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Old Nov 03, 2012, 03:27 PM
Yin & Yang
Liberty10's Avatar
United States, VA, Sterling
Joined Jul 2011
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Tom, That looked like fun.
I'd really like to know what power system going in it?
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 04:27 PM
can't buy vaporware
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
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Hey Tom, nice video. Horizontal stab/elevator bag and stab tube, wow.

Who would have though a 70" plane was so much bigger than a 60"? Looking good.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 04:29 PM
Not as Good as The Kid
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South Pasadena, FL
Joined Sep 2009
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I'll chime in here about the power system... We finally decided on the Hacker A60-16M with the Castle Ice2 HV120 with a Mejzlik 22x10e prop. James (wrjames38) was nice enough to share some data from his experience with the plane and motor, and this type of detailed data sharing is something we appreciate.

My friend Frank and I both bought the same power system recently, and he converted his gas 78 from a Syssa 30 to the Hacker this past week. We are still waiting for the Mejzlik CF 22x10e props, so in the meantime, we tried a 20x13, and a 21x10 Xoar PJN prop with good results. Tom flew Frank's red gas version 78 with the 21x10 four times yesterday and I'll let him comment on his feeling about the plane and the setup. He was able to fly Frank's two 78's in the past, and the other had a YS-170 4-stroke in it... so he now has experience flying it on gas, glow, and now electric.

We will probably put the 22x10 on it tomorrow and see how that goes, then the Mejzlik when that arrives, and decide which one is the keeper from there.

We are also trying several battery brands and some of the same brands with different C ratings, just for comparisons. The Castle HV ESC's have the data logger so we will also be reporting on power and current readouts in the EF power thread over the next few weeks.

I'll also keep some records on weights, as we begin the assembly of the new arrival, and see if there is a difference between Frank's older gas version and the new e-version delivery. The gas conversion comes in about 14 pounds with two 2S 1800mAh Lipos to the Rx and big 400 oz-in JR HV servos, and our setup will have one 2100mAh and Savox 1267SG's which will save about 6 oz.

My prediction was 13.64 pounds, so we still may be close. Even at 14 pounds, this marvelous airplane with this setup still delivers between 215 and 280 Watts per pound, and a wing loading of between 25.5 and 26, depending on prop size and battery type.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 05:32 PM
Facts, Logic, 3D
Tom K.'s Avatar
Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeroplayin View Post
and I'll let him comment on his feeling about the plane and the setup.
It's really sweet! The 21" prop provides really good initial pull out from a hover, but it's not rocket powered ballistic power... but it's still VERY adequate. On straight and level, it's not too fast, and when you pull up after running full throttle for a field length, it takes its time on the upline, but it doesn't stop. I'm going to guess, without doing the math, but just from feel, the prop speed of the 21 on this plane probably has the plane going about as fast as my setup on my 60" Edge. It just didn't feel like for it's size it was going fast... but it could be the 747 affect.

All in all, it's a sweet setup, and if we couldn't go to a 22" prop, I wouldn't have any complaints because it still has a really good power:weight. However, since we can go to a 22" prop... I can't wait!

Maybe a 21x12 would be a good candidate...

And as far as gas vs. glow vs. electric. Electric wins. Glow was cool, but it didn't have the power... but it had a nice built it smoke trail which was cool.. clean up: not so much.

Gas had decent power, I don't think it had more power... but I can't really say because when I flew it the engine wasn't running all that great and I couldn't put negative G's on it without the RPMs dipping dramatically.

Electric: Reliable, Powerful, no clean up...

--Tom K.
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Last edited by Tom K.; Nov 03, 2012 at 05:44 PM. Reason: Added the gas vs. glow vs. electric
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 05:39 PM
Irg
ol' yellow eyes is back
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United States, NY, Alfred
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pardon me if I missed it in all that info, or if it should be obvious by now, but how many cells?
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 05:44 PM
Facts, Logic, 3D
Tom K.'s Avatar
Florida
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Originally Posted by Irg View Post
pardon me if I missed it in all that info, or if it should be obvious by now, but how many cells?
10S.

--Tom K.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 05:45 PM
Not as Good as The Kid
Aeroplayin's Avatar
South Pasadena, FL
Joined Sep 2009
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The pitch speed between the 16x8 on the 60 with 6S with the 480Kv motor, and the 21x10 on the 78 with 10S on the 215Kv motor, calculates to only about a 4 mph difference with the 78 going faster. So you are right about them being about the same.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 05:48 PM
Irg
ol' yellow eyes is back
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United States, NY, Alfred
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Originally Posted by Tom K. View Post
10S.

--Tom K.
cool, thanks.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 05:50 PM
Yin & Yang
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United States, VA, Sterling
Joined Jul 2011
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Thanks Aeroplayin. I was looking at the hacker motors the other night for this size plane and thanks to your prop calc I have a question. That motor is rated at 2200watts / 63amps.. On 10s with a 22x10 your pulling over 2900 watts @ almost 80 amps. How does that work?
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 05:53 PM
Facts, Logic, 3D
Tom K.'s Avatar
Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
Hey Tom, nice video. Horizontal stab/elevator bag and stab tube, wow.

Who would have though a 70" plane was so much bigger than a 60"? Looking good.
I'm not sure if that's a typo or not, but it's the 78" not the 70". When I put this plane next to my 27% IMAC ship (Godfrey Extra 300) they look the same size! The fuses are about the same length but the Godfrey has another 7" of wingspan.

--Tom K.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 06:07 PM
Not as Good as The Kid
Aeroplayin's Avatar
South Pasadena, FL
Joined Sep 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty10 View Post
Thanks Aeroplayin. I was looking at the hacker motors the other night for this size plane and thanks to your prop calc I have a question. That motor is rated at 2200watts / 63amps.. On 10s with a 22x10 your pulling over 2900 watts @ almost 80 amps. How does that work?
The A60-16M is rated to 3000W on 10S but there are guys on the 78 thread that have over 700 flight on this motor recording over 3500W. I expect the 22 inch prop to be up around, and perhaps over this power level, and I'm not worried.

Frank took data off his logger and it was pretty much spot on to the PropEngine calcs.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 06:10 PM
can't buy vaporware
7oneWo1f's Avatar
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Opps, yep, 78"...that explains why it looks so much bigger.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 06:15 PM
Not as Good as The Kid
Aeroplayin's Avatar
South Pasadena, FL
Joined Sep 2009
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Also, as with my Q80 Hacker, the KvE of the Hacker motors are up around 85 to 86 percent. I have some KvE listing now for a few different types of motors and I should publish them on the calculations page.

The other thing is that we are getting different voltage sag values for different batteries... the calculator is fixed at 3.64v per cell, and we've seen 3.75 on some batteries, like Gens. I used to leave the voltage field as a variable, but decided to fix it where the higher Amp range would display as not to underestimate current.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 06:25 PM
Yin & Yang
Liberty10's Avatar
United States, VA, Sterling
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Not to doubt you Aeroplayin but what am I looking at here? These all show 2200 watts.. edit Ok I did find aero-model shows it as 3000 watts but the first pics are from the hacker web site
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Last edited by Liberty10; Nov 03, 2012 at 06:58 PM.
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Old Nov 03, 2012, 07:13 PM
Facts, Logic, 3D
Tom K.'s Avatar
Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty10 View Post
Not to doubt you Aeroplayin but what am I looking at here? These all show 2200 watts.. edit Ok I did find aero-model shows it as 3000 watts but the first pics are from the hacker web site
We bought it from Aero-Models and Frank was getting 3000 watts on the 20x13 and over 3600 watts on the 22x10 Xoar. If you have any doubts about the motor you can call Mike at Aero-Models.

--Tom K.
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