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Old Dec 10, 2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by camilleg View Post
Dear Jack (diceco) and others of course,

Formalizing what it means to pass a pylon, or to cut a pylon, is trickier than I expected. (We're in good company: Mario Kart famously let you win a 3-lap race by scooting back and forth across the start line 3 times!)

Right now a cut is determined like this: at the upcoming pylon, divide the ground into four quarter-planes. If the aircraft enters the quarter-plane that's past the pylon and inside the pylon, that's called a cut.

Clearly this is simplistic: if you get lost and wander around (whoops, high rates, 500 feet high, lost track of where I am), you might inadvertently enter that quadrant before regaining your bearings.

But no matter what extra constraints I doodle on napkins, they seem vulnerable to Marioesque cheating. Can you think of anything that I can't?

How does a real-world judge decide when the aircraft is "close" to the pylon, i.e., when to start thinking about measuring cut vs pass?
I posed this question on the EF1 forum here and encouraged them to join the discussion. Thanks for working on this!

diceco
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Simple for a human.....I realize that coding it is not so easy.
From the NMPRA website. AMA pylon rules. "A turn is legitimate (i.e., there is no cut) if any part of the aircraft goes outside and around the pylon. If there is any doubt about a possible cut, the pilot should be given the benefit of the doubt."
Richard
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:35 PM
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Pylon Racing Cut Definition

It sounds to me, based on a discussion on the EF1 forum, the pylon cut rule, as far as FSOne programing is concerned, should be handled as a boundary issue. Using the boundaries set by the line-of-site line formed by the cut judge stations and the pylons, if an a/c enters into the volume set by that boundary plane it is considered a fair "rounding" of the pylon. This means the a/c need not actually go "around" the pylon.

I would think this would be an easier programming nut to swallow (although I might very well be wrong!) In fact am I correct that the two pylon "game" on FSOne works this way already? I would think the three pylon course could be configured too using the pylon judge station and pylon positions defined by the diagram for the three pylon course.

What do you-all think?

diceco
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 03:02 PM
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To revisit the Mario Kart issue from the opposite end, now I think it would be cheating if FS One called a cut based on observations unavailable to a real-world judge!

Like how in mid-1990's dungeon-shooter games, ogres could see you through the walls.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:18 PM
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United States, IL, Champaign
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Originally Posted by jlloyd1995 View Post
I hear Chris Hinson (owner of EF) is a very nice guy. Maybe he would have some parts and try to work with you.

Here is his RC G handle: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=27972

Here is the website: http://www.extremeflightrc.com/html/contact.html

P.S. thanks for the consideration.
Going to check this out now. All efforts before were on finishing up the BD-5J jet which is now in the FSOne.com downloads area. I think it's a really cool airplane.
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Last edited by MSelig; Dec 15, 2012 at 08:00 PM.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MSelig View Post
All efforts before were on finishing up the BD-5J jet which is now in the FSOne.com downloads area. I think it's a really cool airplane.
It IS a nice airplane. One thing I noticed though, it does not automatic reset after a crash if the "indestructible aircraft" choice is checked. I'm not sure if this is by design or an omission. It seems like the other planes on the sim do auto reset with the indestructible choice.

Thanks for the new plane!

diceco
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by diceco View Post
It IS a nice airplane. One thing I noticed though, it does not automatic reset after a crash if the "indestructible aircraft" choice is checked. I'm not sure if this is by design or an omission. It seems like the other planes on the sim do auto reset with the indestructible choice.

Thanks for the new plane!

diceco
Glad you like it! What's interesting is to snap the airplane and enter a spin. It has a hands-off-the-sticks spin that oscillates/gyrates. The full-scale version has a 'stick-free' spin (which is hands off but the stick is free to move). Here's an interesting read about how to get out of the spin:http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepBD-5.html (search for 'spin'). The full scale version in the sim behaves like described in this PIREP.

The auto reset w/ 'indestructible' set - You are right! It is behaving differently from the prop-driven airplanes. We'll have to check the code here. What's happening w/ the prop airplanes is that while they are 'indestructible,' w/ that setting checked, the prop will break off. And it is the prop breaking off that triggers the auto reset to happen. But with this jet there is no prop.

Back to prop-driven airplanes - I'm wondering why the prop can break off when the airplane is set to be 'indestructible' ... So this will go into our bug list. But before we fix anything, the question we'll have to answer is what's the definition of an 'indestructible' airplane (the prop should not break off?).

Michael
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:38 PM
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Oh, wait ... there's more to look at here. I forgot about the 'indestructible' prop setting / checkbox. I did not have that checked before. So again ... this is a project to sort out: props vs jets.

I have hunch that the g-load setting required to break the jet engine is high. So if you smash the airplane real hard, it will break the jet engine and then reset. My guess is that you were not hitting hard enough to break the jet engine and then auto reset.

Michael
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MSelig View Post
Oh, wait ... there's more to look at here. I forgot about the 'indestructible' prop setting / checkbox. I did not have that checked before. So again ... this is a project to sort out: props vs jets.

I have hunch that the g-load setting required to break the jet engine is high. So if you smash the airplane real hard, it will break the jet engine and then reset. My guess is that you were not hitting hard enough to break the jet engine and then auto reset.

Michael
I would not normally need an indestructible aircraft but for pylon racing I've souped up a Funtana so it will go a little over 100 mph (which is the approx. speed of an EF1 racer). The wings come right off it when I pull the g's on a pylon turn! When I loaded the BD-5 the indestructible A/C was checked which is how I discovered the problem.

diceco
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MSelig View Post
Going to check this out now. All efforts before were on finishing up the BD-5J jet which is now in the FSOne.com downloads area. I think it's a really cool airplane.
Looking foreword to it!
That BD-5J is a lot of fun. I was messing around with making the full scale version stall and than snap into an auto rotation. Kind of fun trying to recover it before hitting the ground.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:12 AM
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fsone vs. windows 8

Hope I'm not interrupting a topic here but I'm running out of ideas to save my sim.
I had to buy a new computer due to a complete crash of my old one. I loaded my FSone V1 and hangar pack one into windows 8. Everything went ok until I tried to run the program. Out of about 50 attempts to start the program only one worked and it even let me update the hangar pack within the intro screen. But once I shut the program down it would not load again. I have tried using the compatibility trouble shooter within properties and it was during a repeated attempt within the trouble shooter that the program worked. All other attempts lead to a flash of a black screen and a windows message "FS one-Precision RC Flight Simulator has stopped working. A problem caused the program to stop working correctly. windows will now close the program and notify you if there is a solution available.
I have contacted FSone for help but they don't have any ideas and Microsoft told me that it's windows 8 is not to blame and only the program creater can help me. The sim worked great on windows xp and I have tried using that setting to start it in windows 8.
If it is a matter of upgrading my sim to V2 in order to make it work, so be it. I just want to be sure that someone out there has one or the other working with windows 8 before I invest further.

Thanks for taking the time to read and for any help you can give.

A.G.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:21 PM
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You're running Version 1: When you say "black screen" flashes, this is the solution:
http://www.fsone.com/q001259/

I know people are running Version 2 on Windows 8.

As for Version 1, it's over 6 yrs old and written before Windows 8 was even envisioned .... so at some point (maybe now) that old version might stop working as technology marches on.

Michael
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:30 PM
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United States, IL, Champaign
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlloyd1995 View Post
Looking foreword to it!
That BD-5J is a lot of fun. I was messing around with making the full scale version stall and than snap into an auto rotation. Kind of fun trying to recover it before hitting the ground.
Someone just sent me this recent article from AOPA about the BD-5J:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi..._microjet.html
and
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/article...-bond-jet.html
(has video at bottom).

Besides the spin, it also has a noticeable accelerated stall - flying fast, pull high g's, and the wing will bobble. If you hold it there, it can snap and spin. But if you release, it will self-correct immediately. Obviously this 'feature' is not something to explore in real full scale!

Michael
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 07:43 AM
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The Black Screen Flash is seriously ticking me off too! I have been running FS One v1 on my Gateway All-In-One running a Mobile Intel 4 Series Express Chipset Family display adapter for 3 years and I had the issue once before. I wish I could remember what I did to remedy it. I recently installed Windows 8 over the Windows 7 it came with and it worked fine for about a week and now it's doing the "black screen flash" again. I called Horizon and all they could tell me is that I'm in uncharted territory.

I won't give up just yet because I love the sim and have been using it since it came out way back when and it's on it's third computer. As far as I'm concerned....it's the most realistic! I've has two versions of Real Flight (the latest being 4.5) and I sold them both because they were just gathering dust!
If anyone figures this out, lemme know. I did the driver updates....driver rollbacks, yadda, yadda, yadda.....NOTHING!!!
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Torotim View Post
The Black Screen Flash is seriously ticking me off too! I have been running FS One v1 on my Gateway All-In-One running a Mobile Intel 4 Series Express Chipset Family display adapter for 3 years and I had the issue once before. I wish I could remember what I did to remedy it. I recently installed Windows 8 over the Windows 7 it came with and it worked fine for about a week and now it's doing the "black screen flash" again. I called Horizon and all they could tell me is that I'm in uncharted territory.

I won't give up just yet because I love the sim and have been using it since it came out way back when and it's on it's third computer. As far as I'm concerned....it's the most realistic! I've has two versions of Real Flight (the latest being 4.5) and I sold them both because they were just gathering dust!
If anyone figures this out, lemme know. I did the driver updates....driver rollbacks, yadda, yadda, yadda.....NOTHING!!!
Despite what Horizon said, FS One V1 on Windows 8 is actually not uncharted. People are running FS One V1/V2 on Windows 8. When you mention 'drivers', I assume you're talking about graphics card drivers. If you're running something like nVidia or ATI, then those drivers should fully support OpenGL for the new Windows 8. If you're running some other graphics chipset, then you can hope that the maker will update those drivers to fully support OpenGL on Windows 8 (sooner rather than later). As long as you're seeing the black flashing screen, you can at least be sure that it's graphics card drivers that are not completely supporting OpenGL.

Michael
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