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Old Dec 07, 2010, 03:31 PM
I hate waiting for parts
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Question
Ammo boxes for LiPo storage

Thought I would post this in a new thread, as I posted it as a question in another thread and it got drowned out by other responses. My question is this: Why is an ammo can a popular choice to store LiPo batteries?. Are they supposed to be fireproof or able to contain the fire of an ignited LiPo? They seem to be sturdy and most advertise they are waterproof, but are they strong enough to contain a LiPo fire, especially multiple batteries?
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 04:04 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Many post on this and yes many do use them. Why,because they are cheap and readily available. Is it a good idea ,IMO no. LiPolys stored in a sealed container become a bomb if they should happen to go into thermal run away.

Some have vented these and there are many video s of Lipolys being set off in these in web videos.

Charles
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 05:01 PM
I hate waiting for parts
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Thanks for the reply Charles. I was asking because I store my LiPos in my house because my workshop, athough insulated, isn't regulated temperature-wise unless I'm in there. I feel safe enough with the LiPo packs in the house, as they are just sitting there in storage, not being charged or discharged. If a vented ammo can would at least contain an extremely-unlikely-but-possible spontaneous LiPo fire, that's cheap insurance. I will surf YouTube for videos to see if it would fit my needs. Thanks!
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 05:39 PM
Space Coast USA
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For videos of lipo containment devices, go to http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287041

Scroll down to post #2, Videos of Lipo Containment Tests"
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 05:47 PM
Space Coast USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Thanks for the reply Charles. I was asking because I store my LiPos in my house because my workshop, athough insulated, isn't regulated temperature-wise unless I'm in there. I feel safe enough with the LiPo packs in the house, as they are just sitting there in storage, not being charged or discharged. If a vented ammo can would at least contain an extremely-unlikely-but-possible spontaneous LiPo fire, that's cheap insurance. I will surf YouTube for videos to see if it would fit my needs. Thanks!
Quote:
If a vented ammo can would at least contain an extremely-unlikely-but-possible spontaneous LiPo fire, that's cheap insurance
That says it all...some people can't grasp that idea.

Videos of lipo fire contaiment devices can be found in post#2 under "Videos of Lipo Containment Devices"
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287041
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Thanks for the reply Charles. I was asking because I store my LiPos in my house because my workshop, athough insulated, isn't regulated temperature-wise unless I'm in there. I feel safe enough with the LiPo packs in the house, as they are just sitting there in storage, not being charged or discharged. If a vented ammo can would at least contain an extremely-unlikely-but-possible spontaneous LiPo fire, that's cheap insurance. I will surf YouTube for videos to see if it would fit my needs. Thanks!
Quote:
If a vented ammo can would at least contain an extremely-unlikely-but-possible spontaneous LiPo fire, that's cheap insurance
That says it all...some people just can't grasp that idea, they keep looking for reasons not to take precautions.
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 06:35 PM
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Thanks for the links Hoppy. Guess I should have done a Search before posting. I watched those videos of Utah Flyers and that's good information. I think for my purpose, a vented ammo box or two for storage/transport is what the doctor ordered. I will line the boxes with something soft, such as foam or felt, so the batteries don't get banged around or short out on the metal. Some thick wood to divide the boxes into two or three partitions and I think I'm in business.

Thanks again for the links and advice everyone. Like I said before, I don't fear the packs just spontaneously venting/igniting sitting in my house, but cheap insurance is always a good thing. If it did nothing more than contain a runaway LiPo long enough to get it out of my house, then it would be worth every penny.
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Old Dec 08, 2010, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
If it did nothing more than contain a runaway LiPo long enough to get it out of my house, then it would be worth every penny.
And there are plenty of instances in which the user did just that.
Some refuse the idea of simple, inexpensive insurance for a known hazard. I guess everyone has their comfort levels.

mw (liposack.com)
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Old Dec 08, 2010, 04:37 AM
Southern Pride
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Snip from OP.

Quote:
Are they supposed to be fireproof or able to contain the fire of an ignited LiPo? They seem to be sturdy and most advertise they are waterproof, but are they strong enough to contain a LiPo fire, especially multiple batteries?
added the underline

My original reply.

Quote:
Many post on this and yes many do use them. Why,because they are cheap and readily available. Is it a good idea ,IMO no. LiPolys stored in a sealed container become a bomb if they should happen to go into thermal run away.

Some have vented these and there are many video s of Lipolys being set off in these in web videos.

Charles
Sorry Mike_Then hoppy and mk but I pointed out in the first responce post #2 that many do use them and that there were many videos of vented ones being used in videos.


Yes they (ammo can)will contain part of the fire for atleast a few moments. Perhaps long enough to get them out of the house,if you happen to be home,awake and perhaps close to them.

If the ammo can is sealed then most likely first thing noticed will be the lid being blown off and there goes the flames,handle and such. If vented them here comes the smoke , which will at the very least cause major damage and if you are a sleep likely death.

Any precaution is better than non as long as it does not in itself create more of an issue than a solution.



Undamaged LiPolys not being charged or baked rarely go thermal even if fully charged.

LiPolys at 3.8 volts per cell contain less energy and are thus safer than fully charged ones.

For years I have recomended storing LiPolys at 3.8 volts per cell and at approx. 45F in a frig.in seasled freezer bags. Many commented that was dangerious, would(could) damage the food that would not contain the fire if one started,etc,etc.

mk makes LipoSacks and has seen many LiPoly fires during testing, hoppy has maintained the LiPoly fire events post here on RC Groups for years and has likely seen a Lipo fire or two. Mark uses LipoSack and charges outside on concrete , hoppy uses an enclosed grill outside for charging and storage I believe.

IMO if I had answered the OP with a simple yes ammo cans are great for storage then it would provide a false sense of security more than protection.

The issue of how to safely store LiPolys has came up many times over the years and most every time it just leads to an endless debate which I feel adds to the confusion.

Most either feel it will never happen to them or that their crock pot, pressure cooler, stove oven ,fireplace , metal top work benck,etec. etc. will work fine.

IMO an undamaged LiPoly at 3.85 volts per cell and at 45F is as safe as practical for storage for most.

On the flip side when someone post a questions about using a LiPoly which is a little puffed, dinged, hole , bent,wrinkled etc. the general reply is that it will most likely be fine or they have used ones like that for years and tehy work great.

Why in the @^#* would anyone in their right mine advise someone to put a rubber band around the handle of a live gernade .pull the pin and store it in thier house? Sorry but it makes just as much sense to me.




Charles
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Old Dec 08, 2010, 05:07 PM
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So what IS a good storage device?

howell
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Old Dec 08, 2010, 05:47 PM
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From Hoppy's link above, i remember this one!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355739

perhaps:
http://www.graupner.de/en/products/3...1/product.aspx
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Old Dec 08, 2010, 08:44 PM
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http://www.liposack.com/storage.htm

mw
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Old Dec 09, 2010, 02:13 AM
William from Windham NH USA
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United States, NH, Windham
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Greetings from the north east USA

I would like to see whats inside this super duper lipo charge and container case in anyone have more info on this and what the cost is? http://www.graupner.de/en/products/3...1/product.aspx

Thanks william
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Old Dec 09, 2010, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
On the flip side when someone post a questions about using a LiPoly which is a little puffed, dinged, hole , bent,wrinkled etc. the general reply is that it will most likely be fine or they have used ones like that for years and tehy work great.

Why in the @^#* would anyone in their right mine advise someone to put a rubber band around the handle of a live gernade .pull the pin and store it in thier house? Sorry but it makes just as much sense to me.

Charles
I certainly agree with this last part, but IMO, an ammo can is one of the best options for storing and charging LiPo's and not a risky one.

I'll first admit that a refrigerator is the very best way to store and charge LiPo's, but certainly not the one in your kitchen.
A used, non-working one from a junkyard would be ideal because it would/should contain an explosion (if the door is latchable or bungied shut) and any smoke as well.

But short of that, none of the "bags" or any other commercial solution will do anything but isolate the damage from the surrounding area, and I doubt if a bag or anything else that's smallish will contain the smoke.

A heavy steel ammo can with several small (not large) holes drilled into it to prevent a blow-out of the lid is about the best there is compared to anything else except an old refrigerator placed in the middle of a large backyard.

Life itself is "risk", and managing risk isn't an "all or nothing" choice. If it were, none of us would ever leave our homes.
Managing the odds of a LiPo meltdown using a vented ammo can is a fine compromise of risk vs ease of use and protection.

I do agree, though, that I get a godawful sinking feeling in my stomach when I read that someone tells someone else that continuing to user a puffy battery pack is "OK, I've been doing it for years and they work GREAT!".
That's just crazy.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 05:58 PM
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I bought 2 ammo can's (they are cheap enough) and stacked them together and drilled four small holes for bolts and nuts to hold them together. I opened the top box and drilled 10 1 inch holes thru to the bottom box. I drilled 4 small holes in the very corners. I then drilled 2 holes on each end of the top box. I then take a big ziplock bag and fill with sand. The bag of sand sits in the top box. My batteries are in the small lipo-safe bags from HK, I have 4 of them to help separate the batteries in the bottom box.

Should a fire start the heat will melt the plastic bag and allow the sand to dump on the burning battery. Because of the shape of the glad bag the corner holes stay clear to vent the pressure and smoke to the top box and out the holes I drilled into the end's of the top box possibly allowing you to use the handle of the top box to remove to outside.

Have not tested it and hope I never will.

The idea came from this thread and sand looked to put out the fire quicker. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1333205

To some it might seem like a lot to do but it did not take me more then an hour. The piece of mine I receive is welcome with my two small kids and a wife living under the same roof as an RC hobbyist.
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