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Old Jan 12, 2011, 09:55 PM
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USA, NC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2011
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Ok. So, my paypal account is setup, which I have never used before but seems pretty straight forward. I verified my card and marked it as the primary card. Then went back to FSone and tried again to order the sim.. Keeps kicking me back saying that it can't process the payment using my paypal account at this time, and that I should purchase through another process.. Any ideas?
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 08:10 AM
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USA, NC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2011
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Yes! (arm pump) .. Got it to go through this morning. So I'm officially waiting for my FSOne Sim to arrive. I can't wait! I picked up a Sukhoi su-26xp recently and I've only been flyin for a month or so, so I haven't even taken it out of the box because I don't want to break it. My Micro T-28 and Champ have been my trainers so far.. I'm hoping this sim will point me in the right direction. Thanks again MSelig for all the help.

Chas
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 09:45 AM
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United States, PA, Pittsburgh
Joined Oct 2006
569 Posts
im an owner of fsone v1 and want to try the v2 but first i want to see the new planes (i cant find a list of new planes on v2)
I also wanted to point out that the reason i stop using the v1 sim is because there was no new planes and after a while it gets boring, so pls keep a healthy influx of new planes and youll have me as a customer again

thxs in advance
jaas
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 07:13 PM
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United States, ME, Stonington
Joined Aug 2005
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VSOne HP/Thrust Model

One of the ways I use FSOne is to predict model performance using measured thrust data from a particular power system I'm interested in.
The input parameter for the power system in FSO is horsepower. I have measured thrust. (I've been tempted to make a test rig that will measure hp. It wouldn't be that hard but I'm more interested in thrust directly so I can calculate the thrust to weight ratio of my airplane). In order to get horsepower I scale a model in FSO so it's weight (mass) is equal the measured thrust of my power system. I then fly it on the sim and adjust the horsepower input until the aircraft will hover in equilibrium at WOT, neither gaining or loosing altitude. I then adjust the sim model to reflect the actual predicted/measured weight of the aircraft and fly it to see how it flies.

I use the Hanger 9 Edge 540 model in FSO to do this prediction. I noticed that FSOV1 and FSOV2 give very different results in hp input to hover the same weight model. For an 18.5 lb. model it takes 2.4hp to hover in equilibrium in FSOV2 and 3.2hp for FSOV1. That's better than a 25% difference. Both FSO versions are using the T502 thrust model and all the other inputs such as wingspan, wing area, prop diameter, etc are the same. In V1 I've scaled down the 33% Edge and in V2 I've started with the 27% Edge.

For my purpose the difference in hp input between the two FSO versions is academic because I'm looking for the relative difference in the thrust output of the power system and the weight of the model, but for those who want to take a manufacturer's horsepower specification and plug it into FSO to see how an A/C flies they may not get an accurate result.

Does anyone have any reassurance on which version of FSO is accurate or whether this kind of study is even a viable thing to do on FSOne?

diceco
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 08:11 PM
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diceco -
I'm not following all of this, but did you press the "/" on the keypad when you were flying? It's going to show the Max Hp that you have set for the model.
FYI - Prop model, efficiency, thrust did not change from v1 to v2.
I think it is really hard to get 'steady state' data in a realtime sim. So your measurements could easily be off 25% and that has nothing to do with the sim.
But as you explore this, keep in mind nothing changed in this area from v1 to v2.
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 11:22 PM
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United States, ME, Stonington
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Re: Thrust Model

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSelig View Post
diceco -
I'm not following all of this, but did you press the "/" on the keypad when you were flying? It's going to show the Max Hp that you have set for the model.
FYI - Prop model, efficiency, thrust did not change from v1 to v2.
I think it is really hard to get 'steady state' data in a realtime sim. So your measurements could easily be off 25% and that has nothing to do with the sim.
But as you explore this, keep in mind nothing changed in this area from v1 to v2.
I got the hp reading from the scale wizard readout just after the model loaded. I haven't tried the "/" key but I will.

"I think it is really hard to get 'steady state' data in a realtime sim. So your measurements could easily be off 25% and that has nothing to do with the sim."

I don't know what you mean here. Do you mean that during the operation of the FSO sim at wide open throttle static conditions (at hover with steady WOT) the average calculated power system output on the sim won't be what is input as the maximum horsepower in the scaling menu?

Sorry if this is too much of an academic question! I suppose I should just be happy being able to make the simulated airplane fly like the real model!

diceco
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceco View Post
.... Sorry if this is too much of an academic question! ....
Can't say I've ever said that to a professor

You said you started with different scale versions of the Edge in v1 and v2. I understand that you regardless scaled them both to a specific weight and size, but did you look for example whether the prop sizes are exactly the same after scaling in v1 and v2? You can increase how long all those specs appear on the screen in the options.

From what I understand, you're calculating pounds of thrust for a given hp (?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by diceco View Post
"I think it is really hard to get 'steady state' data in a realtime sim. So your measurements could easily be off 25% and that has nothing to do with the sim."

I don't know what you mean here. Do you mean that during the operation of the FSO sim at wide open throttle static conditions (at hover with steady WOT) the average calculated power system output on the sim won't be what is input as the maximum horsepower in the scaling menu?
What I understood that to mean is that in a realtime sim, it's hard to get actual equilibrium conditions which you can base a definitive pounds of thrust on.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 11:40 AM
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Am I understanding that you want to know the HP output of your real life model, so you're doing computer equivalents in FSOne to help estimate what the HP value is and then assuming that's close to the real HP of your physical airplane?
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaas75 View Post
im an owner of fsone v1 and want to try the v2 but first i want to see the new planes (i cant find a list of new planes on v2)
I also wanted to point out that the reason i stop using the v1 sim is because there was no new planes and after a while it gets boring, so pls keep a healthy influx of new planes and youll have me as a customer again

thxs in advance
jaas
I am also considering getting v2 and cant find the list of new planes on the fsone website? Will somebody that has recieved there copy of v2 tell us what new planes and helis are included please?
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 05:37 PM
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Re: FSO Thrust Model

I have measured the thrust of my power system. Since FSO does not accept thrust as an input in the scaling menus I'm using the measured thrust to get the correlation between thrust and horsepower in FSO. I do this by making a simulated model of the same mass as my measured power system thrust. I then adjust the input hp in FSO so that in a perfect stationary hover condition the plane neither rises or falls. It's the horse power input it takes to make the thrust required to hold up the mass of the aircraft against gravity. Thus I get, at WOT, the correlation between hp and thrust on the simulation.

I think the scaling of power in FSO does not work correctly. It seems that the choice of the engine/motor and prop in the "propulsion" tab overrides the scaling input. For example, in V2 if I change the default Mejzlik 25x12 3 blade prop for the DA-50 gas engine to a Mejzlik 30x12 3 blade, and change nothing else, I get an unbelievable performance increase of the simulated aircraft even though the scaling wizard still reports the same 2.4 horsepower input for the power system. Obviously 2.4 hp isn't going to turn a 30x12 prop let alone allow the engine to develop a huge increase in horsepower.

Also, I did an experiment with just changing the engine/motor specified and nothing else. Starting with a DA-100 the scaling wizard reported:

DA-100 2.4hp
DA-50 3.2hp
GT-80 1.8hp
Hacker 50XL 2.0hp

The simulated Edge540's performance roughly followed the power changes indicated by the scaling wizard but all the while I had not changed the input specifying 2.4 max horsepower and prop size as 20 inches.

Thanks for all your comments.

diceco
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 06:00 PM
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United States, CO, Littleton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetfanatix View Post
I am also considering getting v2 and cant find the list of new planes on the fsone website? Will somebody that has recieved there copy of v2 tell us what new planes and helis are included please?
jetfanatix, the new planes are comming. If you look at the Features and Release Notes on the web site you will see what the exact changes were for the 2.0.0 release. They did add some pre-scaled versions of the existing models in the 2.0.0 release. Following are a couple statements from the Release Notes about Aircraft.

Free Aircraft – Many high-quality aircraft are in the works. The new version 2 supports these free downloads from www.fsone.com. Among the first new airplanes will be the 35% scale Hangar 9 Extra 260.

Aircraft – Version 2 has over 40 stock aircraft. This new version bundles in the version 1 Hangar Pack for free. No more Hangar Packs to buy! Leader of the pack – The Scaling Wizard™ by FS One turns any airplane into any size, physics included automatically. The number of airplanes is virtually limitless.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 06:56 PM
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Joined Jan 2011
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I am sorry but before I lay out 130bucks for this sim is it too much to ask what planes come with it? Your seriously not telling me it comes with the v1 planes are you?
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceco View Post
<snip>
I think the scaling of power in FSO does not work correctly. It seems that the choice of the engine/motor and prop in the "propulsion" tab overrides the scaling input. For example, in V2 if I change the default Mejzlik 25x12 3 blade prop for the DA-50 gas engine to a Mejzlik 30x12 3 blade, and change nothing else, I get an unbelievable performance increase of the simulated aircraft even though the scaling wizard still reports the same 2.4 horsepower input for the power system. Obviously 2.4 hp isn't going to turn a 30x12 prop let alone allow the engine to develop a huge increase in horsepower.
<snip>
I have found that there is a "garbage-IN-garbage-OUT" aspect to it when overriding the scaling wizard. And you can override pretty much anything the scaling wizard does (from outside the scaling wizard options). You can tell it, "you MUST turn a 30x12 prop", and it will assume that it's mechanicaly possible for the engine to do so and faithfully show what the performance of a 30x12 prop would be assuming that were possible.

ed: I've also found on a few occasions that if you start over riding stuff and then decide again that you want the scaling wizard to do everything instead afterall, that it's better to start over with a fresh model.

ed#2: Just realized I left something out. If you don't want a result like diceco is describing when scaling a plane, stick to the options within the two Scaling sections.
.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 07:10 PM
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Joined May 2008
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jetfanatix,
v2 installation DVD comes with the v1 planes plus the Hangar Pack planes. Michael has said that the new planes are in the works and that all new planes will be free downloads. He has talked about that in this thread. Specifically I recall him mentioning that an Extra 260 and Yak 54 will be among the first new ones.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 07:16 PM
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Thanks for clearing that up for me Aerosapien. I am still kinda confused though. I paid something like $230 for fsone v1 and $30 or $40 for hangar pack one and now I am to understand that v2 is only a physics update and nothing more?
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