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Old Dec 05, 2010, 03:06 AM
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ozzi supercub's Avatar
South Australia
Joined Jan 2008
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ELERC Micro EDF A-10 Build and Discussion

Well after asking nicely for one of ELERC new Micro EDF A-10 it arrived this week and to say I was excited was an understatement. I fly every weekend with NitroCharged and he is GOD as far as I'm concerned when it comes to Micro EDF. I have decided to use the power system from my Multiplex Fox EDF conversion. While not being a speed demon it flew fine and amazed many at my field.

After having a good look at the model I've decided to do away with the single servo/torque rod setup for the ailerons. I tried setting it up but couldn't get it working to my satisfaction. Plenty of meat in the wing for the little servos.
Pics show potential placement for the elevator servo but I haven't settled on it yet. Seeing as they dont provide instructions I'm guessing we'll see many different setups. I've decided against having rudder. Having 2 rudders to actuate will be to complex and add uneccessary weight. My aim is to take this to my local indoor venue and wow them with the probably the first ever indoor micro EDF jet.

The battery compartment is quite small but with a bit of foam removal should fit my little 800 2S lipos no probs. Lately I've found myself attracted to smaller models as the associated cheap electronics/batteries etc make it more accessible for me and the fun factor is way up there.

Anyone else receiving their model please feel free to post here so we can have as much info for anyone who wants to build theirs once ELERC release it. After seeing what a sales success the 50mm jets have been this must surely be the future.
This wont be a quick build as I work far too many hours for my own good so please bear with me.
Let the games begin....................
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Old Dec 05, 2010, 08:47 AM
Team30 Micro EDF
MegaTesla's Avatar
Stellenbosch, South Africa
Joined Apr 2004
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Lucky you! I have paid for mine 3 weeks ago, and on contacting them they just say they will "ship soon" and "are busy nowadays."
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Old Dec 05, 2010, 10:53 AM
EDF all the way!
bruff's Avatar
Gilbert, Az
Joined Jun 1999
7,939 Posts
Looks good. I'm going to use Hacker E10-28L 5500 KV motors in mine on 3S. I have not heard back either after I paid other than they needed my phone # for EMS shipping.
Bob
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Old Dec 05, 2010, 02:18 PM
we can take off without that
green_flyer's Avatar
London, UK
Joined Nov 2008
763 Posts
very exciting build! Ozzi, are those 10mm inrunners?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9824
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Old Dec 05, 2010, 06:13 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
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Glad to see the first Beta build starting. 2 servos for ailerons with that dihedral does make sense. GWS tried the torque rod thing on their Corsair and quickly had to put a tech mod on using dual servos because of binding.

Fitting all the gear including ESC's, battery, servos will be the art I'm sure. I see the landing gear plates installed. Thinking it would be great to try her out with gear installed, and without.

It's OK that you can't speed along on the build because of other obligations. Would'nt do justice to rush that build. Since several will be in process soon, some brain storming can help define the little details and different approaches used.

This should be great, a fleet of micro 30mm A-10's.


Fred
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Old Dec 05, 2010, 09:25 PM
Life begins at transition
Australia, VIC, Sale
Joined May 2007
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A10 #2

Well, just at Ozzi got his early present from Santa, so did I. And as I'm at home with a cold at the moment, I thought I'd start the build.

I've decided to go a slightly different tack from Ozzi. Mine will be aimed at small park flying, rather than indoor. That really only means I'll run a slightly heavier power system. Given the two of us fly together, it'll be good then to compare head to head the two approaches.

First, a size comparison. I think we've all have, or have had, a Fox at one point or another. The A10 has just a bit more wing area, but otherwise is around the same size. The empty A10 airframe (with canopy etc) weighs in at 60.5g, so I don't think it's feasable to have the A10 as light as the Fox. I don't think we'll have any walking pace A10's running around!

Control surfaces provided are elevator. Rudder and aileron have the lines marked, but aren't cut. The elevator is hinged with clear tape, and has a carbon strip facing it. nice, free movement, but the tape could make painting a pain. It's not hard to rehinge though, is it

I decided on ailerons, but using the torque rods. We'll see how this goes. I normally prefer twin servos, so I may well swap these out in the future. The install was just like any other, but the rods themselves do have quite a lot of twist to them. This means the ailerons don't have free play as such, but are easy to move without the servo moving. I've flown planes worse though, so I'm not too concerned.

Power will come from two AEO 30mm fans (really? ) Each has a custom wound motor, drawing around 40w on 2s. I'll try 2s first, if not I'll go up to 3.
The nacelles have a recess in the exhaust for the ESCs as well as some troughs for the wiring. I'm not using them, as I don't like to stick things in the exhaust, and long power leads is bad for the ESC, or so I'm lead to believe.

I'm amazed that the wing is removable! The kit comes with pins for the leading edge, and a plate/bolt arrangement for the trailing edge. Although I never intend on taking the wing off, it does make swapping servos easy, a nice touch

So far, in around 2 hours, I've got the ailerons cut, hinged and torque rodded, both servos installed, EDFs in, spar in the wing and landing gear on. Really, all that's left is to button it up.
I haven't taken too many pics of the radio gear installation, as that will change with each person's gear. I will make sure some shots are taken at the end as a reference though, for good and bad

EDIT: Well sorry folks, but my computer won't let me send the pics at the moment. It keeps saying the internet has dropped out whenever I try. I'll make sure they get put up after the pc is exorcised...
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Last edited by Odysis; Dec 05, 2010 at 10:01 PM.
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 12:56 AM
WiggleWiggleWiggle
ozzi supercub's Avatar
South Australia
Joined Jan 2008
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Curious to see where you mounted your elevator servo Odysis?
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 03:07 AM
Life begins at transition
Australia, VIC, Sale
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Ozzi,
In the tail boom, about half way from the wing TE to the horz stab LE. I have a fully internal linkage, so I had to cut away a bit of foam inside.

I've finished up the build (to a flyable point anyway), and the important stats are:
Weight: 177g
Batts: 2x 2s360
Thrust: 85g

I thought 0.5:1 should be OK for a slow flying A10, but alas, this one doesn't cut it. I'll have to scrounge a 3s 500ish pack. I did do some testing with an "extended glide" though.

I found the CoG on the carbon spar to be too far forward. About 1cm aft worked the best. By the best, I mean a 15m "glide" with a controlable flare.

Also, after about 10 landings, my right hand nacelle is starting to crack where it joins the fuse. Given my setup doesn't have the ESC in there, and fairly light motors, I can see this being an issue for other builds. Once up and flying, that area will get a strip of 25gsm glass.

Last point for now, the landing gear didn't work for me (surprise surprise). I found it pulled right, and couldn't see a way to straighten it. It's now been removed. Handlaunch worked best with the underhand method, as the shape of the fuse doesn't make for an easy grip...

Hopefully more to come when I get a new battery set up, and actually get a circuit out of it!
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Last edited by Odysis; Dec 06, 2010 at 03:27 AM.
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 05:03 AM
WiggleWiggleWiggle
ozzi supercub's Avatar
South Australia
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysis View Post

Also, after about 10 landings, my right hand nacelle is starting to crack where it joins the fuse.
Do you think using the term "landing" might be pushing it a bit........

Thanks for the pics. I have to try another way seeing as i glued the fuse together already.
Have made some more progress and installed the fans. I am reading about 65 grams of thrust per side by blowing it on the scales. I know this isn't very accurate but I thought I'd post the numbers anyway. All the parts laid on the scale weigh 161 grams. Add a bit of glue and paint and I'm estimating an AUW of around 170 grams.

Green Flyer- it was a long time ago but I'm pretty sure I used these.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9068
Can only run them on 2S though. If I had the skills of NitroCharged then i could wind some custom outrunners and get crazy power on 3S but I'll leave that to the pros.
Mine will be more an excercise in what you can build using off the shelf parts.
I totally forgot I have 2 days off of work. Took time off and am going to see Guns and Roses in concert tomorrow night.
Will probably get close to finishing it in the next couple of days.
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 10:48 AM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
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Ozzi and Odysis,

Good data. The power to weight issue is troubling..... Hope a larger pack helps without overheating the little motors.

Slightly off subject.. In the early 1990's I got to go to a free Guns and Roses concert. As I was a Cross-Country runner, I got row #2, center isle seats. Someone offered me $100 a seat ($400) and wouldn't budge. For 2 days the ringing in my ears didn't go away, and I still have trouble hearing! Take ear plugs (or the $400)!

I wonder what the true output of the new AEO 30mm, 8 blade rotor, 9000KV motor really is. Per Specs on Hobbypartz: ADF30-05 w/ 9000KV 9000 C05
BL-Motor 9.5 ADF30.
8.0 volts, 4.2 Amps, 48g Thrust, 1.69 ounce Thrust, 33.6 Watts, 1.43(g/w) Efficiency, 0.05(W/oz) Efficiency.

Odysis is getting 85 grams.
Ozzi is getting 130 grams.
AEO would claim 96 grams.

If the airframe is going into the 170 gram range (or higher) seems to be a real challenge.
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 01:09 PM
we can take off without that
green_flyer's Avatar
London, UK
Joined Nov 2008
763 Posts
Thanks Ozzi. Maybe the 10mm Turnigy inrunner 1015 would be ok. Mega Tesla got 30g @ 2.5A in the 20mm EDF.
I wonder if this plane could be built at around 100g?
2 x 10mm Turnigy 10g
2 x EDF30 8g?
2 x Turnigy 6A 9.5g? (4.7g each with lightened wires)
1 x 325mah 2s 22g
1 x AR6300 2g
3 x 2.5g servo 8g
Airframe 50g?
TOTAL: 110g hmm, maybe 100g is out of reach

I wish I jumped on the band wagon earlier, now I'll have to wait until they release it for general sale.
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 02:10 PM
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ozzi supercub's Avatar
South Australia
Joined Jan 2008
6,066 Posts
I think you'll struggle to get the weight down that much. I've built mine using Foam safe CA sparingly. If I'd used epoxy I reckon it would have come out heavier. Lets hope they look at bringing out a nice little F-16. I know it's been done to death but I reckon it would be a very straight forward proposition for both manufacturer and modeler. Lets see how much thrust the pros get from their custom wind motors and we'll see what happens.
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 02:21 PM
Life begins at transition
Australia, VIC, Sale
Joined May 2007
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Freddie,
My thrust is so low as they aren't off-the-shelf motors. They were custom wound for an earlier project aimed at 3s and 4s operation, hence the lack of thrust on 2! Unfortunately, I don't have a small enough 3s, as even with the batteries I've used, I had to stick a fair bit (5g) of weight on the tail to balance it out.

So I guess some advice to those building: Move everything you can aft!
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 02:25 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
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Odysis,

That is a problem. At 3 series, the Amps would be up and so the battery capacity would need to up too (weight), etc, etc. Hummmm..... Good to know.

Fred
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 02:28 PM
Team30 Micro EDF
NitroCharged's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2004
11,194 Posts
There's an image of an F16 advertised as 'new model' but no links on it on the elerc.com website... Fingers crossed.

Ozzi, for the elevator servo - can you slice a hole in the side of the fuse and shove it in, running the pushrod on the outside to the elevator - much like the mig had?

Ody, if the model is ground looping there's a number of things to check. The alignment of the LG is correct. All wheels roll freely. Your fans are putting out equal thrust. The rudders are aligned. Mute point if you've pulled the LG but might be handy for others building it.
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