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Old Jun 29, 2012, 05:51 PM
Crashing is my thing.
MayMayDay's Avatar
Canada, BC, Vancouver
Joined Mar 2012
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I am in need of some advice to improve my video quality right now with my stock whips. I'll be building some bluebeams once my connectors and cable arrive, but that is two weeks away.

My setup is described at the beginning of the video, and some pictures are at the end of the video. This video is shot in a cramped area, but I've flown this a couple blocks away in a baseball field and still had terrible range.

My system: http://www.securitycamera2000.com/pr...itter-Kit.html
Oh, and I've got a super simple mini osd as well, but that shouldn't make a difference.

Quadcopter 1st Video (8 min 50 sec)


And no, I didn't have my cellphone on me
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 05:56 PM
can't buy vaporware
7oneWo1f's Avatar
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Joined Nov 2011
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The photos of the setup occur at 8:18, but aren't detailed enough for me to offer any advice...though others may be able to see a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayMayDay View Post
I am in need of some advice to improve my video quality right now with my stock whips. I'll be building some bluebeams once my connectors and cable arrive, but that is two weeks away.

My setup is described at the beginning of the video, and some pictures are at the end of the video. This video is shot in a cramped area, but I've flown this a couple blocks away in a baseball field and still had terrible range.

My system: http://www.securitycamera2000.com/pr...itter-Kit.html
Oh, and I've got a super simple mini osd as well, but that shouldn't make a difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nan...ature=youtu.be

And no, I didn't have my cellphone on me
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 06:11 PM
Crashing is my thing.
MayMayDay's Avatar
Canada, BC, Vancouver
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N6145k View Post
The photos of the setup occur at 8:18, but aren't detailed enough for me to offer any advice...though others may be able to see a problem.
Here's two photos that may help a bit. Just annotated one of the ones from the video, the other is with the middle plate removed, but before I had all the vid equipment onboard.

Thanks again

*edit: can't really read that writing, sorry. Let me know if I need to make it bigger.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 06:52 PM
can't buy vaporware
7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayMayDay View Post
Here's two photos that may help a bit. Just annotated one of the ones from the video, the other is with the middle plate removed, but before I had all the vid equipment onboard.

Thanks again

*edit: can't really read that writing, sorry. Let me know if I need to make it bigger.
Cool. Anyway, I like a lot of it. One thing that really concerns me, but is probably unrelated to your problem, is the exposed motor bullet connectors. Get some shrink wrap or electrical tape and insulate those boys.

As far as your problem, it looks like you have enough room on your ESCs to loop the ESC to receiver 3 wire connector through a ferrite ring a few times. At worst, it will only cost you weight, but at best, it may improve RC performance. The ferrite ring used in this manner functions as a common mode choke--a low pass filter on signals that are common to the wires looped through the ring.

It looks like you know what you're doing. I'd need to hold/see it, or at least get an accurate schematic of how you route your power to help further. If you have the length on your ESC to motor wires, you might also want to twist them. Twisting them will reduce EMI in general, and can't hurt (assuming you insulate your bullet connectors).

If your ESCs have BECs, of course you probably cannot connect them together (e.g., through your receiver), unless they were specifically designed for power sharing or have other features to prevent problems associated with connecting power supplies in parallel.

As for your 2.4 GHz antennas, I would get a coffee straw, cut it to length, to hold your antennas stable and perpendicular. This probably won't help with video quality, but it should help with RC. It looks like you have a satellite going under those motor wires. To the extent possible, and after twisting the motor wires, keep the two groups of wires as far from each other as you can given the constraints.

I don't know if they make these, but if you can find a low pass filter that blocks harmonics above 1.5 GHz or so, I would put that between your vTX and your vTX antenna. Again, this probably won't help the quality of the video (and, depending on the attenuation at your vTX frequency, may degrade it slightly), but it will help reduce harmonics that might interfere with your 2.4 GHz receiver.

Make sure the power and ground to your vTX transmitter is twisted. Make sure the ground/signal from your camera to your vTX is also twisted. If you run power, video, and ground as a group, twist all three of them.

On the ground, keep your 2.4 GHz Tx away from your 1.3 GHz vRX. On your vRX, get a low pass filter, or, better yet, modify your Tx to have a high pass filter (say above 1.5 GHz).

Anyway, this advice comes from somebody who has not yet built an FPV rig...so take it with a grain of salt.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 07:36 PM
Crashing is my thing.
MayMayDay's Avatar
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Joined Mar 2012
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Thanks for the awesome response 45k. I'll try answer each paragraph in the quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N6145k View Post
Cool. Anyway, I like a lot of it. One thing that really concerns me, but is probably unrelated to your problem, is the exposed motor bullet connectors. Get some shrink wrap or electrical tape and insulate those boys.
-Will do ASAP

As far as your problem, it looks like you have enough room on your ESCs to loop the ESC to receiver 3 wire connector through a ferrite ring a few times. At worst, it will only cost you weight, but at best, it may improve RC performance. The ferrite ring used in this manner functions as a common mode choke--a low pass filter on signals that are common to the wires looped through the ring.
-I did not realize chokes were used on on the 3 wire connectors. Is it still useful if I have disconnected the BECs and have a FC in between? I was thinking about putting a choke on the video cable, but there shouldn't be much of an improvement as the FPV system runs on its own lipo

It looks like you know what you're doing. I'd need to hold/see it, or at least get an accurate schematic of how you route your power to help further. If you have the length on your ESC to motor wires, you might also want to twist them. Twisting them will reduce EMI in general, and can't hurt (assuming you insulate your bullet connectors).
-I've attached another painted picture below that outlines the layout.

If your ESCs have BECs, of course you probably cannot connect them together (e.g., through your receiver), unless they were specifically designed for power sharing or have other features to prevent problems associated with connecting power supplies in parallel.
-BECs are completely disconnected. The FC (Naza) taps directly to the battery, through a little module (which I guess is a BEC itself).

As for your 2.4 GHz antennas, I would get a coffee straw, cut it to length, to hold your antennas stable and perpendicular. This probably won't help with video quality, but it should help with RC. It looks like you have a satellite going under those motor wires. To the extent possible, and after twisting the motor wires, keep the two groups of wires as far from each other as you can given the constraints.
-Will try to separate the two, but it is a bit tight in that arm.

I don't know if they make these, but if you can find a low pass filter that blocks harmonics above 1.5 GHz or so, I would put that between your vTX and your vTX antenna. Again, this probably won't help the quality of the video (and, depending on the attenuation at your vTX frequency, may degrade it slightly), but it will help reduce harmonics that might interfere with your 2.4 GHz receiver.
-That is an interesting idea. I probably will never be doing long range to the point of interference between the two systems, but I'll definitely look into that.

Make sure the power and ground to your vTX transmitter is twisted. Make sure the ground/signal from your camera to your vTX is also twisted. If you run power, video, and ground as a group, twist all three of them.
-The cables came untwisted, but all the connectors were correct, so I don't want to mutilate them just for twist. How about some twirl instead?

On the ground, keep your 2.4 GHz Tx away from your 1.3 GHz vRX. On your vRX, get a low pass filter, or, better yet, modify your Tx to have a high pass filter (say above 1.5 GHz).
-How far is far? Would it be better for it to be up higher on a tripod or something? Right now I just rest it on the ground and point the antenna up.

Anyway, this advice comes from somebody who has not yet built an FPV rig...so take it with a grain of salt.
-This is some great advice, thanks again for the lengthy reply.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 09:34 PM
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Will answer more later, but yeah, twirl, like the three wire cable between the RX and satellite RX. Don't braid them.

The choke would be useful as a common mode filter for 2,3,4 or more wires. As long as all of the wires go through the ferite ring in the same direction, and all of the return current paths go through a wire included in the bundle.

As for the distance apart on rcTX and vRX, experiment. If you don't see any difference, you're barking up the wrong tree.

How many batteries to do you have? How are you doing your grounding/return currents?

Does your video camera and vTX have a common ground? Are you doing OSD? Is it also on a common ground? You want your ground, which also functions as a return current path, to have a small current loop area. E.g., if you have a video signal from your camera to your vTX, you want to run a ground in parallel with it, so that the signal's return current path doesn't enclose a large return current area. You have to be careful here, though, because you also don't want unnecessary ground loops. That is why a schematic would be good.

Like I said, I haven't started wiring my FPV system up yet, but meantime, these are the things I plan to do. Other people may have better and more FPV-experienced advice.
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Old Jun 30, 2012, 04:50 PM
airplanes r made from aluminum
wilem's Avatar
United States, SC, Darlington
Joined Jul 2009
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seems like the HK VTxs biggest problem is the connector for the antenna. last night i simply removed the core of the unit and replace it with the core from a radio shack connector. It was dead simple and now i can move fwd with the antenna construction.

pushed out the old one with a hot soldering rion. be quick but not so quick you pull the foil run off the circuit board. ( make sure your antenna is removed..i did this photo post op.




pull the core out of donor connector and push it in the new connector and solder the center pin and youre good to go.. I did have to file down the threaded portion some so the center pin would reach.



just take a pair of needle nose pliers and pull the center pin and insulator out.. it comes out very easily with little resistance. install it in the connector and solder it in.


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Last edited by wilem; Jun 30, 2012 at 07:56 PM.
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Old Jul 01, 2012, 01:52 AM
can't buy vaporware
7oneWo1f's Avatar
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What was the problem?
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Old Jul 01, 2012, 08:24 AM
airplanes r made from aluminum
wilem's Avatar
United States, SC, Darlington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N6145k View Post
What was the problem?
if you are responding to me the problem was not being able to find a connector to make into an antenna for this male connector. so i gave it a sex change.
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Old Jul 01, 2012, 02:49 PM
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So i just ordered a 600TVL from SecurityCamera2000. Can anyone suggest me what video TX / RX and battery i should get now? Thanks.
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Old Jul 01, 2012, 03:28 PM
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United States, HI, Kailua
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCrap View Post
So i just ordered a 600TVL from SecurityCamera2000. Can anyone suggest me what video TX / RX and battery i should get now? Thanks.
I was right where you are a few months ago. I ordered the Racewood set from DronesVision. I've been very happy with it, and DronesVision's service is top notch. I was using 72mhz, and had too many issues with glitching, so I finally gave up and ordered a long range UHF RC system (DragonLink). I had purchased an expensive 72 mhz RX that could failsafe. So that RC RX is useless to me now. I just discovered that my new UHF system causes interference with my Racewood vRX. Now I need to buy a Lawmate or RMRC vRX that is filtered better. So I wasted more money by trying to save money in the beginning. I bought the Nova OSD, and now I am upgrading it to a DOSD.
My experience tells me to buy quality up front and you'll save money over all. I was told this advice right here, but I didn't listen 'cuz I'm cheap.
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Old Jul 01, 2012, 03:29 PM
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Canada, ON, Carleton Place
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCrap View Post
So i just ordered a 600TVL from SecurityCamera2000. Can anyone suggest me what video TX / RX and battery i should get now? Thanks.
Look at http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ to see available gear.
- pick freq you want based on your area and radio gear.
i.e. if radio is 2.4g do not use 2.4g for VTx
If you pick 1.3g, you also need low pass filter for Tx.
I picked 600mw 5.8g Tx and 5.8g Rx..
and 5.8 GHz Bluebeam Whip Antenna Set (RHCP.
Not sure about video display yet. Looks like most use LCD screen instead of goggles.
I am going to borrow both and try them before purchase.
This is for LOS FPV as a start..
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Old Jul 01, 2012, 03:57 PM
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United States, MD
Joined May 2012
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I think i will go with 5.8ghz, because i am using 2.4ghz radio gear.
So looking on the ReadyMadeRC Site i found this.
Standard Whip Antennas (I will probably make IB Crazy Cloverleaf ones or something, but later)
Camera (None, cause i ordered the 600TVL)
TX (FatShark 100mW 5.8Ghz)
Rx - Uno5800
Batteries 1100mAh RMRC Batteries for Tx / Rx
Total on that is $113 - I got this from choosing the 5.8ghz kit and removing / adding some options. Like i said i'm not sure about the vTx and vRx.

OSD I will worry about later, i will only do LOS for now.
For the video display i will use a USB capture card and then i will display it on my laptop, for now anyways. If that dosen't work i can just use one of my old monitors / tvs or something.
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Old Jul 01, 2012, 04:58 PM
FPV in Hawaii
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United States, HI, Kailua
Joined Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCrap View Post
I think i will go with 5.8ghz, because i am using 2.4ghz radio gear.
So looking on the ReadyMadeRC Site i found this.
Standard Whip Antennas (I will probably make IB Crazy Cloverleaf ones or something, but later)
Camera (None, cause i ordered the 600TVL)
TX (FatShark 100mW 5.8Ghz)
Rx - Uno5800
Batteries 1100mAh RMRC Batteries for Tx / Rx
Total on that is $113 - I got this from choosing the 5.8ghz kit and removing / adding some options. Like i said i'm not sure about the vTx and vRx.

OSD I will worry about later, i will only do LOS for now.
For the video display i will use a USB capture card and then i will display it on my laptop, for now anyways. If that dosen't work i can just use one of my old monitors / tvs or something.
Don't even bother with standard antennas, they are miserable. first thing you need to do is upgrade the antennas.
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Old Jul 01, 2012, 05:12 PM
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United States, MD
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iskess View Post
Don't even bother with standard antennas, they are miserable. first thing you need to do is upgrade the antennas.
Alright, should i do the bluebeam whip for 50 bucks more?
Is the vTx and vRx i picked good / decent?
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