Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 06:45 PM
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United States, WI, Eau Claire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshy View Post
It's keeping it legal.
It already is legal. See post above. There's a difference between buying and operating. You do not need a license to buy an antenna.
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 07:04 PM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by banzi28 View Post
How does it improve customer service? He wants to restrict his business to the point of elitism (I'd buy the reasoning for legal requirements, but when he added about people that didn't read the document at the beginning of this thread as a reason to restrict, that just felt wrong to me). If he wants to stand behind the legal requirement, that's fine but if you choose not to sell something to someone because they didn't read a doc file on an internet forum, you're going to lose a lot of business and regardless of what you might think, a business does need to grow.

The difference here is between buying and operating. Alex is selling to buyers - he's not operating it for them. He has zero liability. All he's doing by restricting sales to only people who have a callsign is reducing his potential market - and for what?
Well it's his business. You can cry about it and object all you want but in the
end he's the one owning and operating it and you're not. So I don't get why
you continue to argue when in the end the decision is not yours at all.

The buyers WILL operate it. No one buys FPV gear to fly FPV planes and
then just leaves it sitting around. And this, the critical piece, is what you're
missing; we're a fairly niche hobby compared to the rest of RC (growing
everyday admittedly), such that our fates are interlinked to each other.
Sure, no one can take him to court over selling transmitters to people with
out licenses. But it's only going to come back around to bite him in the ass
later when people get fed up with all these unregulated video transmitters
being used by FPVers. The last thing this hobby needs is more
government attention. Your strategy may be great for profit, but that is
something that IBCrazy obviously does not care about compared to helping the
FPV community.

Blues
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 07:25 PM
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I think I.B. should, and I'm sure he will, run his business as he see's fit. If people don't like the way he does things, then start your own business and run it the way you want. If people are to lazy to take the exam, which is a lot easier now than when I took the exam, then you don't need to be in this hobby. Stop telling him what he should do and leave him alone.

People bashing him before had him leave here, and this hobby needs people like him that are willing and more than glad to help newbies. To bad there aren't more people like him than people standing back and criticize for wanting to tell people to use the equipment he sell's LEGALLY.



Off the soap box now.
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banzi28 View Post
There's no such thing. There is no store that sells weapons of mass destructions. Piloting an FPV craft without a technican's license is not going to kill untold millions in a nuclear inferno. Extremely bad attempt at sensationalism.
I thought it was a actually a really good example of argument with hyperbole, which is acceptable if the issue is one of degree, which I believe it is. I'm saying it's obvious that we would want to restrict the sale of WMDs, and since UAVs pose a public safety risk in the same way, although of lesser degree, it should be equally obvious that restricting the sale of UAV equipment is a reasonable idea. I didn't say it was a good idea, just that it's reasonable. I added that it's a defensible right of a business as well, as an additional argument in favor of businesses being allowed to restrict who their customers are. Note that I'm going at the larger issue here, not strictly UAV stuff, not strictly Alex, but the basic right of businesses to restrict their customer base. In addition to being a right, it may also be wise in many cases - that is the whole of my argument, do you disagree with that?

Quote:
How does it improve customer service?
Because you serve fewer customers, you can serve them better. Duh.

Quote:
You either grow, adapt or you fail. Ask Borders.
Ask hundreds of little shop owners all over Europe whose businesses have not grown for hundreds of years. The idea that you grow or you fail is an American idea, and frankly I think it's a wrong idea (not just a bad one) and is the source of a lot of grief in society today. Infinite greed is not good, and it's certainly not a requirement.

Quote:
The difference here is between buying and operating. Alex is selling to buyers - he's not operating it for them. He has zero liability. All he's doing by restricting sales to only people who have a callsign is reducing his potential market - and for what?
I realize there's no legal liability, but what about the moral question? If I'm a gun owner and I sell someone a gun and I didn't do a background check and it turns out they are a known serial killer everyone is looking for, then regardless of the legal issue, how do you think I might feel about that? It's the same deal if I sell someone a plane and it kills someone or disrupts an important transmission of some kind. That's why I brought up my dad and the marriage deal - it doesn't hurt him if he marries people and they get divorced later, but he feels bad about it and I would too.
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 10:21 PM
FPV Browncoat
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United States, CO, Parker
Joined Mar 2011
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Okay, so if you guys are done discussing Alex's business *cough* I have a real question about FPV.

Just got my FPV Hawk Sky finished setting up, and now that I'm back on 72mhz, I'm trying to figure out the best routing for the antenna. I did a test flight today with the antenna running out of the side of the nose, where my Corona receiver is, and out to the end of the right wing. This setup was very cumbersome though since I have to tape up the antenna every time I put the wings on, and though I didn't even have the FPV transmitter turned on during the flight, I still experienced a good amount of glitching pretty close in. Either that location was just bad and had a lot of interference (it was a new field I found because my regular one was in use), or all the various bends and stuff in the antenna reduced its range.

So if possible, I'd prefer to have the antenna running along the fuselage and off the end of the tail. This way I could have it permanently taped there, and I could also extend the antenna to half wave without worrying about it getting caught in the prop, as I'm pretty sure it would if dangling from the wingtip. However, this makes the antenna run right under the 800mw 1.2ghz VTX.

I did some comparison ground range testing with the antenna in both positions and the VTX both on and off, and it didn't actually seem to make much difference interference wise. With the antenna either on the wing or tail, the VTX reduced the range some, and by approximately equal amounts. With the VTX off, I could still get a spotty signal (the red light on the receiver was on by flickering frequently) about 1,400 feet away through my neighborhood. With the VTX on, it reduced the range to around 700-800 feet before the light began flickering too much (this is still through a pretty dense neighborhood). My theory is that having the antenna on the tail doesn't really increase interference much, since even though it runs a lot closer to the VTX, it's below the VTX antenna in its null zone, whereas on the wing it's further but runs right through the center of the VTX antenna's radiation pattern. Is this accurate at all?

What do you guys think? Would it be a huge mistake to run the RC antenna down the tail, going under the VTX, even though I couldn't tell much difference testing it? The way it seems now, even if it might increase interference some, the benefit gained from being able to extend the antenna would compensate for that. Is that right?

[Here is a picture of the plane so you can see what I'm talking about.]
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 10:23 PM
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I am totally confused about who's who right now.

I will say this in closing. If all you can do to counter an argument is say "Duh" then, well. Yeah. Sorry.

Lastly, I really hope Alex does stop selling to anyone without a license. I really REALLY do. I meant that completely and honestly.
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 07:15 AM
Living in the south of France
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Joined Aug 2011
437 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pureguava View Post
Sorry i posted twice - did not see this thread !

hi i have the following set up :

Attachment 4243001

Platform : Parkzone trojan

TX: 1.3G 800mW transmitter - BEVRC
low pass filter

RC Tx : Spektrum DX8 (newest version) with AR6200 RX

First ever flight all was going great for about 3 minutes and then at about 200m away i lost all control and dived straight into ground from about 100m up.

Had crystal clear video link right into the ground!!

questions:

1.Is the most LIKELY reason for my knock down the video Tx interfering with the RC Rx?

2. Should this system work with each other? i.e. is the 1.3G Tx with a filter compatible with my 2.4G spektrum system?

3. is the video Tx too powerful for the close proximity of the rc Rx - they were about 10cm away?

Thanks for all input,

Al.
i have two BEVRC transmitters on 1.3 mhz, 400mw, 2 Futaba radios on 41.100 mhz and 2.4 giga, No problems at all, 'but' when i put a new receiver FRSKY, TFR8S all went tits up !, i lost the radio at less than 100 meters out at about 20 meters up,,,,

the second time with another new receiver i lost the radio at about 200 meters out and 50 meters high,,,
back at my workshop i noticed a buzz from the elevator servo which then burned out in front of me,,, i tried a cheap 'diamond' servo that lasted about 10 seconds, i then verified that the receiver was programed for Analogical servos, all was OK, i checked it with my next choice a Hitec 82mg 'all was well' i then fitted it in it's new home installing it with a servo tester then down to the model field, wing on, FPV on and working, radio on and hooked up the lipo battery 3S 13000mah buzzzz one Hitec burnt out servo, so if anyone wants a couple of receivers Futaba compatible,,,,,,,,,,
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 08:08 AM
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Amherst, VA
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banzi28 View Post
I think that's a little excessive, don't you? All that will happen is people will go to a vendor that doesn't require them to submit to this kind of scrutiny so you'll lose their business..
Bingo! - You got the point. I don't want the business of people who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Let another vendor deal with them. I dedicate my time to research and development of this hobby. I don't have the time to deal with irritating people who think they can own you by use of theior credit card. I DO have time for those who are willing to take the time required to be successful in this hobby.

No HAM license, no phone number. Simple as that. You can send Emails all day long. My site has two full tutorial documents you can read that are more than enough to get you started. If you need help, send a polite Email and I'll get back to you when I get the opportunity. Send me an irritating Email and I'll delete it. Simple as that.

-Alex
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBCrazy View Post
Bingo! - You got the point. I don't want the business of people who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Let another vendor deal with them. I dedicate my time to research and development of this hobby. I don't have the time to deal with irritating people who think they can own you by use of theior credit card. I DO have time for those who are willing to take the time required to be successful in this hobby.

No HAM license, no phone number. Simple as that. You can send Emails all day long. My site has two full tutorial documents you can read that are more than enough to get you started. If you need help, send a polite Email and I'll get back to you when I get the opportunity. Send me an irritating Email and I'll delete it. Simple as that.

-Alex

+1 totally agree.
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 09:48 AM
Night flier
United Kingdom, England, Bromyard
Joined Mar 2008
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subscribed!!
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by banzi28 View Post
Awesome. Will you be making an official announcement that you will no longer be selling to anyone without a callsign?
Why don't you give it a rest, it's none of your business how he chooses to run his business.
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 10:44 AM
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Joined Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracks View Post
I have read the FCC guidelines that also state these frequencies can be used, though I have not talked to anyone at the FCC and I didn't see anything about maximum transmitter power in the USA.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...47cfr97.13.htm

You can broadcast from a airplane (non repeater) only with the pilots permission. There are also maximum gain restrictions on antennas.

In us, non license, 1280mhz is 200mw max & 900mhz is 150mw max. It's 70mw max for 433mhz.
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by banzi28 View Post
I am totally confused about who's who right now.

I will say this in closing. If all you can do to counter an argument is say "Duh" then, well. Yeah. Sorry.

Lastly, I really hope Alex does stop selling to anyone without a license. I really REALLY do. I meant that completely and honestly.
Actually I put a complete sentence explaining my position, then I said DUH... it wasn't the whole argument, so why is it all you saw?
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banzi28 View Post
How does it improve customer service? He wants to restrict his business to the point of elitism (I'd buy the reasoning for legal requirements, but when he added about people that didn't read the document at the beginning of this thread as a reason to restrict, that just felt wrong to me). If he wants to stand behind the legal requirement, that's fine but if you choose not to sell something to someone because they didn't read a doc file on an internet forum, you're going to lose a lot of business and regardless of what you might think, a business does need to grow.
Let me put it to you this way:

I have done more research and provided more help to this hobby in one month than most people do in their lifetime. In this research, I publish EVERYTHING open to the public in a very easy to read and understand format. When people ask me questions on my research, I answer them fully and quickly despite the fact that I get NOTHING in return for this. People do not own my service. It's free. Why? Because my knowledge and passion is a blessing from God and I wish to share it. The business is His blessing for my obedience to His word.

My business model is to help the hobbyist be successful in this hobby, NOT to give irritating people everything they want.

Thus, respect me and the hobby, and I will respect you. Don't and I ignore you. You sir, appear to be the type of customer I do not want and who will fly FPV illegally.

-Alex
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by prelator View Post
Okay, so if you guys are done discussing Alex's business *cough* I have a real question about FPV.

Just got my FPV Hawk Sky finished setting up, and now that I'm back on 72mhz, I'm trying to figure out the best routing for the antenna. I did a test flight today with the antenna running out of the side of the nose, where my Corona receiver is, and out to the end of the right wing. This setup was very cumbersome though since I have to tape up the antenna every time I put the wings on, and though I didn't even have the FPV transmitter turned on during the flight, I still experienced a good amount of glitching pretty close in. Either that location was just bad and had a lot of interference (it was a new field I found because my regular one was in use), or all the various bends and stuff in the antenna reduced its range.

So if possible, I'd prefer to have the antenna running along the fuselage and off the end of the tail. This way I could have it permanently taped there, and I could also extend the antenna to half wave without worrying about it getting caught in the prop, as I'm pretty sure it would if dangling from the wingtip. However, this makes the antenna run right under the 800mw 1.2ghz VTX.

I did some comparison ground range testing with the antenna in both positions and the VTX both on and off, and it didn't actually seem to make much difference interference wise. With the antenna either on the wing or tail, the VTX reduced the range some, and by approximately equal amounts. With the VTX off, I could still get a spotty signal (the red light on the receiver was on by flickering frequently) about 1,400 feet away through my neighborhood. With the VTX on, it reduced the range to around 700-800 feet before the light began flickering too much (this is still through a pretty dense neighborhood). My theory is that having the antenna on the tail doesn't really increase interference much, since even though it runs a lot closer to the VTX, it's below the VTX antenna in its null zone, whereas on the wing it's further but runs right through the center of the VTX antenna's radiation pattern. Is this accurate at all?

What do you guys think? Would it be a huge mistake to run the RC antenna down the tail, going under the VTX, even though I couldn't tell much difference testing it? The way it seems now, even if it might increase interference some, the benefit gained from being able to extend the antenna would compensate for that. Is that right?

[Here is a picture of the plane so you can see what I'm talking about.]
From the picture I see one glowing problem: The Fresnel zone is blocked. It is blocked by the battery, motor, ESC, and the camera! This is going to cause horrible reception. Mount it on the wing. Get that antenna away from every metallic object you can.

If weight is an issue, build a dipole or Vee antenna (it's in my blog and really easy). Run a run of coaxial cable out and put it on the wingtip. This will not only clear the Fresnel zone (thus giving you better video) but will get it farther away from the receiver antenna giving you better control performance. If you move your TX antenna to the wing, you can mount your 72MHz antenna down the fuselage. Just keep it straight.

-Alex
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