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Old Oct 30, 2012, 11:19 PM
Wonderfully Wicked
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Willoughby, Ohio
Joined Jan 2002
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The 4800 wemo is a 4S setup not intended for 3S. I run 4S 1320 30C lipos on that motor fan combo as it wants pull about 27-29 amps on 4S so you need a lipo up to the task.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 06:46 AM
Augermeister
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United States, TX, Keller
Joined Jul 2011
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Roger that !
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 07:58 PM
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Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Jan 2012
127 Posts
Looking for some tips

So I've finished the assembly of my F-16 but I'm struggling with the battery placement. I've got Zippy Compact 1000's and Nanotech 1300's and I'd like to be able to use both. I'm wondering if it's bad to remove that EPO divider that separates the battery bay from the rx/esc area?

Does anyone have any pics or suggestions?
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:06 PM
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United States, AR, Jacksonville
Joined Jul 2004
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That divider is glued in place, you can pull it out with some effort. Just go slowly... I had experienced no negative consequences from doing that in my old F-16.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:20 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Latvia / UK visits
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusDriver View Post
So I've finished the assembly of my F-16 but I'm struggling with the battery placement. I've got Zippy Compact 1000's and Nanotech 1300's and I'd like to be able to use both. I'm wondering if it's bad to remove that EPO divider that separates the battery bay from the rx/esc area?

Does anyone have any pics or suggestions?
The F16 is notorious for small battery space !

Enlarging battery areas by removing dividers (these are usually more for keeping sides squared up and supported) is usually not a problem. My method of regaining the stiffening is to use thin balsa sheet along the sides or bottom to line the area. I do not use CF or rod as I found that localised stress, didn't allow any flex in a crash. The light balsa is virtually no weight if done well. It also gives a better anchor for battery hold-down.

I also add a small chunk of sponge between LiPo and any Rx / servo as a cushion.

Nigel
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:34 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Joined Jan 2010
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Forgive me for this ... but I read some posts about fitting Gyros etc. and get impression that some new to Gyros think that will solve torque roll and other hazards on launch ... sadly this is highly unlikely.

I use gyros on fixed wing and helis ... the Gyro relies on either a rotor blade as on a heli to provide the 'thrust correction' or airspeed over control surfaces on a fixed wing ... Thrust Vectoring excepted of course..... meaning that Gyro will have little or no control of model ... making some gyros over-react ...

This leads to some over sensitizing the gyro to get some degree of function at launch / low speed .. which then leads to over-sensitive gyro and wing waggling at higher speeds.

I have experimented with having the sense of a gyro via a pot on TX ... so I could vary this depending on flight speed ... but in the end it was more trouble than worth. I eventually removed the gyro on most of my fixed wings.

My T45 has over 1.2 to 1 thrust to weight ratio and even at full throttle launches has little or no torque roll ... and she has a heavy Turnigy 5000kv Outrunner motor ... so I am surprised at some comments about outrunners producing torque roll etc. I also had Inrunners of 4890kv fitted at one time before realising a modification to the motor mount to allow the outrunner to fit. Difference ? The Turnigy Outrunner is a better motor IMHO and no difference in launch.

The best solution to all launches really is the bungee catapult ... a truly independent on your own no worries launch system. My T45 has been V3 speed recorded at over 113kph on exit of the rails of my launcher ... far more than needed to have control authority ... she launches dead straight and true ... as do all my pushers and EDF's ...
For about $30 and an hours work ... one the best investments ever.

Contact me if anyone wants detailed construction notes / diagrams ..

Nigel
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:40 PM
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United States, CA, Chino
Joined Oct 2007
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You ever had an un-controllable roll off the bungee launch Nigel? It's weird, but it does happen.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:50 PM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
3,964 Posts
we bungee all the time w/ nothing but the bungee tied to a fence post . no ramp needed. pull her back and down , let her rip.

the down side to any bungee launch is that any out of trim issues will be magnified , quickly!!

chuck.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 09:30 PM
Mike
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Nigel, I see your point and it does makes sense and a convincing argument. I am not calling you out, but am sharing my experience which shows that gyros work for me.

I have tested with gyros on my Mirage, T-45, F-16, F-35, T-33 and it really helps a lot with hand launching. I tune down the gains so that it does not oscillate in flight. even after turning down to this level it is effective enough for hand launches.

On my mirage, I have had a lot of unintended tests with hand launching with the gyros on/off. On several occasions after plugging in the battery, they gyro does not work and does not do any compensation for the entire flight. Plugging out the battery and in again usually gets the gyro working again.
On the occasion when they gyro is not working, I get a big surprise when I launch it. It torques badly to the left. After landing (or crashing) I found later find out that the gyro is not working for that flight.

Another example is my F-16 in this video which has a 3 axis gyro. You can see that there were no oscillating during high speed flight, and it was very stable during the inverted high alpha part. Without the gyro, i had a lot of wing drop when attempting the inverted high alpha.

Stunning High Alpha Passes & Buzzes with the 50mm F-16 & F-22 (3 min 32 sec)


Gyros does help and it is not difficult to set it up and tune it.I love them on these small planes as it makes the plane flies like a bigger plane. It does not get knocked around as much in the wind and gusts, but you still have to fly the plane.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 09:39 PM
Registered User
United States, AR, Jacksonville
Joined Jul 2004
397 Posts
Mike,

I never used gyros in my F-16, but the high speed oscillation I observed disappeared after I shifted the CG aft of the recommended location. I posted the CG location on Joe's FAQ thread.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 09:52 PM
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Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey Whiskey View Post
Mike,

I never used gyros in my F-16, but the high speed oscillation I observed disappeared after I shifted the CG aft of the recommended location. I posted the CG location on Joe's FAQ thread.
Where's that exactly?
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 04:27 AM
Augermeister
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United States, TX, Keller
Joined Jul 2011
2,632 Posts
I have the new Ice-Man Bluelight 3-axis stabilization(gyro) system and will be testing in a variety of planes including the Jpowers Katana and Rare Bear : http://www.bluelight-tech.com/ Just getting it setup now but from I can see thus far, it looks promising. Not yet sure about the benefits but it should be interesting to see the results. Looks like there are some non-programmable cheapo systems like the $15.00 HK gyro and there are others that are fully programmable. Mine came with a CD-rom and is fully programmable.

On hand launching, the PVC bungee launcher that Nigel built looks great.Simple and straightforward. I might have to make one.

Miketre, did your 3-axis gyro take out any of the drama experienced on hand launches?

On the Sky Angel F-16, not sure how you get a decent size battery in there. I carved out the canopy and used a Hyperian 850mah 3S 25C from Pat at Niko Hobbies: http://www.nicohobbies.com/store/ind...62dd2ce16cafe2 .

Could not fit a small Zippy or Nano without major surgery. Just ordered a couple of Nano 850mah 4S's for the Katana but I doubt they will fit inside the F-16.

-Hawk
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 06:16 AM
Mike
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Joined Dec 2010
750 Posts
I'm using the eagle A3 gyro as well as the cheap i86AP gyro from HK. As far as I can tell, they are the same. Avoid the orange gyro as it does not support elevon mode.

Yes, it takes out most if not all of the drama out of handlaunching. on my T-45 (modded with rudder) it took out most of the elevator coupling during knife edge flight. My knife edge passes are almost straight without elevator correction.

One of my flying buddies just got his katana and was saying that the he may have to put the gyro sideways because because of the tight fit. This is easily done as all he has to do next is to swap the rudder and elevator connections on the gyro.

On an elevon mix plane like the F-35, I had to put the gyro on its side. No channel swapping, but I turned off the gain for the elevator so that I only have stabilization on the roll axis.

I'm flying my F-16 with a nano 4S 1000mah 25C-50C. It's a really tight squeeze in the rear compartment.
I will carve some foam and remove the centre block as I want to move the battery and CG forward. My current F-16 feels a bit tail heavy.
My previous F-16 had the battery upfront. I'm just being lazy with the current one.
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 06:25 AM
Mike
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Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey Whiskey View Post
Mike,

I never used gyros in my F-16, but the high speed oscillation I observed disappeared after I shifted the CG aft of the recommended location. I posted the CG location on Joe's FAQ thread.
Whiskey, I only observed oscillation when I have the gyro gains too high - usually on the roll axis.
I have not had any oscillation on my F-16 without gyros. Perhaps i have never been that tail heavy.
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 08:54 AM
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United States, AR, Jacksonville
Joined Jul 2004
397 Posts
It oscillated before I shifted the CG back... This oscillation was about the lateral axis though.

Joe's FAQ:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1480110
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