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Old Dec 04, 2010, 09:22 AM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
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Yak, Extra 260,300,330, Sukhoi, Edge??? What all do they do well?

I was wondering if there is a reason for all the different planes other than to be different? Is an Extra 260 better or worse in some way to a Extra 300? 330? Edge? Sukhoi? Yak?

I'm wanting to get a BIG plane finally to help calm my A.D.D. for a few minuets and trying to make sense of it all. I'm actually more of a helicopter guy. I feel more at ease with helicopters and on edge (no pun intended!) with planes although I have quite a few. I am a novice plane pilot and intermediate heli flyer.

I really like the "around 70" size" with the 68" Velox being tops on the list with the 70" AJ Slick being a close second to learn 3D with. Between my 2 helicopters, a V-bar logo 500 and a Trex 700e 3G I have 14-6s5000 batteries so I want to take advantage of the batteries that are readily available to me. heck, I even use 9-6s 5000 batteries to power my brush less bicycle to 34 mph with no peddling.....another discussion all together.

I got off point...I do that! So what's the difference in the types of planes or is it a Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge thing?

Tom
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 09:45 AM
Extremely Twisted
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United States, NH, Epping
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Extra - There are many different models of the Extra. The 300S, 300L, 330S, and 330L, are all low wing. The 300 and 260 are mid-wing. The 300, 300L, and 330L all have 2-place canopies; the 300S, 330S, and 260 are single-seaters. Common to all is a double-tapered wing and a clean fuselage. The low-wing versions usually have some rudder-to-elevator (pitch) coupling, and very little, if any, rudder-to-aileron coupling (depending on dihedral). The mid-wing 260 and 300 have less pitch coupling and more roll coupling. The double-tapered wing makes for axial rolls, clean snaps and spin entries, and stability in yaw. Combined with the clean fuselage, this makes for a great precision airplane (look at the top IMAC finishes and you'll see what I mean). However, there are many, many Extras available now that are also great 3D aircraft.

Edge - There are really only two Edges to be concerned with: the Edge 540 and Edge 540T. The 540T has a two-place canopy; the 540 is a single-seater. Both of them have a wing with a straight leading edge and a tapered trailing edge, placed at upper middle of the fuselage. This generally makes for roll and pitch coupling similar to a mid-wing Extra (very little pitch coupling, some roll coupling). The straight leading edge makes for great low-speed performance and stability. However, the straight leading edge also has an interesting effect on yaw: when you yaw an Extra (or a Yak), the wing that moves forward presents a larger frontal area, creating more drag on that side. This leads to a restoring force on that side, meaning more yaw stability. It also means that yaw is more likely to induce a snap. This does not happen with an Edge. As a result, an Edge will generally be a little bit less stable in yaw, but also less likely to snap or spin. For these reasons Edges are usually fantastic at 3D, but not as good at precision as an Extra.

Yak - There are three Yaks to be concerned with: the 54, 55, and 55SP. On all three, the wing and stab are placed towards the lower middle of the fuselage, making for little coupling. The 54 is shorter and has greater side area, whereas the 55 is more stretched. The 55SP has a larger turtle deck, making for better lateral lift (knife-edge) than the 55. All of them have a big, round cowl that makes for slow downlines (sometimes a plus in precision flying) but limit top speed (sometimes a drawback for precision). A light Yak is usually great for 3D.

Before anybody jumps down my throat claiming that Edge A flies better than Extra B or whatever, all of these are vague generalizations. There are some fantastic and some awful examples of each aircraft available. I have flown some Edges that are better at precision than some Extras, and I've flown a few Extras that have felt better down and dirty than some Edges in the same size. If you get an aircraft from a trusted manufacturer with a good reputation you really can't go wrong...For example, Extreme Flight makes a 50cc Extra 300, Yak 54, and Edge 540T and they all seem to be great.
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 10:20 AM
Barefoot Birkinsomething
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United States, CA, Hayward
Joined Aug 2004
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Originally Posted by cwojcik View Post
Extra - There are many different models of the Extra. The 300S, 300L, 330S, and 330L, are all low wing. The 300 and 260 are mid-wing. The 300, 300L, and 330L all have 2-place canopies; the 300S, 330S, and 260 are single-seaters. Common to all is a double-tapered wing and a clean fuselage. The low-wing versions usually have some rudder-to-elevator (pitch) coupling, and very little, if any, rudder-to-aileron coupling (depending on dihedral). The mid-wing 260 and 300 have less pitch coupling and more roll coupling. The double-tapered wing makes for axial rolls, clean snaps and spin entries, and stability in yaw. Combined with the clean fuselage, this makes for a great precision airplane (look at the top IMAC finishes and you'll see what I mean). However, there are many, many Extras available now that are also great 3D aircraft.

Edge - There are really only two Edges to be concerned with: the Edge 540 and Edge 540T. The 540T has a two-place canopy; the 540 is a single-seater. Both of them have a wing with a straight leading edge and a tapered trailing edge, placed at upper middle of the fuselage. This generally makes for roll and pitch coupling similar to a mid-wing Extra (very little pitch coupling, some roll coupling). The straight leading edge makes for great low-speed performance and stability. However, the straight leading edge also has an interesting effect on yaw: when you yaw an Extra (or a Yak), the wing that moves forward presents a larger frontal area, creating more drag on that side. This leads to a restoring force on that side, meaning more yaw stability. It also means that yaw is more likely to induce a snap. This does not happen with an Edge. As a result, an Edge will generally be a little bit less stable in yaw, but also less likely to snap or spin. For these reasons Edges are usually fantastic at 3D, but not as good at precision as an Extra.

Yak - There are three Yaks to be concerned with: the 54, 55, and 55SP. On all three, the wing and stab are placed towards the lower middle of the fuselage, making for little coupling. The 54 is shorter and has greater side area, whereas the 55 is more stretched. The 55SP has a larger turtle deck, making for better lateral lift (knife-edge) than the 55. All of them have a big, round cowl that makes for slow downlines (sometimes a plus in precision flying) but limit top speed (sometimes a drawback for precision). A light Yak is usually great for 3D.

Before anybody jumps down my throat claiming that Edge A flies better than Extra B or whatever, all of these are vague generalizations. There are some fantastic and some awful examples of each aircraft available. I have flown some Edges that are better at precision than some Extras, and I've flown a few Extras that have felt better down and dirty than some Edges in the same size. If you get an aircraft from a trusted manufacturer with a good reputation you really can't go wrong...For example, Extreme Flight makes a 50cc Extra 300, Yak 54, and Edge 540T and they all seem to be great.
fantastic explanation!

i am now convinced, more than ever, that the airframe in the rc world makes very little difference (within a company of course). I mean sure, some will slightly excel at precision, and some will slightly excel at 3D, but to be honest, they are all (at least all from the good brands like extreme flight, sebart, and 3DHS) capable of much more than the average, or even above average, pilot is capable of performing. I would say get the one that is a good size for you and you like the looks of, and I think somehow you will be happy
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 10:27 AM
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fantastic explanation!

i am now convinced, more than ever, that the airframe in the rc world makes very little difference (within a company of course). I mean sure, some will slightly excel at precision, and some will slightly excel at 3D, but to be honest, they are all (at least all from the good brands like extreme flight, sebart, and 3DHS) capable of much more than the average, or even above average, pilot is capable of performing. I would say get the one that is a good size for you and you like the looks of, and I think somehow you will be happy
+2

Both well said
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 01:19 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
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WOW! What a great explanation of the hows and whys of 3D plane world. cwojcik thanks a million.

I'm still thinking the 68" Velox at 8.5 lbs should be pretty darn cool on 6s.

Tom
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 01:21 PM
Barefoot Birkinsomething
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Originally Posted by litespeed View Post
WOW! What a great explanation of the hows and whys of 3D plane world. cwojcik thanks a million.

I'm still thinking the 68" Velox at 8.5 lbs should be pretty darn cool on 6s.

Tom
yes....yes it would

you might also want to check out the 65" vyper. very unique plane, and while it isnt for everyone, it does have some pretty awesome capabillities, whether it be pattern sequences or hucking 3D. and at around 7.5 lbs, a 6s setup is AWESOME. just some food for thought
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 01:33 PM
Irg
ol' yellow eyes is back
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flown yours yet Erik?
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 01:41 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
Joined Mar 2005
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Originally Posted by rcbirk21 View Post
yes....yes it would

you might also want to check out the 65" vyper. very unique plane, and while it isnt for everyone, it does have some pretty awesome capabillities, whether it be pattern sequences or hucking 3D. and at around 7.5 lbs, a 6s setup is AWESOME. just some food for thought
Man the decisions......decisions, decisions?!?!

Too many to figure out. I wish someone close to me (St. Charles, Missouri!) had some of these planes to look at....kick the tires so to speak.

Tom
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 01:43 PM
Barefoot Birkinsomething
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flown yours yet Erik?
again we get back to the "im an engineering student with finals around the corner" hahaha. i havnt even taken it out of the box. i know, its sacrilegious. ive got everything for the plane, minus my new battery leads. I am gonna try to make the switch over to power poles. still havnt completely decided what size to use, im leaning heavily towards the 45a ones. i want to get it in the air SOOOO bad, but with school being so hectic, family vacation over winter break, and getting ready for my internship this summer in south carolina, i just dont have time. not to mention it is freakin freezing here.
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 01:44 PM
Barefoot Birkinsomething
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Originally Posted by litespeed View Post
Man the decisions......decisions, decisions?!?!

Too many to figure out. I wish someone close to me (St. Charles, Missouri!) had some of these planes to look at....kick the tires so to speak.

Tom
let me put it this way. find one you like the looks of that is in your size range on the 3dhs website, order it, and enjoy. i promise you wont be dissapointed. you will more than likely buy more than one regardless
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 01:49 PM
Extremely Twisted
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Thanks for the kind words guys...Usually I half expect a big argument when I post something like that.

The important thing to remember is that the manufacturer really has more to do with how the airplane flies than the full-scale airplane it is based on. If I were in your position I would do a 70" Slick or 70" Extra 300EXP (from Extreme Flight).
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 02:00 PM
Barefoot Birkinsomething
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Thanks for the kind words guys...Usually I half expect a big argument when I post something like that.

The important thing to remember is that the manufacturer really has more to do with how the airplane flies than the full-scale airplane it is based on. If I were in your position I would do a 70" Slick or 70" Extra 300EXP (from Extreme Flight).
couldnt have said it better myself. IMO cant go wrong with the big 3 (3dhs, extreme flight, sebart). in the US, sebart is kinda off the map as they are pretty expensive. but in europe sebart planes are EVERYWHERE, and ive liked the few that i have had
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