction has the most available throw, and then measuring it so as to duplicate with the opposite throw?

If yes to all above, then what happens when you turn on TX and start changing "maximum" resolution? Are you dialing up your endpoint adjustments on your TX?

I *carefully* set the end points with the HPP21 with the servos in the plane and the control rods connected. However, you might want to disconnect the control rods to get an idea where the end points will be instead.

As for equal throws, when I am trying to do a good job, yes.

If the holes on the control surface arm are lined up directly over the hinge line, this makes things easiest in my experience. Then, set the control arm length and center the servo so the servo arm is 90 degrees, or as close to 90 as you can, then program the center so the servo arm is 90 degrees. Servo splines often conspire against you though even if the control surface horn's hole is exactly over the hinge line for a no deflection control surface.

However, this isn't always the case, that the control surface horn's hole is lined up directly over the hinge line. Then it becomes a trial and error, since I am rusty with mechanical levers and three dimensional thinking. I really should think this through because it is always time consuming, and pops up more than I like.

But, when the control surface horn's hole is not lined up directly over the hinge line, I play with tradeoffs between the servo arm angle and center point until I get as equal throws for symmetrical servo swings as I can. I don't usually aim for perfect symmetry on the elevator. I was really lucky on the MXS 64" though, as everything just lined up for me. On the 48", I had to spend more time experimenting.

When you get to your radio, make sure you set your trim and sub trim to 0.

As DJMoose (sp?) mentioned earlier, it would also be good to see what the receiver is putting out compared to the HPP21--conceivably, the center pulse width for the HPP21 won't be the same as the receiver, likewise for the end point pulse widths. But, in the case of hitec receiver and hitec programmer, I hope that is not the case. But it might not be due to unavoidable variations in oscillator frequencies used by the HPP21 and the receiver, even in the case of all hitec gear. In this case, you might find that center (test mode) for the HPP-21 doesn't line up with the center of your radio. (But make sure your trim and subtrim are zeroed).

Be careful to not over drive the servo with the HPP21 if you have your control arms and control horns and servo arms all connected.

I need to spend more time writing something up that is more coherent on all of this, but it is hard, due to the different things that can go wrong, and my trial and error methods when everything doesn't line up correctly.

P.S. I have found the trial and error aspects of this are very frustrating and probably why others here think this is a waste of time, especially for somebody who flies as inelegantly as I do. But I like to know my lack of elegance can only be blamed on me, and not my setup. But mitigating or even avoiding this is one reason why I check control horn hole location before gluing control horns into control surfaces.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 06:54 AM
Fly til dark
jfuller1250's Avatar
United States, IN, Bourbon
Joined Nov 2011
147 Posts
Since I am looking for direction and did not know for sure where to post and you guys have been helpful in the past here is one for you to see what other clubs have done. My local flying club is looking at ways to get more of the electric crowd to show up. It seems one of the bigger problems we have is people think the grass is to thick for take off. I have flown the 47 inch wing span with no issues so not sure how much of a problem it is but we are pushing for new members. What are some of the clubs doing to help with this? One of the things we have seen is petromat but little worried about the seams and how long it would last. Any ideas would be great! Thanks!
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:02 AM
doh!
ryan_m's Avatar
United States, AR, Little Rock
Joined May 2006
4,208 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfuller1250 View Post
Since I am looking for direction and did not know for sure where to post and you guys have been helpful in the past here is one for you to see what other clubs have done. My local flying club is looking at ways to get more of the electric crowd to show up. It seems one of the bigger problems we have is people think the grass is to thick for take off. I have flown the 47 inch wing span with no issues so not sure how much of a problem it is but we are pushing for new members. What are some of the clubs doing to help with this? One of the things we have seen is petromat but little worried about the seams and how long it would last. Any ideas would be great! Thanks!
Do you have electric power at your field? Once we added that, the electric flyers went from me and a few others to nearly 80% of the club. I was one of the first to dump all of my glow planes and go all electric. A few other people dabbled and had one or two e-planes. But when we got electric power out there to run your chargers easily, more and more started to convert. That was 3 years ago, and now there are easily 10 electric planes to each glow plane. I actually find the 2 stroke glow engine noise quite irritating now because it has become so uncommon.
fyi - our field is grass too. And being Arkansas, which gets plenty of rain in the spring and fall at least, the grass can be fairly thick. I've yet to see it cause a problem. Electrics are generally so powerful that the smaller planes (under ~40 inches or so) that would have a problem can be easily hand launched. Larger planes don't have any problems dealing with it.

By the way, our electricity bill is less than 25 bucks a month. And we have an air conditioner in the clubhouse, as well as a small refrigerator, and dozens of outlets for charging setups. If you do go the route of adding electricity out there, do it right. Don't do one circuit with 4-5 outlets tied to it. Two people charging will pop the breaker if they have higher powered chargers. We have currently got five 20 amp circuits dedicated for charging at one end of the field, and plans to add about 5 circuits for the other end of the field over the winter. Each circuit has a single duplex outlet attached to it.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:17 AM
Not as Good as The Kid
Aeroplayin's Avatar
South Pasadena, FL
Joined Sep 2009
6,382 Posts
For three years, I was the VP at MCRC. During that time, we went through a transition where we laser-leveled the 500x150 runway, with 200 over-run on either side, re-turfed, and installed an irrigation system. We did Bahia instead of Bahama for a few reasons, but in the end, it's a great field to fly off. During the transition, we installed a 350x15 petromat, and the small electric flyers came out in droves, and flew for most of the morning. Tom and I fly in the afternoon, so it was no problem, but the guys flying big planes in the morning felt crowded with all the 31 inch "toys" cluttering the flight line and buzzing around field-center. This was an expensive runway in a flying club that has an air conditioned clubhouse with ladies' and men's rooms, a fully enclosed concession stand with a weather station, four shelters/hangars with 48 electric outlets.

To say the least, we enjoyed the added membership from the revenue perspective, but many were worried that they had gotten what they wished for, and were sorry they did. In the end, the petromat came up when the hydroseeding went down. We grew the grass correctly -- we have a six-man volunteer grounds crew -- and when the electric guys complain, they just cut the grass lower, the grass can handle it, and everyone should have been happy. But in this hobby, everyone doesn't like something, and the FOGs that couldn't hit the petromat on landing, or even stay on the petromat during takeoff, complained anyway.

Personally, I thought we should keep the petromat as well since it was on the inside 15 feet of the runway width and acted as a decent tarmac/taxiway for the bigger planes. But prop strikes really tear it ups, and so it requires patching, which is additional maintenance, and would have needed to be replaced every three years or so. We have a sister club that is strictly electric and they have a 3-wide petromat that always seems to be in great shape every time I visit, and it is their only runway. When it's your only runway, it will get the attention it needs. If you buy the right gauge, and take care of it, it's a good option. If it's a secondary runway, the added cost and maintenance will make it more of a burden than anything else.

You may try this... make the suggestion at a members' meeting and see what kind of response you get. If there is support, then ask for donations for the project after you have your costs in order. Asking for money will be the real test of its support. Our new turf runway was nearly entirely funded by member donations (a huge expense), and the petromat, relatively cheap, did not get the needed support to survive.

In the end, there are guys that contribute to a successful club with their time, or their effort, or money.... and guys that don't. Take care of the guys that do, and the other guys will tag along.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:25 AM
Fly til dark
jfuller1250's Avatar
United States, IN, Bourbon
Joined Nov 2011
147 Posts
Thanks guys for the great responses. I am a little worried about the petromat and maintenance of it. I think there are a few things I will bring up in the next meeting. Thanks again.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 10:46 AM
Wherever you go there you are
7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
8,395 Posts
I'm not sure what we use, but it is like a very heavy duty landscaping material. Has lasted over 5 years from what they say, pretty durable, but could probably use a change now.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 11:14 AM
VOLTS > AMPS
stgdz's Avatar
United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jul 2011
3,865 Posts
Anyone here able to 3/4 to full speed horizontal line into ke spin
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 12:13 PM
Not as Good as The Kid
Aeroplayin's Avatar
South Pasadena, FL
Joined Sep 2009
6,382 Posts
At the Deland Huckfest, I caught Tom on video drawing a box with Frank's 78, and he went from an up-line, kick over the rudder to the horizontal on KE into a reverse KE spin on the down-line, into a flat spin, the across the bottom horizontal back to field-center, to an up-line, to a tail slide. I think it's right at 4 minutes. I think I can do that all the way to the crash site.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 12:31 PM
Fly it 'till it breaks.
Motojunk's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined May 2011
624 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post
Anyone here able to 3/4 to full speed horizontal line into ke spin
I do it here at 3:50
Two Edges - Extreme Flight 48" Edge 540t hucking at Sepulveda Basin (6 min 18 sec)
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