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Old Dec 18, 2010, 03:04 PM
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HK 600 (t-rex 600) built + Walkera RX2702V flybarless

Well, this is my new project, here is the spec for first:

HK 600 kit.
Added align torque tube.
Added align 3G head.
Radix flybarless CF main blades.
CC ice 100A ESC.
CC bec pro regulator.
JR Z9000S servo all around, powered separately at 5.3V on the cyclic and 6V for the tail (0.06s tail speed)
Hyperion 4025/890 motor.
2 X 4S lipo for 8S set-up.

I decided to install an rx2702V wich is supposedly to be the ultimate revolution in 3 axis gyro receiver, but... but... it appears to be full of bugs in the programmation, possibly unusable, at this stade I'm stuck and I don't think this receiver will work properly.

1:Here is the first bug I found, when you need to switch ''ELEV R.'' to allow the elevator gyro function to be reversed (reverse ELEV. stabilization) it is only the elevator servo itself wich is reversed and both ''PIT'' and ''AIL'' gyro still make the stabilization on the wrong direction, wich make the swashplate to slightly pitch UP/DOWN when the gyro moves, very bad.... fortunately it can be fixed mechanically in reversing ''PIT'' & ''AIL'' servo connector on the receiver and change some setting in the ''swashmix'' for a negative value, now all it's fine concerning the gyro and swashplate movement.

2:That RX ''need to be tunned'' What is this loll...? The end point need to be set in the RX according to the TX setting, crap..!! I tried everything, when I said everything, I tried all sort of possible travel in my TX, all sort of possible mixing % in the ''swasmix'' I spent over 3 hour trying all possible combination to set the end point in the RX without success, I always end up with the same problem, pitch is always fine at +10/-10, but cyclic movement of the swashplate become limited, no matter what input I give with the TX, the % of pitch is limited to a range of +10/-10..........

........Example: in a normal helicopter when you give full pitch you get ex: +10 on both the blade, now you add ex: Full forward ELEV or AIL. right, left, no matter, (previously set at 8) you will normally get + 18 on one blade and + 2 on the other, wich is not possible to reach with the RX2702V once the setting is done, with the end point correctly set for a +10/-10 motion, you will never get more than +10/-10 on any blade, no matter what input you give, Full pith with Full ELEV, or Full Ail, etc... the pitch never exceed 10 anywhere, making the swashplate become in a weird position when you try to give cyclic with full + or - throtlle/pitch, the only time the cyclic is correct for 8 is when the swashplate is at 0 (50% throttle).

Is there something to do to fix the problem...? I know the RX2702V is new, but is there someone anywhere with a solution....?

I can make a video of the setting process and you will see the result once the setting is done, it's funny..!!

Here some pic of the thing:
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Old Dec 18, 2010, 04:03 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
Well, this is my new project, here is the spec for first:

HK 600 kit.
Added align torque tube.
Added align 3G head.
Radix flybarless CF main blades.
CC ice 100A ESC.
CC bec pro regulator.
JR Z9000S servo all around, powered separately at 5.3V on the cyclic and 6V for the tail (0.06s tail speed)
Hyperion 4025/890 motor.
2 X 4S lipo for 8S set-up.

I decided to install an rx2702V wich is supposedly to be the ultimate revolution in 3 axis gyro receiver, but... but... it appears to be full of bugs in the programmation, possibly unusable, at this stade I'm stuck and I don't think this receiver will work properly.

1:Here is the first bug I found, when you need to switch ''ELEV R.'' to allow the elevator gyro function to be reversed (reverse ELEV. stabilization) it is only the elevator servo itself wich is reversed and both ''PIT'' and ''AIL'' gyro still make the stabilization on the wrong direction, wich make the swashplate to slightly pitch UP/DOWN when the gyro moves, very bad.... fortunately it can be fixed mechanically in reversing ''PIT'' & ''AIL'' servo connector on the receiver and change some setting in the ''swashmix'' for a negative value, now all it's fine concerning the gyro and swashplate movement.

2:That RX ''need to be tunned'' What is this loll...? The end point need to be set in the RX according to the TX setting, crap..!! I tried everything, when I said everything, I tried all sort of possible travel in my TX, all sort of possible mixing % in the ''swasmix'' I spent over 3 hour trying all possible combination to set the end point in the RX without success, I always end up with the same problem, pitch is always fine at +10/-10, but cyclic movement of the swashplate become limited, no matter what input I give with the TX, the % of pitch is limited to a range of +10/-10..........

........Example: in a normal helicopter when you give full pitch you get ex: +10 on both the blade, now you add ex: Full forward ELEV or AIL. right, left, no matter, (previously set at 8) you will normally get + 18 on one blade and + 2 on the other, wich is not possible to reach with the RX2702V once the setting is done, with the end point correctly set for a +10/-10 motion, you will never get more than +10/-10 on any blade, no matter what input you give, Full pith with Full ELEV, or Full Ail, etc... the pitch never exceed 10 anywhere, making the swashplate become in a weird position when you try to give cyclic with full + or - throtlle/pitch, the only time the cyclic is correct for 8 is when the swashplate is at 0 (50% throttle).

Is there something to do to fix the problem...? I know the RX2702V is new, but is there someone anywhere with a solution....?

I can make a video of the setting process and you will see the result once the setting is done, it's funny..!!

Here some pic of the thing:
Sounds like your servo travel maxes out. I have +/- 12 degrees pitch on my 4F200. My swash travel is 7.5 degrees. I can get full elev or ail at the pitch end points. My pitch is 43% on swash mixing. My elev and ail are at 16% and 15%. I used a longer servo arm to get more swash travel with less servo travel that way it doesn't max out. I do max out in full aileron/full pitch /full elev combined. But for my flying skill that is probably ok.
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Old Dec 18, 2010, 04:39 PM
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Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined May 2008
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No offense intended by why didn't you just buy an align 3g unit? These sell new on here for less than $150.
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Old Dec 18, 2010, 07:47 PM
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Joined Sep 2010
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I know fo align 3G but I want to let a try for the 2702V unit, and since I only have an 2801pro TX I wil have to buy a 2801 pro receiver to complete the 3G setup, in the end, it's close to 100$ more, but if it appears that the 2702V does not work I will go to the 3G or another system.

ri0grand: I found the problem, thats not as easy as described to set that RX for different helicopter, the end point setting in the RX have to match with double of travel from the TX.

To go through the setting process the % value for ELEV. & AIL in the swashmix must be the equivalent of the ''PIT'' value + AIL/ELEV value.

In short, if the PIT value is 50% to get +10/-10 pitch, and 45% for ELEV/AIL to get +8 cyclic, you have to put ELEV/AIL at 95% (50% + 45% = 95%) then go through the setting process then once it's done properly, you readjust for a correct cyclic in the swashmix, or with Dual rate.

My problem was to get +10/-10 I needed 70% PIT and 65% ELEV/AIL for cyclic, wich is equal to 70 + 65 = 135, 135% is needed for ELEV/AIL in swashmix before the setting process, but the maximum is 100%, I had to increase all the servo travel to 130% in TRVADJ to be able to lower the value in the swashmix, now with the TRVADJ at 130%, I only need 53% in the swashmix to get +10/-10 and 47% for ELEV/AIL, 53 + 47 = 100, then I put 100% ELEV, 100% AIL, 53% PIT, and after the setting process I readjusted the cyclic for 8 and it's perfect.

The new adjusted value in the swashmix are now 24% ELEV, 24% AIL, 53% PIT, like this it's right on the spot, but I dont have any extra travel if I want more cyclic, I will have to increase again TRVADJ.

The value can be different if I give it more travel mechanically with the horn/linkage, but the principle will be the same, X PIT + Y AIL = the value you have to use for ELEV/AIL in the swashmix before to go through the setting process.
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 01:01 AM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
I know fo align 3G but I want to let a try for the 2702V unit, and since I only have an 2801pro TX I wil have to buy a 2801 pro receiver to complete the 3G setup, in the end, it's close to 100$ more, but if it appears that the 2702V does not work I will go to the 3G or another system.

ri0grand: I found the problem, thats not as easy as described to set that RX for different helicopter, the end point setting in the RX have to match with double of travel from the TX.

To go through the setting process the % value for ELEV. & AIL in the swashmix must be the equivalent of the ''PIT'' value + AIL/ELEV value.

In short, if the PIT value is 50% to get +10/-10 pitch, and 45% for ELEV/AIL to get +8 cyclic, you have to put ELEV/AIL at 95% (50% + 45% = 95%) then go through the setting process then once it's done properly, you readjust for a correct cyclic in the swashmix, or with Dual rate.

My problem was to get +10/-10 I needed 70% PIT and 65% ELEV/AIL for cyclic, wich is equal to 70 + 65 = 135, 135% is needed for ELEV/AIL in swashmix before the setting process, but the maximum is 100%, I had to increase all the servo travel to 130% in TRVADJ to be able to lower the value in the swashmix, now with the TRVADJ at 130%, I only need 53% in the swashmix to get +10/-10 and 47% for ELEV/AIL, 53 + 47 = 100, then I put 100% ELEV, 100% AIL, 53% PIT, and after the setting process I readjusted the cyclic for 8 and it's perfect.

The new adjusted value in the swashmix are now 24% ELEV, 24% AIL, 53% PIT, like this it's right on the spot, but I dont have any extra travel if I want more cyclic, I will have to increase again TRVADJ.

The value can be different if I give it more travel mechanically with the horn/linkage, but the principle will be the same, X PIT + Y AIL = the value you have to use for ELEV/AIL in the swashmix before to go through the setting process.
I played around with my setup some and I can see you have done a good job of figuring out the proper set up procedure. The "manual" needs to have your info added. As you have correctly stated, you have to determine the swash mix % for PIT, ELE, and AIL first. Then add them up and reset the values for all those to the sum of those. Then go through the end point procedure as specified in the "manual". Then finally return the swash mix % to the values determined in the first step. For me it was PIT=-45%, AIL=20%, ELE=20%. I then used 85% for the setup procedure, and then back to -45/20/20 after the endpoint setup. This gave +/- 12 degrees of pitch and 8 degrees of swash movement. It worked perfectly.

Good work Martin!
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 09:20 AM
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USA, MO, West Plains
Joined Oct 2010
15 Posts
How does the receiver perform?

I have a 2702v that I got from wow to put on my T-Rex 450. Planning to install it and some digital servos after Christmas.
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 11:26 PM
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Joined Sep 2010
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It should work as well as a V450D01.

I don't fly my 600 yet and I don't expect too much in a 600 size heli, but maybee i will be surprise.
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 10:52 AM
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Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
2,481 Posts
Before you get too far into it, consider the current draw that your 600 is going to impose on the power bus of the rx2702V vs. what the other 3-axis gyro systems with a proper high power heli RX can support. It could result in the traces getting melted from the current demand and that can lead to a loss of power to the servos. I am sure that it can support the draw from a 450 (they supply it on one) and maybe even a light 500, but once you get up to the 600 in size you are now starting to draw higher amps though the system in order to feed the servos at, for instance, full pitch when doing a pitch pump or when stopping a decent with a full collective opposite stick movement. Before I built the T-Rex 700 E 3G, I had posted the RX that I had intended to install and that warning was given to me. I ended up installing an AR7100, using a separate 2000 mA battery supply (there is only one flight pack for the 700 so a much higher amperage RX/3G pack was not needed). Consider, as an example, using an AR7000 or AR7600, as they will be able to supply the power that the servos will demand. Take care.

Don
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
Before you get too far into it, consider the current draw that your 600 is going to impose on the power bus of the rx2702V vs. what the other 3-axis gyro systems with a proper high power heli RX can support. It could result in the traces getting melted from the current demand and that can lead to a loss of power to the servos. I am sure that it can support the draw from a 450 (they supply it on one) and maybe even a light 500, but once you get up to the 600 in size you are now starting to draw higher amps though the system in order to feed the servos at, for instance, full pitch when doing a pitch pump or when stopping a decent with a full collective opposite stick movement. Before I built the T-Rex 700 E 3G, I had posted the RX that I had intended to install and that warning was given to me. I ended up installing an AR7100, using a separate 2000 mA battery supply (there is only one flight pack for the 700 so a much higher amperage RX/3G pack was not needed). Consider, as an example, using an AR7000 or AR7600, as they will be able to supply the power that the servos will demand. Take care.

Don
If you had read my first post, I mentionned that the servo are powered separately, cyclic are powered at 5.3V with a CC BEC PRO and only the servo signal wire go to the RX, as for the tail servo, it's powered at 6volt from the main ESC, and again, only the signal wire to the RX, RX is powered also from the CC BEC PRO.
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 03:28 PM
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Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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Good luck.

Don
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 07:21 AM
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United States, FL, Ocala
Joined Jan 2010
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RX2702V setup with 2801pro

Hey Guys,
Just bought this rx and a walkera 30a esc to be used on my exi450. Does someone have a laymen setup for me? Wow supplied me with instructions. I followed them to the "T". Seems everything responds on bind, except i cant get motor to power up.

Thanks
Mark
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 11:57 AM
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Keyrigger , thanks, I will try to do my best to not cause a crash because of a bad set-up, however I can't promise anything.......

gabber865, the motor should work like on any other RX, there is nothing special to do with this RX to make work a motor.

The instructions provided from Wow is a 5 minutes photocopy of the original Walkera manual, wich is already not clear, those walkera instructions tell the programming steps but tell nothing about how to set it up properly, at the end I paid 20$ + more expensive for what I had to find myself..........


A good starting point is to first put -10/+10 to -12/+12 collective pitch depending on what you want, then -12/+12 cyclic pitch according from what I wrote above about the swashmix value, wich give the servo enough travel in any situation, then when you will fly your heli, you can start to lower the cyclic according on how fast you want it to flip/roll.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 04:11 AM
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Malaysia, Penang, Bayan Lepas
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@martin
I can't believe wow just ripped off the Walkera manual and consider their work. This kind of business attitude is WRONG!!!
BTW, I ordered one from Helipal. Hopefully I can set it up without crashing my 250
This is my first ever real FBL (I don't consider 4G6S as one), so any suggestion on settings? What's the "cyclic pitch" thing? I do understand collective pitch, but I've never setup my "cyclic pitch" on my flybarred 250...
Thanks in advance...
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:49 PM
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Powder Springs, GA
Joined Sep 2010
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In for the education (also considering a mildly modified HK-600 since they have had some time to "mature")
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Old Dec 29, 2010, 10:16 PM
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Malaysia, Penang, Bayan Lepas
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Martin,
Have you tried flying the 600? How well does the tail (and cyclics) hold? Videos would be GREAT!!!
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