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Old Nov 30, 2010, 05:52 PM
High Altitude Specialist
snivilous's Avatar
Joined Jan 2010
867 Posts
to actually answer your question, which i dont know if anyone has, your thrust must increase to/near 1:1 the closer you get to being perfectly perpendicular to the ground. Im not sure if thats a linear equation or not, but if you want to fly at 89.5 degrees, then you obviously need just below a 1:1 to sustain level flight due to the little air thats getting redirected from your aircraft.
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Old Nov 30, 2010, 11:04 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
Joined Mar 2010
2,061 Posts
There is that guy Jason who mods all the little EDFs like the Starmax F-18 with slats and flaps and he gets them to do all kinds of crazy stuff without TV. That said, George-Styria, that was some demonstration of flight skills.
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Old Nov 30, 2010, 11:49 PM
Carbon fiber is our friend
Steve C's Avatar
United States, CA, Lodi
Joined Feb 2001
4,211 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchit View Post
F16s are great for high alpha slow flight. Don't understand why though.
The strakes produce a vortex at high AOA that basically grabs air and throws it down on top of the wing, keeping it from stalling. You have a lot of drag in this condition, but no stall.

I attached a simple drawing of it.
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 01:07 PM
Registered User
Pittsburgh,PA.,USA
Joined Mar 2006
22 Posts
I think everyone missed what he said? "slow speed high alpha flight maneuvers....???? " It is the slow speed and maneuvers where it gets tricky<g>

Even an old man like me can come straight down the runway at say 30+ mph at maybe 40+ degrees, but I ain't going to even try any maneuvers<g>

Perhaps he will tell what he considers slow and what maneuvers planned?
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 01:16 PM
Registered User
Pittsburgh,PA.,USA
Joined Mar 2006
22 Posts
Erik,

I love the garden, and the molds & baby are nice also<g> Who needs high alpha when you have this.
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 02:06 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
Joined Mar 2010
2,061 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
The strakes produce a vortex at high AOA that basically grabs air and throws it down on top of the wing, keeping it from stalling. You have a lot of drag in this condition, but no stall.

I attached a simple drawing of it.
Another cool thing I learned on here...thanks.
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 02:19 PM
My project: FAIREY DELTA 1
Erik v. Schaik's Avatar
Uden Volkel, Netherlands
Joined Dec 2003
4,976 Posts
Hi Richie,

Thx for the nice comment!
Yeah I know I have a very high wishlist
greets!
Erik
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 04:06 PM
High Dynamic Thrust
stoneenforcer's Avatar
United States, FL, Mt Dora
Joined Feb 2007
2,295 Posts
its is possible on some models. My Jepe F16 90mm on 6s,... I could put into a nice HIGH alpha easily from one side of the field to the other. pretty much walk the thing on its tail.
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 05:47 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Mission Viejo
Joined Jan 2005
2,260 Posts
Perhaps he will tell what he considers slow and what maneuvers planned

Yes I can.

I am thinking of a slow speed routine like what I see the Mig 29 do. It almost seems to be flying in slow motion.

Rather than zooming down the runway at 200 miles per hour and being out of sight in a matter of the blink of an eye.

My idea is for a close in routine that could be flown in a small confined area.

Right in front of you. Seems like a lot of the response is right down this alley.

I am thinking its going to be more like a 3D model. I was just looking for a bit of realisim, not a flip and flop all over the place flyer.

Thanks for the input guys....
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 06:57 PM
turbonut's Avatar
upland CA
Joined Dec 2004
7,352 Posts
lots of thrust and thrust vectoring will fix it! then
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 10:20 AM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2010
162 Posts
I agree with you Air Head. I used to pylon race 180-195mph and flying a jet that way requires lot of distance and height. Having it close to you and doing tricks is much more fun. I added the second thruster and canards and can now fly 45 plus degrees or better slowly and recovers from rocking nicely. With a 5mph or better wind, I can toss the jet at 1/2 throttle and at 45 degrees can hover in front of me. The guys call it "The jet that goes nowhere". I am now working at doing a inverted harrier and then trying to do an high alpha inverted across the field.
If you want to duplicate mine, I will send you some pictures of my setup for the F-22.
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 07:14 PM
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United States, CA, Mission Viejo
Joined Jan 2005
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I will send you some pictures of my setup for the F-22

Why not post some here?

The F22 looks like it would be a good design for this sort of thing.
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 07:49 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
ApexAero's Avatar
Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
4,439 Posts
I have to throw in my thoughts on the purpose of strakes or lex from what I've learned at the field from some pratt and whitney guys, yes the privious picture shows the vortex created at high aoa but the creation was to keep a super critical airfoil controlable and flying at lower speeds. They stall the inboard first allowing the tips to fly. The best by product was to direct air into the intakes at high aoa. Its what I heard from the rocket scientist dudes is all I'm saying. I guess a vortex wash onto the top is a by product at higher aoa, vt tech came later.
Tom
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Last edited by ApexAero; Dec 09, 2010 at 10:09 AM. Reason: picture added
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Old Dec 08, 2010, 06:15 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2010
162 Posts
Airhead:
If you would like to duplicate it including the thrusters, willing to share design.
Are you going to use bluecore foam?
Do you have a 64mm fan and motor?

As you can see, I modified a standard F-22 design(lower picture) added a 360 thrust vectoring gimbal, added my own design thruster that allows air from fan to exit out at end of wing to counteract torque so it lowers rocking of wing at high alphas,(now have it on both wings) and added canards.
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Last edited by aero1960; Dec 08, 2010 at 06:22 PM.
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Old Dec 08, 2010, 07:31 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Mission Viejo
Joined Jan 2005
2,260 Posts
4500 Watt Fan Setup

Actually is a 4500 watt fan setup. Shooting for 13-14 pounds of thrust.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1324088

Knife Liddle has put together a $100.00 setup that I am going to play with.

I saw a video of a turbine flying a 3D routine. I was not thinking to that extreme, but something that will fly a lot slower than the supersonic speedsters.

I may see if I can put together a vectored thrust nozzle for this.

aero 1960 - I like your wing tip thruster idea. Are you able to control the air or does it just bleed off the thrust tube?
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Last edited by Air Head; Dec 09, 2010 at 01:04 PM.
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