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Old Dec 11, 2010, 06:33 PM
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Lnagel's Avatar
Moab, Utah, USA
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I would think that since the letter I is the Roman numeral for the arabic numeral 1 that either designation would be correct. It is equivalent to calling a Fokker D-VII a Fokker D-7. But then if Pat does it in Italian colors then it probably should be AI. After all, when in Rome...

Randy, I'm fairly certain that the AEF used the standard French camouflage whith the American roundals.

Larry
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 07:35 PM
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Australia, NSW, Goulburn
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Randy - I'm very happy to discuss this sort of historical background - as for the 'I' being a Roman '1' maybe, but the MS AI book also talks of MS L, LA, P, AF, AI, AC etc......... Googling A1 gives plenty of hits too. The French Memorial Flight site calls it an AI - a successor to the AC and AF. The version I am making will be a Morane Saulnier AI, MS 29 C1 (two guns) Also sometimes called an MS AI XXIX! Well, that's acording to two sources - maybe Wikileak can give me the truth..........

Pat
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 07:44 PM
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I had the same designation issue with this one. I refer to it as the AI because at that time M-S was using letters. The M-S V became the AC which became the AI, so, that is how I refer to it. Due to the I commonly being used as the numeral 1 for WWI airplanes it is frequently referred to as the A1. And, I do not claim that A1 is not correct, it may very well be the intent of the factory that it is the A1 with a Roman numeral I.

There is not much information on them at all. I found just faint references to the US versions and never saw a scheme for one, but, I suspect it was one of three: the factory camo scheme (common on French planes of WWI), the all grey, or all OD green. Roundels were iffy in those days, usually out on the wings, but, sometimes moved in closer, and the star was beginning to show up. I also suspect they were all the type 29 with the twin guns and 160hp (200hp?) engine, but, they may have been shipped without guns too.

charlie
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 07:55 PM
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I was just about to correct Larry about the scheme that was mentioned as being selected... It was the French version and not Italian.... I was also going to add that being a two gunner that it was the MoS 29 but I now see you already had that info.... not surprising.

I do suspect that it is AI ( eye ) and not a Roman numeral since all of the other Morane-Saulnier's were lettered designations.

Quote:
- maybe Wikileak can give me the truth..........
lmao
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 08:29 PM
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That's what I get for making assumptions (the emphasis on the first three letters of the last word). I had assumed that the MS designations followed the same pattern as the SPAD designations such as SPAD VII and SPAD XIII. I now see the error of my ways.

Anyway, I'll be following the build with interest.

Larry
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 08:42 PM
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Pat,

I'm not sure where my head was at on my last post... I had planned to share a photo I found of the MS logo that, if you wished, could be used for a template. This isn't an uncommon one as I found it in several of the searches I performed looking into the AEF scheme...

Randy
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 09:31 PM
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I looked up some original French factory drawings - and yes AI it certainly is and given the other lettering sequences - not Roman. Whew
Thanks for the Logo Randy - I need to get a brass etching system going as the machine I am replicating has brass MS on each side of the cowl. I also need to finish my Va-form box as I want to make the gun cover/hump from plastic - also the domed wheel covers.......

Another interesting area is the cockpit. It is so simple, it wouldn't entail too much work. Peter's design uses a strong box section from the rear of the cockpit forward so I may modify that in the cockpit zone. The AI used a steel frame with wooden formers to round it out and the painted steel is quite visible.

The wing is joined and the CS cut-out area fitted - just glueing up the spar brace with aliphatic before shaping and epoxying it to the main spars.

The aileron torque tubes will be 4mm OD CF tube running in al tube bearings. Other aileron hinges will be Robart hinge-points.

More pics soon

Pat
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 10:34 PM
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Pat,

I'd also noticed they used brass on the scheme you are modeling... which is why I mentioned using the image I posted as a template instead of a decal. I suspect the image could be edited to look like brass... but getting a good metal look is tough on a computer.

Have you considered using just brass leaf over some substrate instead? It seemed to be the easiest way when I was thinking about that step for my friend if he chooses to have a 3D raised logo.

Oh... before I go forgetting again... I'm not certain if the AI model used the same data plate as the P model... nor am I certain of its location if it did... but I've attached another pic of the data plate I found for a P model just in case its also a handy resource...

Randy
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 11:10 PM
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Canada, ON, Fergus
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Hi Pat

Just noticed the thread, did'nt take you long to get going on this one. If you need any pics, I've a ton of them.

Pat
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 11:18 PM
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Thanks for droppin' in Pat - you'd better take an interest as it was your model that made me look again at the AI I've got a fair number of pictures - but a really detailed 3-view would be great. Some basic ones out there but few show internal detail etc.

Randy - my version has several plates on it which I have pictures of. I guess that stuff will be wa------y down the track! But your image will be filed.....

The wing halves have the spar-brace epoxied and clamped while I look at a an easy way to cut and fit about 50 sub ribs.

Pat
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Last edited by Pat Lynch; Dec 11, 2010 at 11:42 PM.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 11:20 PM
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Heres a few you might like,
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Old Dec 12, 2010, 01:00 AM
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Thanks Pat. The aileron torque tubes were fitted after the wing CS was sorted out. Pete's smaller plan filled the CS cutout area with block or laminated balsa but as I wanted to incorporate the ail. cranks and torque tubes, mine has a 3/32 Liteply base and some solid balsa to round off later.
The torque tubes are 4mm OD CF tube running in aluminium tube bearings. I can now work out where they need to fit into the ailerons.
The main spar is joined by a 1/8 ply brace with a triangular liteply fill piece - much as the plan shows.
Next will be the strut hard-points and sub ribs...

Pat
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Last edited by Pat Lynch; Dec 12, 2010 at 01:24 AM.
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Old Dec 12, 2010, 02:18 AM
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B. e. a. u. t. i. iffle. sensational. georgeous.

oneson1
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Old Dec 12, 2010, 03:45 AM
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Norfolk, England
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Okay, when I drew it up, I'm sure I drew a MS A1 because I think that's how the three views were labelled. I don't see how you can discount the possibility of a Roman I, since other types do use both letters and numbers. However,I just have a vague idea that the AI was a rounded off Type L with more struts.

Pete
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Old Dec 12, 2010, 05:27 PM
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Pat,
Of course mate, you do realise that if you are emulating hammerd, and supersizing my design, you are under the same constraints. In other words, whilst you may have escaped the dreaded prototype build, I still expect photos and notes for the column. Please and thankyou very kindly.

Pete
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