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Old Dec 13, 2010, 12:47 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
6,924 Posts
A Wing is Born.......

Well, I'm not sure about born but it was dragged screaming into this world and is now mostly done
Pete - letting you have some stuff for your column is the least I can do after the muttering that included your name this morning.......Last night, I'd added all the hard points for the struttery (I want to make the wing removable) and when checking the aileron detail I found you'd made the outboard strut locations in the wrong place - a quick check of the plan - some idiot had epoxied them onto the wrong fat rib With your good name cleared and some nifty knife work, they are now in the right spot

The hard points will accept a 16swg wire (similar to the plan) but which has a small metal tag soldered to it to be screwed to the wing. The BUSA SPAD does exactly this and seemsto work well.

The ailerons had the 4mm CF torque tubes CAed into semi-holes cut in the ail. LE with a brass tube and a simple jig. (I've been watching Hammered's techniques too much...) I'm still not happy with the tubes flexibility but can add a wire core if needed. The slot at the fuselage end still needs to be cut after I draw a diagram of how the linkage will fit. The outer ends of the ail. are supported by a Robart hinge, embedded in balsa blocks - I can JUST bend the torque tube enough to get it in place after covering.

A zillion sub-ribs were hand cut and CAed in place. They are a bit fragile as they are only supported at the rear by a small dedicated spar - but I made lots of spares!

After a good sanding, joint checking and general inspection, the wing is done and I can move right along...

Pat
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Old Dec 13, 2010, 01:44 PM
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halfastrut's Avatar
Canada, ON, Fergus
Joined Oct 2008
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Looks good Pat, I really like the scale control. Thats one big wing.

Pat
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Old Dec 13, 2010, 10:34 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
6,924 Posts
Actual building has slowed a little while I grapple with some changes that require some thinking (ouch). I sketched out where the aileron push rods come through the fuselage and at what angle, then scaled the ail. horn and where it seems to sit, then drew some lines showing where the pushrods will be and cut some holes in the CS for the horns.

The 4mm CF torque tube is not good enough - it twists rather a lot so I'll try epoxying some piano wire down the centre (about 2mm) and see if that is better. That will give me something better to fix the horns on to as well using a couple of collets. The dummy horn shown is from 1/16 ply - should be slightly thicker for scale looks - I may clad it with thin bass and sand to an oval section.

Pat
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 11:17 AM
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halfastrut's Avatar
Canada, ON, Fergus
Joined Oct 2008
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Hi Pat

looks good. Piano wire will probably do it,as will the brass cladding on the horn , good ideas! Ah nuts, just noticed......now I have to go out and buy a white board.

Pat
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 02:58 PM
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Melbourne, Australia
Joined Mar 2009
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Quote:
The 4mm CF torque tube is not good enough - it twists rather a lot ...
It twists??? I would not have expected that.

Quote:
Ah nuts, just noticed......now I have to go out and buy a white board.
I like the plastic storage tubs.

Hugh
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 09:30 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
6,924 Posts
Hugh - the CF tube twisted quite a lot - the ailerons are over 3" wide and it was easy to move them 1/2" with the horn end held firm I epoxied a length of 3/32 music wire (I still call it piano wire!) up the whole tube length and now I can move it maybe an 1/8 or so.

The steel wire gave me a chance to fix the horns better as well. I made two horns from brass sheet and soldered a 3/32 hole collar to each side. The brass was then clad with 1mm ply, epoxied in place and rounded off. Once the correct angle is established I could grind a small flat on the shaft or just tighten the screws and put a drop of Loctite on everything. Once the hinges are glued in, the horns will be impossible to remove without minor surgery.......

The wing is now finished apart from covering and assembly so I guess the fuselage needs some pondering.......or I may cover the wing as a diversion

Pat
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Last edited by Pat Lynch; Dec 14, 2010 at 09:49 PM.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 06:52 AM
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United States, TX, Sweetwater
Joined Mar 2005
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Here's a bit of help:

THe A-I's purchased by the U.S. Army Air Service were used as purchased from the French. They served as advanced trainers. Ergo, you would use the French camo scheme, with the U.S. roundels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsok View Post
If I may ask a question out of ignorance... is this the same as what others call the AI ( aye - eye ) model?

I'm seeing conflicting information as to which is correct ( if any )... and since I'm trying to research what the AEF's color scheme was... I figure knowing the proper model name may also help in that research.

Thanks..

Randy
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 01:14 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
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United States, OR, Fairview
Joined Jul 2006
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Just to toss in a bit of extra nonsense regarding the markings of "surplus" foreign WWI aircraft: I'd done a small bit of research into markings for Fokker D-VIIs, and it appears a good number retained the German crosses even while in US use. I was actually trying to find markings/schemes for surplus D-VIIs as employed by the USMC...

James
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 05:07 PM
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United States, OK, Norman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by challenger_i View Post
Here's a bit of help:

THe A-I's purchased by the U.S. Army Air Service were used as purchased from the French. They served as advanced trainers. Ergo, you would use the French camo scheme, with the U.S. roundels.
Thanks challenger_i ....

That is what several of us has also speculated...

I think it's probably best to leave this build thread alone and out of our speculations and any further info would probably be best posted in my thread here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1353075 which to this point is all speculation on the subject of the schemes... I've actually started looking at any scheme used at that time on other planes as well as looking through all pics of planes at certain airfields just in case it wasn't cross referenced.

Randy
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 10:47 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
6,924 Posts
This build will slower for a while - nothing to do with Christmas - just that hand-cutting the parts for the round fuselage is a slow, laborious process. I love it With each former being slighly smaller than its friends, plus me modifying all of them to suit different wood and internal arrangements, I am redesigning 'on the fly' and cutting each one as I need it!

The redesign part is due to slots needing to be different than the enlarged parts show as I am using 1/8 balsa in the upsized model for the formers aft of the cockpit - same wood as Pete's smaller plan shows. The stringers are not the scaled-up size, I'm using normal ply for the firewall instead of liteply etc, etc... Also involving some head-scratching is clearing the cockpit area for a scal-ish look and getting servos where they are least obvious - we'll see how it pans out......

Back to head-scratching and balsa bashing...

Pat
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Last edited by Pat Lynch; Dec 15, 2010 at 10:53 PM.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 11:37 PM
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Albuquerque, NM USA
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Pat,

You sure know how to have a good time Also a testament as to why we won't "scale" cut files.

charlie
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 05:33 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
6,924 Posts
Yeah Charlie - I'd considered making new cut files but the time taken to modify Pete's drawings, re-extract the changed components and prepare cut-files would have been greater than the build time

Shown here is a small start on the upper fuselage shell. The forward 'box' is much as designed except the rear (cockpit) section will be framed with 4mm sq. bass. The various formers have been modified to suit. This is to allow a realistic cockpit area where the frames, stringers and canvas can bee seen from inside. Just more work really.....

The other change is the top forward gun deck - I want to vac form that. The shape around the cockpit opening, above the instrument panel and forward to the cowl is quite complex so I'll carve it to the right shape and attempt some vac-forming.

The keel parts that the fuselage is built on, have been left at 1/16" rather than scaled. This is so the finished keel thickness will be 1/8 when the halves are brought together and will match the stringer thickness - again, visible through the cockpit. Stupid I know but it's MY model ........

Pat (watching Oz lose cricket against the Brits - again)
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 06:09 AM
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Nederland, Overijssel, Hengelo
Joined Sep 2009
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Very inspiring wing, thanks for the insight

Jaap
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 09:33 AM
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Pat,

If they are big enough, soft drink bottles make good plastic parts. I have had good luck with canopies and other parts made from them. And easy to form simple shapes.

Yep, I have to get back on one of my other designs. If just making one for me I'd just cut the parts by hand. But, I have to go back in and redraw several parts so they can be cut. Oh well.

charlie
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 04:27 PM
Veni Vidi Volavi
Sterling, VA
Joined Jan 2002
2,550 Posts
Pat

Greetings, hope all is well down your way. Since summer is starting please send some nice warm weather our way if possible!!

Interesting project, looks like she is going together well. Always have had a bit of a soft spot for the WWI parasols.

Looks like some interesting wire bendery on all those cabane and brace struts. Make sure to lay in a good supply of wire!!

Hope the design and build goes well.

Hope you and the family have a safe and peaceful Holiday Season.


Brian Allen

Veni Vidi Volavi

I came I saw I flew
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