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Old Nov 20, 2012, 11:43 PM
Wonderfully Wicked
The Don's Avatar
Willoughby, Ohio
Joined Jan 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
My present 50mm with 6 blade and 5000kv hits consistent 140kph.
I was getting 140-145 kph with my T45 with the Wemo fan and Wicked 4800 on 4S. So about the same.

Don
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:06 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
solentlife's Avatar
Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by solentlife
My present 50mm with 6 blade and 5000kv hits consistent 140kph. Unquote

I was getting 140-145 kph with my T45 with the Wemo fan and Wicked 4800 on 4S. So about the same.

Don
OK ... and with your 6000kv ?

I really am of opinion that the T45 is a draggy airframe with those large inlets, wings reasonably thick .... that 140~ is about the limit ....

To get a better idea of what the T45 will do with my set-up - I've transferred my ET V3 Speed sensor to the T45 ... so once weather clears and I get her in the air - I'll have a reading of her. With video so no cheating with long dives etc. !!

Joe : On the topic of less amps and more thrust ... this can only work to a small degree as work is dependent on whats put in .... conservation of energy and all that. To output a figure - the rotor / motor combo must load up to a figure. You cannot get more for nothing. The only factor that can increase your output is efficiency. So I grant that the Lander fan is generally regarded as a better more efficient fan. The gain in performance I can only expect to be marginal to be honest as the level I am pushing - only serious diffierences in gear can give appreciable gain. I think Don will agree on that - otherwise why would he waste time on the Wicked series of motors. My Need for Speed campaign with the Parkjet is agood example of small gain for large increase of power etc.
I know my worst item is the motor itself - as it's not so efficient ... so it takes more amps to try and reach its KV x Volts specification. But I'm not a rich man so I live with it. I'm also a person who is renowned for cheapskating my way to what I want ...
The 2610 Turnigy was originally bought for my 64mm T45 .. but the performance was only a few kph better than stock 4200KV ... so I reverted to Turnigy 4200 in her and swapped it to the 50mm where I got a much better result.
My reasoning is that for anyone who wants a cheap upgrade that is fast but not out of reasonable control - my $30 (note that incl. shipping from HK to me) upgrade is not a bad option.
For those with the skill to modify an overlarge Lander fan or more money can of course go the other routes and likely get more ... but again I'll be surprised if the difference is that great.

What I find interesting is that the SAPAC T45 is able to reach much higher speeds (one youtube vid claims 264kph based on a sensor which includes his lovely dives !... actual doppler of his level is 195kph.... like many youtube vids they overstate the speeds) ... but still at near 200kph on a T45 frame is good. But the strange part is the SAPAC T45 is larger and heavier than the Lanyu 64mm which reaches only similar to the 50mm at 140~. My Lanyu is currently running a 4S 2700 pack on 6 blader ... with 1:1 thrust to weight.

Overall an interesting exercise and I read it ball ... I will be looking to see how far I can push the 50mm T45 ... I'm currently able to carry to a 4S 1600 or 3S 2200 in her and still glide well ....

Lets see what the V3 Speed sensor gives ...

Nigel
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:38 AM
Flying from Vic Park
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Australia, SA, Adelaide
Joined May 2011
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What does the Lanyu T45 fly like I keep trying to decide between the HK and Lanyu? I know this is the 50mm forum and both of those are 64mm.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:42 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
Joined Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by Mike20 View Post
I miss flying do I've decided to rebuild my crashed t45 and use the stock setup and when I have the money I'll get the airframe and dons wicked combo. My only problem is I don't have a vertical stabilizer. And I'm not good at forming foam so is there anything else I could make it out of or even a way I can make another one?
6mm foam floor underlay or Depron ... just cut to outline ... chamfer leading edge ... cut two slivers to strengthen joint to fuselage ... 5 minute job.

The original is only a couple of mm thicker ...

Nigel
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:49 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great_Goose View Post
What does the Lanyu T45 fly like I keep trying to decide between the HK and Lanyu? I know this is the 50mm forum and both of those are 64mm.
The HK is based on the SAPAC version and is slightly bigger / heavier than the Lanyu. I have the Lanyu and it flies really well. For $29.99 as a kit + shipping it's a steal.

Mine has the Turnigy 2815 4200kv EDF motor
Stock fan as supplied
70A ESC - too big for normal use - I suggest a 50A is better.

I modified from front mount elevator servo to two small separate servos at rear so helping balance larger LiPo .... I now fly her with a 4S 2700 Zippy Compact .....

Forget the wheels ... put a 2200 3S in her .... she'll fly nice.

There's a thread by me with videos etc. here on RCGroups and also on Wattflyer ... http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67178

Nigel
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:44 AM
Wonderfully Wicked
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Willoughby, Ohio
Joined Jan 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
OK ... and with your 6000kv ?
Not the 6000 on 4S, the Wicked 4800KV on 4S @ ~430 watts. I flown many of the 50mm series and you will find most when flown on ~400 watts will be in the 85 mph range, the the F16 on the same watts will be about 95 mph and the Screamer will be about 100 mph. (A few are slower like the F22 and F35). So the Screamer has the best speed potential.

I have seen Youtube videos with the the use of a GPS speed meter called "Voltron" I think. The speeds it reports are way off. A model that is really flying ~115-120 mph will be reported on that GPS logger as 140-150mph.

Don
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:31 AM
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United States, FL, Sebring
Joined Feb 2006
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Originally Posted by gooniac33 View Post
What an awesome day to fly yesterday!! It was 68 degrees and next to no wind! Got to fly the fleet of 50mm's and ran into Micromantis while I was out there. He had his new Screamer out there with Don's Wicked Wemo 6000kv set up ON 4S!!!!!!! Words can't describe how well this thing flies and how insanely fast it is!!! I was able to get some stick time with this little beast and then shot this video....

]
Do you happen to know the Amp consumption and Watts?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Sunnyvale
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Originally Posted by Joe 1320 View Post
Do you happen to know the Amp consumption and Watts?
No but the next time I see him I will hook up my wattmeter and post the findings. I think that Don has it posted on his site though... not confirmed though...
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:08 AM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
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i guessed , and don confirmed close to 50 amps, but joe may be looking for the numbers w/ the smaller battery.

chuck.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:07 PM
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United States, FL, Sebring
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Originally Posted by chas650r View Post
i guessed , and don confirmed close to 50 amps, but joe may be looking for the numbers w/ the smaller battery.

chuck.
My target lipo is probably somewhere around an 1800 65C. Flight times don't need to be long, just a warm up lap or two and a couple speed runs. Total flight time only needs to be a minute and a half. My best guess at the moment is it's going to be around 700 Watts. I may have to do my own lipo pack, running two 2s 1800 packs in series.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:13 PM
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Joined Sep 2012
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What would be the biggest 3s battery I can fit into the 50mm t45 without effecting it's flight characteristics too much. I use 800mah 40c now. I'd like to get more flight time instead of just 3 minutes.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:13 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Not the 6000 on 4S, the Wicked 4800KV on 4S @ ~430 watts. I flown many of the 50mm series and you will find most when flown on ~400 watts will be in the 85 mph range, the the F16 on the same watts will be about 95 mph and the Screamer will be about 100 mph. (A few are slower like the F22 and F35). So the Screamer has the best speed potential.

I have seen Youtube videos with the the use of a GPS speed meter called "Voltron" I think. The speeds it reports are way off. A model that is really flying ~115-120 mph will be reported on that GPS logger as 140-150mph.

Don
GPS is a subject that I can wax on about for hours !! I ruin various GPS forums and am a Navigator by trade originally.

Problem with GPS and especially with the small modules used for models is sampling and also trajectory. This is additional to the GPS recording speed relative to ground and NOT airspeed.
GPS navigation instruments usually have options to adjust sampling - that is the time interval of calculation of position and therefore speed. This makes the GPS vulnerable to speed errors as it calculates speed by comparing position to next position ... if set to small an interval the speed displayed can be widely variable even if vehicle stays constant speed. If set too wide - the speed can be in error as it misses items.
Trajectory ... GPS is usually calculating speed as a level solution based on position to position ... so a model diving can be recording wrong speed.

For me - airspeed is the important measure ... Why ? Airspeed is the real speed of the model itself ... so I value my Pitot sensor. But I also value with and against wind flight runs for doppler. The two will technically cancel out the wind once added together and divided by 2.

Back to the 6000kv ... so you have that for 3S ?

Nigel
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:24 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike20 View Post
What would be the biggest 3s battery I can fit into the 50mm t45 without effecting it's flight characteristics too much. I use 800mah 40c now. I'd like to get more flight time instead of just 3 minutes.
With approx 25gr added to tail - I can run a 175gr Zippy Compact 4S 1600 35C LiPo up front ... I've also run a 194gr Turnigy Blue 2100 3S 35C but that is just a little too nose heavy.
If you want to run Nanotechs ... then just use the weights I gave .. as I have had no luck at all with nanos ... I won't have them anymore.

If you were to remove the servo for elevator from front saving 9gr ... and replace with two small 4.5 or 6gr servos at rear ... that would be enough to tip the CoG sufficiently to run the similar weight LiPo's as I do without need for tail weight.

To get the above in - I had to do a little surgery to the battery area ... and make sure the Rx can slip in under the servo. Leaving of wheels / removal of nosewheel gear helps as well ....

Nigel
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Joined Sep 2012
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I haven't had an issue with sky lipos. But I'm always up for advice on batteries. I was looking at the 1300mah batteries. But my concern say it says max continuous amps are 50 amps. What would the continuous be? Cause the stock ESC is only 20 or 30 amps. Unless I put the new 50 amp in there. I was looking for longer flight time but at the same time I don't want to add a lot of weight. Doesn't that mean more drag on the plane?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:06 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
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I flew mine on stock with 1300 3S and it was far better than the measly 850's .. The main conisderation is to give it at least 25C or better.

Weight can be bad if not done carefully - we would all where possible make the weight work for us .. but sometimes you have to add it pure and simple. I wanted to use decent size packs and with the 25gr at back end - I had 1800 3S 25C packs in there ... flight times of 6 mins or more on stock. Speed was definitely up and flyability greatly improved.

I've read plenty reports of large packs in there with no tail weight ... so I would guess that putting a 1300 - 1500 3S in without weight should be ok.

Nigel
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