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Old Jan 04, 2013, 12:32 AM
2 metre rule applies!
DRAMJET's Avatar
BOOGI, Australia
Joined Dec 2008
1,135 Posts
My 50mm T33 had the tip tanks labelled as the "big missiles". We have changed our terminology with tongue in cheek.

Gotta love Chinglish, the Saab 340 manual was in Swinglish with some real technical doozies.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 08:28 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
solentlife's Avatar
Latvia / UK visits
Joined Jan 2010
7,435 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by G550Ted View Post
Sometimes in the model community we get off on a tangent trying to describe nomenclature for components or features of things technical or aeronautical. Partly due to the influence of Chinglish and mistakes by well meaning but uninformed folk, that snowballs in these threads and on YouTube and I suppose elsewhere.

A "stab" is short for stabilator for instance. A stabilator is an all-moving horizontal tail surface. So, saying something like "an all-flying stab" or "free-floating stab", ect., is redundant. A "stab" is an all-flying surface...............Ted
Actually All Flying Stabilizer is a fully acceptable term used in the real world as well.

When The UK and USA were trying to beat the sound barrier ... UK designed and built an aeroplane with ALL FLYING STABILIZER ... sadly the Govt shelved the project just before flight ... US designers visited UK and viewed the prototype aircraft ... took back info etc. to USA. The X series planes were plagued with control problems, but designers then built in provision to change to ALL FLYING STABILIZER ... which they did and history was made ...

There are FIXED STABS ... ALL FLYING STABS ... etc.

I rest my case based on my Father - who was a leading Aviation Govt person in UK for his working life after the War. Was involved in many pioneering projects ... incl In Flight Refueling, Trans Polar flights - in fact HE navigated the FIRST commercial flight over the North Pole, Accident Investigation, Concorde trials, commercial flight ops ... just a few of the arena's he was in. I grew up listening to such talk about stabilizers and so on ...

Modellers ? We imitate ...

Nigel
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 08:30 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
solentlife's Avatar
Latvia / UK visits
Joined Jan 2010
7,435 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAMJET View Post
My 50mm T33 had the tip tanks labelled as the "big missiles". We have changed our terminology with tongue in cheek.

Gotta love Chinglish, the Saab 340 manual was in Swinglish with some real technical doozies.
My Volvo Manual is in Russian. I speak it but don't read it !!

My 9x manuals ... I have Chinglish as well as correct good english version.

Nigel
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 09:41 AM
Row 0, Seat A
G550Ted's Avatar
Savannah, GA
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmd View Post
I beg to differ. A "stab" is generally taken as short for "horizontal stabilizer" i.e. the fixed surface to which the moving elevator is connected.

Thus, the terms "all flying stab" or "free floating stab" or "flying stab" are all correct.

That being said, William Shakespeare once opined that a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Use whatever terminology you desire, as long as effective communication takes place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Actually All Flying Stabilizer is a fully acceptable term used in the real world as well.

When The UK and USA were trying to beat the sound barrier ... UK designed and built an aeroplane with ALL FLYING STABILIZER ... sadly the Govt shelved the project just before flight ... US designers visited UK and viewed the prototype aircraft ... took back info etc. to USA. The X series planes were plagued with control problems, but designers then built in provision to change to ALL FLYING STABILIZER ... which they did and history was made ...

There are FIXED STABS ... ALL FLYING STABS ... etc.

I rest my case based on my Father - who was a leading Aviation Govt person in UK for his working life after the War. Was involved in many pioneering projects ... incl In Flight Refueling, Trans Polar flights - in fact HE navigated the FIRST commercial flight over the North Pole, Accident Investigation, Concorde trials, commercial flight ops ... just a few of the arena's he was in. I grew up listening to such talk about stabilizers and so on ...

Modellers ? We imitate ...

Nigel
Good examples of why we should strive to use today's proper terminology, not that of the 1940's as more specific verbiage has since evolved.

Of "stab"s, stabilizers come in two flavors, horizontal and vertical (aka; fin). So "all flying stab" where "stab" is understood as a stabilizer could also describe the vertical surface (these do exist). I, too, use the term "stab" to mean stabilizer, but always specify as either vertical stab or horizontal stab. Using the term stabilator leaves no doubt about what kind of a surface I am speaking about or it's placement.

Ailerons were once commonly called "flippers", Dave Powers introduced the term "fronterons" for leading edge flaps, some are calling landing gear doors "pants" which is/are a totally different component, Nitro Planes incorrectly calls the three in-line wheels on the ASK 23 Sailplane a "tricycle gear" because there are three of them, and the list goes on.

I merely encourage all to learn and use the proper aeronautical lexicon for better understanding of our shared enthusiasm in this hobby.

Ted
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 12:57 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Originally Posted by G550Ted View Post
Good examples of why we should strive to use today's proper terminology, not that of the 1940's as more specific verbiage has since evolved.............Ted
I'm not trying to be rude ... but who said you were correct and we were wrong ? Please do not quote Wikipedia ... the usual source that is READER EDITABLE ... yes many don't realise that Wikipedia pages can be edited by YOU the reader ... creating an info source that at times is BS ... honest !

Considering that many of todays so-called revolutionary flight designs owe their existence to WW2 and shortly after ... even Stealth ...

Nigel
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 01:38 PM
INDORUS EXPARAMINTO
SPEED-E-FLYER's Avatar
Springfield, Missouri, United States
Joined Jul 2002
4,202 Posts
OK, OK We get it Brothers
Everybody here like airplane, some like them a lot more.
They want to know just about every aspect of aircraft and how it works.
and like to pass on that knowledge to us and for that we are thankful.

Back to 50mm EDFs

I'm installin the little motor dohicky on my AMX to control the flappy thingy on the wingy this afternoon, if I can get my girl down for a nap.

Larry
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 01:48 PM
Registered User
Mike20's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
544 Posts
Well lesson learned my T45 stock doesn't have enough thrust with the thrust tube installed. I guess my stubbornness costs me more money as I destroyed my spare airframe with 4 nose dives yesterday.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 03:00 PM
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gooniac33's Avatar
Sunnyvale
Joined Feb 2009
4,789 Posts
The most important thing about this hobby is to have fun.... but there is a lot that can be learned from people that have actually flown the real things! Learn something from G550Ted because he knows his stuff! And yes...Dave Powers drives me nuts with his made up words!! I totally think he does it to just piss people off...LOL

But anyway....As I always say...just quit the yappin and get to flying already!!
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 11:22 AM
INDORUS EXPARAMINTO
SPEED-E-FLYER's Avatar
Springfield, Missouri, United States
Joined Jul 2002
4,202 Posts
Hey Brothers
I'm looking for a few part from T-33's.
Any color , just about any part.
Wings, Fuselages, tail section.
As long as they are too crunched up.

Have an idea for a FRANKEN-PLANE that I think I can make up with
a few parts I have on hand.

I also cleaned up my garage too good and I miss having a buch of junked planes laying around.

PM me if you have something that you saved from a plane.
I'll cover the shipping cost and we can negotiate for what you have.

Thanks Folks

Larry
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 11:23 AM
always something to learn...
metalguy's Avatar
Tacoma, WA
Joined Jan 2011
2,432 Posts
I kinda get a kick out of some of the terms used in model kits advertising, and instructions....Like the 37MM cannons on my FMS Stuka being referred to as "bombs" for example. Gives me a smile, and the g/f asks me what is funny, often times. I know it propagates poor tech terms when we refer to our models here, but it is funny, nonetheless. I do a bit of technical writing, and when instructions are given in written format, they have to be clear, and concise, so I "get" why some feel their term for a specific control surface needs to be used, but often, it can have several correct names, such as referring to landging gear as an undercarriage, for example. I actually do have a 50mm edf question, though.....I have the F-86 sabre, and it has just stopped flying, like it gained weight, or something, and I am at a loss as to why. I have been using the hobby King alloy EDF in 3s trim, and "before", it flew ok, and was even fairly fast when compared to my MiG-15 that has the same set up. Now, I can't even get it to maintain altitude. I took the EDF out, and inspected it, looking for possible slippage of the fan, or adapter, and even used CA when I assembled it back, to eliminate that possibility, and no difference.... Everything else on this plane is the same! I am thinking of gettinga different unit for this, as it wasn't stellar in performance before, but at least it FLEW.....any ideas?--------Metalguy
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 11:26 AM
always something to learn...
metalguy's Avatar
Tacoma, WA
Joined Jan 2011
2,432 Posts
Larry, that is kinda funny. I just yesterday built a frankenplane. Upper wing from a HS-123, Fusalage from a ME-109, tail from a HE-162. I may try her out today, weather permitting...Good luck with yours!!------Metalguy
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 11:38 AM
Registered User
United States, AR, Jacksonville
Joined Jul 2004
385 Posts
Metalguy,

Try checking your powerplant out. Are you using only one battery pack, or is the performance the same on different packs? A wattmeter should help you here.

Another possibilty can be your motor, hand rotate it (battery disconnected!) and check for any friction in the bearings. Try another ESC and look for any performance difference.

If you're still stumped after those checks, your motor's magnets may have lost some of their magnetism.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 11:39 AM
Registered User
United States, AR, Jacksonville
Joined Jul 2004
385 Posts
Now that I think of it, those 2mm bullet connectors don't take much force to separate. Check those connections first.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 01:47 PM
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Joined Nov 2011
46 Posts
Hi guys, I`ve had about two dozen or so flights on my f-35 on stock power, well it was time for me to upgrade to something of better power and quality. I purchased a Wemotec micro fan and a HET 240-15 6000kv motor, got it assembled and fired it up on 1000mah 25c 3s battery, WOW what a beast! easily feels at least twice as powerful as stock and so much smoother, great quality. But now I have a problem, I`m still at the beginning stages of flying, and I`m afraid this thing is too strong for me, so can I use 2s battery instead? Has anyone tested a 6000kv motor on 2s? What were the results? Wish I had some 2s would test myself, don`t want to buy them just to find out my plane won`t have enough power to fly. Thanks for your help.

Paul.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 01:07 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
solentlife's Avatar
Latvia / UK visits
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwilk20 View Post
Hi guys, I`ve had about two dozen or so flights on my f-35 on stock power, well it was time for me to upgrade to something of better power and quality. I purchased a Wemotec micro fan and a HET 240-15 6000kv motor, got it assembled and fired it up on 1000mah 25c 3s battery, WOW what a beast! easily feels at least twice as powerful as stock and so much smoother, great quality. But now I have a problem, I`m still at the beginning stages of flying, and I`m afraid this thing is too strong for me, so can I use 2s battery instead? Has anyone tested a 6000kv motor on 2s? What were the results? Wish I had some 2s would test myself, don`t want to buy them just to find out my plane won`t have enough power to fly. Thanks for your help.

Paul.
Maths will help you ..

KV x volts gives nominal no load rpm

So take your original set-up ... 4300KV x 11.1V(3S)= 47730 rpm

Now the new one : 6000KV x 11.1V(3S) = 66600 rpm

Your proposed : 6000KV x 7.4V(2S) = 44400 rpm

As you see the 2S will give lower than the original set-up and you will be pushing WOT all the time to keep her marginally flying IF she does.

Note : KV x Volts is only an indicator and actual is always significantly less due to load etc.

My advice ? Fly with the 3S ... there is a throttle stick you can use ... I reckon the 2S will barely fly .... and you'll be mushing about.

Remember many people are flying these on 4S .... ie my 5000Kv on 4S = 74000 rpm nominal

Nigel
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