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Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:01 PM
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Travis MCH's Avatar
United States, TX, New Braunfels
Joined May 2011
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I have never used the 130X blades. I use foamies because they seem to be the best combination of performance and stability, IMO. I can hover hands off upright and inverted with these blades. I can tell you that if a main shaft is bent, the smallest vibration will cause the shakes in the gyro. I have four helis, each with the RX 2622-V and they all fly very stable with the gyro pot at the 10:00 position. It won't go any higher or it gets the shakes.
I don't feel like the servos have anything to do with stability as long as none of them have the jitters (jumping action)
I think if your gyro is as low as it is you won't ever really get the intended benifits of the flybarless system. I was never a fan of the stock platic blades because they tend to make the heli fly too docile and slow to react. The foamies are just the oposite so I have my expo set around 25 on my Devo 8. It's taken a long time to get the tuning just right but I think all the work has paid off. Both my V120D02's and V120D05's fly very well now.

The only part I ever gave up on was the 6 axis gryro I tried for a short time.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:43 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis MCH View Post
I have never used the 130X blades. I use foamies because they seem to be the best combination of performance and stability, IMO. I can hover hands off upright and inverted with these blades. I can tell you that if a main shaft is bent, the smallest vibration will cause the shakes in the gyro. I have four helis, each with the RX 2622-V and they all fly very stable with the gyro pot at the 10:00 position. It won't go any higher or it gets the shakes.
I don't feel like the servos have anything to do with stability as long as none of them have the jitters (jumping action)
I think if your gyro is as low as it is you won't ever really get the intended benifits of the flybarless system. I was never a fan of the stock platic blades because they tend to make the heli fly too docile and slow to react. The foamies are just the oposite so I have my expo set around 25 on my Devo 8. It's taken a long time to get the tuning just right but I think all the work has paid off. Both my V120D02's and V120D05's fly very well now.

The only part I ever gave up on was the 6 axis gryro I tried for a short time.
For as much as the 120s crash, replacing foam blades would put me in the poor house. I can't spend all day tuning and working on my v120s that are not heavy enough to sustain velocity and stability, especially in the daily winds here. I literally crash almost every single time i fly them. Wait, let me rephrase that. I USED TO spend all day tuning and working on my 120s. It's a waste of time and after learning how to fly. They have done me no good in progressing in 3D past the basics of flips, rolls and loops. It's actually harder to do all of that on the 120s then any of my other helicopters. Usually because the motor bogs or they just dart off in 3D. Otherwise the wind pushes them around and adds to motor bog anyway. They gyros work, at best. Nothing spectacular. Hardly even at the "standard" normal mark. As far as the global gyro market gos. Basically Walkera gyros are probably a little better than having a flybar. Which is not saying much when even $50 gyros have piro compensation these days. The 120s just always eat dirt and can't keep up with me no matter what i do. Maybe when i have exactly precise pitch control the v120s can do 3D like a champ. But if you flick the pitch just a little too much more than the heli needs or can handle. The v120 is likely to end up in the dirt. Making it, in my opinion, a poor 3D trainer, except for the basics. Where as my 450 and X5 just fly. I oil the bearings.... Then i just FLY. 5 packs a day or more. They have all the power they need not to bog and take the wind. They don't crash unless i thumb them, which is very rare, or the only Walkera electronics left in my 450 locks me out. The good old 2702V. I'm ordering a beastX this weekend to replace that POS on at least one of the two 450s i have. Once thats done i should be able to piro better and have more stable 3D, like tick tocks and things. You have no idea how scary and annoying it is when the 2702V locks out and the motor rpms drop off.

Y-V450D01C - More Hurricanes! - 2702V Cut out @ 1:24 (4 min 52 sec)



So regardless of how nice these v120 size helicopters are. Regardless of how nice they are to learn how to fly and get into the basics of 3D. Besides the fact they are still a walkera at the end of the day. Cast all that nonsense aside. What i am still left with is out of the 6 helicopters i own. The v120 size has been the most maintenance, the most crashes, the hardest to keep in the air and over all.... I wouldn't loose sleep at all without them in my fleet. As long as i have the others. Some people don't have space to fly. That sucks! But i do, so it's not practical for me to put up with all the nonsense my micros have put me though when almost 90 flights later on my X5, i have not had to do anything but oil the bearings every 5-10 flights. Thats all. I'm hoping the V450 keeps running just as good from now on too. Otherwise the 120s are more or less on the back burner.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 05:00 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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V120D05 airframe
Stock ESC, using motor pins to connect, not soldered.
3 Axis Walkera 2622V (2801-pro version from D02S)
HP08-S, 16,500kv motor.
Custom fit & upgraded rotor head, main & feathering shaft from D02S
KDBB 130X main blades
Turnigy 0.95 Ah, 25C batteries

V120D05CS08 - 3D stress test with Turnigy packs #1 (7 min 21 sec)


V120D05CS08 - 3D stress test with Turnigy packs #2 (6 min 43 sec)



My latest flights.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 06:30 PM
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Travis MCH's Avatar
United States, TX, New Braunfels
Joined May 2011
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Integrity,

Good flying but still very wobbly compared to mine. I still think you should turn the gyro pot up to 10:00 position to get some more stability.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 02:42 AM
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Joined Feb 2013
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Awesome flight Integrity,

I am still struggling to get a grip on this little beast, last time i took it out to a park it crashed 5 times, while doing some quick turns.

I think its tail vertically wobbles quite a bit, the boom is very slightly bent (about 2 degress) could that be the reason?
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 02:46 AM
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Joined Feb 2013
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Also i am taking out my 1#A (a very old but capable heli) from the storeroom and try to get some good hands on. 300 size will give me some better stabality till i get a good hang
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by WhichHobbyStore View Post
Awesome flight Integrity,

I am still struggling to get a grip on this little beast, last time i took it out to a park it crashed 5 times, while doing some quick turns.

I think its tail vertically wobbles quite a bit, the boom is very slightly bent (about 2 degress) could that be the reason?
If the tail boom is bent a little you can probably bend it back pretty easily. With the factory walkera RX/Gyro (2615V) the heli does not fly as well as in my videos. The gyro does not hold the tail very good, especially using the stock motor. The tail ratio is too low too. Mine is using a 2622V from the 2801-pro version of the V120D02S. It's also using a V120D02S rotor head assembly. I don't know if your trying 3D or not. But don't expect too much from the V120d05 right out of the box. The last time i had tail wagging it ended up being the plastic tail pulley got the inside D hole rounded out and the tail shaft was intermittently slipping. Don't know if that helps or not.

The 1#A is pretty old. But i remember that DJFuji or someone really liked that heli. It's probably more capable and stable in flight than the D05.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:03 AM
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Oh! Sorry for not mentioning this, this is my new Alias (my previous alias was Dheeraj Juneja), I am the same guy you helped convert D05 to your custom D02s pro version. We opened a new website after which i created this new Alias.

So, the D05 is all peped up with OverSky 13800kv + V2622 2810pro version. But the tail wag seems to make the heli a lot less stable when doing some quick turns (i am still not doing 3D).
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by WhichHobbyStore View Post
Oh! Sorry for not mentioning this, this is my new Alias (my previous alias was Dheeraj Juneja), I am the same guy you helped convert D05 to your custom D02s pro version. We opened a new website after which i created this new Alias.

So, the D05 is all peped up with OverSky 13800kv + V2622 2810pro version. But the tail wag seems to make the heli a lot less stable when doing some quick turns (i am still not doing 3D).
Ahh, makes sense now.

Okay, so here are the main things to look at if your getting wagging. First, check all the mechanics for any "slop" or "play" loose in the pitch change assembly for the tail. A tiny bit is okay, but if something is wiggling around back there it can cause this issue. The tail belt being worn out or slipping at intervals could also cause this. Like i mentioned. The last time i had this wag on the D05, the gear or pulley on the tail shaft was stripped out in the hole the shaft goes though, so it was slipping. It was grabbing enough to hold the tail but it would wag around and kick out. Also having a bent tail boom could cause friction on the belt maybe. Just a thought. After all that, the tail servos are the next thing to look at. They go bad all the time, or just "jitter" around. You can notice it at bind up usually. Hope this helps you track down the issue.

You might double check for vibrations too. A good way is to take all the blades off and run the motor up. Take notice of any vibrations, or lack of. Then put the blades back on and spool it up again. See if the heli is running as smooth as without the blades on. Without seeing the heli in action or holding it here first hand. It's hard to diagnose.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:19 AM
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Joined Feb 2013
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[Then put the blades back on and spool it up again. See if the heli is running as smooth as without the blades on]

This is very important information, so it means that it should be as smooth as without the blades? Literally? As i can feel a LOT of vibrations with blades on.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by WhichHobbyStore View Post
[Then put the blades back on and spool it up again. See if the heli is running as smooth as without the blades on]

This is very important information, so it means that it should be as smooth as without the blades? Literally? As i can feel a LOT of vibrations with blades on.
It should be close to the same with or without the blades on. On a bigger heli. YES, there should be almost no additional vibes from adding the blades. Being a small heli, there will likely be some very small additional vibration with the blades on. You should also be sure to run the heli at "neutral" or zero pitch on the blades, for smooth running and no pitch created vibes or oscillations. But it should be pretty smooth or there can be abnormal gyro effects. Try with just the tail blades removed. Then with just the main blades. If you have a bad enough bend in a shaft. The vibe will sometimes show up with the blades off. But again, this heli is so small and light. On the D05 i often bend the little hub shafts that holds the blade grips on the tail shaft. Sometimes you can bend it back by hand, but the tail vibes around if it's bent. You should be able to hold the heli, spin it up and look at the tail shaft spinning. It should be still and not moving around much at all. You should see a "dot" in the middle of the shaft as it spins (optical illusion from spinning). Same thing with the main rotor head. It should not be moving around. There should be a still and defined "DOT" at the top of the rotor head. If the "Dot" is not there, or is moving or jumping around or vibrating, then you have something bent. Also, you can check the blade tracking on both the main blades AND the tail blades.

If you shoot some video it could be easier to diagnose. Because there will be some resonating vibration on this heli always i think. It's hard to tell you what is "too much" vibration though. Because again, it could just be something as simple as a bad tail servo.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 04:57 AM
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Thanks Integrity, tried removing the blades and spolling up, absolutly no vibes. There were vibes with blades, so i put up a new set of blades after balancing them and no i feel a very slight vibe when the heli spools up.

However, in air, the tail moves up and down, making the heli less stable.

I also checked the gyro settings on Rx, and it was quite low, so i moved it to 100% (at 100% there were unnecessary movements), so i backed it up a bit and now its smooth, however tail still moves up and down.

Checked the belt, and it seems ok, no slipping tooth and i can turn the tail blades and the main blades turn with it, so seems ok on that front.

Let me make a small video to show how the tail moves.

- Dheeraj
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by WhichHobbyStore View Post
Thanks Integrity, tried removing the blades and spolling up, absolutly no vibes. There were vibes with blades, so i put up a new set of blades after balancing them and no i feel a very slight vibe when the heli spools up.

However, in air, the tail moves up and down, making the heli less stable.

I also checked the gyro settings on Rx, and it was quite low, so i moved it to 100% (at 100% there were unnecessary movements), so i backed it up a bit and now its smooth, however tail still moves up and down.

Checked the belt, and it seems ok, no slipping tooth and i can turn the tail blades and the main blades turn with it, so seems ok on that front.

Let me make a small video to show how the tail moves.

- Dheeraj
I actually keep my tail belt so loose that when i turn the tail it will hardly turn the main rotor. It is still tight enough for the main rotor to turn the tail, but the friction and mass is too great for the tail to turn the main rotor, so it slips teeth. I can maybe get 1/4 turns or 1/2 turns sometimes. If i can get the speed up it will turn but with my motor and the general friction on this heli are higher on the main rotor side. So the mail rotor will always still turn the tail, it's not likely to slip very easily. But there is less friction the looser the belt is. I don't know if that is your problem or not. My heli has a slight wobble too, it's mostly from the gyro gain i think. I'm not sure what yours is from. Maybe the video will help. I'm sure you checked all the shafts? Also make sure your gyro is securely stuck down in one place, inside the jacket also. Thats all i can think of for now.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:39 PM
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V120D05CS08 - 3D with crash (4 min 30 sec)
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 12:00 AM
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Joined Feb 2013
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Hi,

Upon further investigation i find that there is a play in swash plate i.e. if i try to turn the blade's pitch by hand, i am able to make a difference of a few degrees easily. This could be a problem which may be causing the tail wobble?
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