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Old Oct 07, 2001, 11:46 PM
Real Men Fly Pink Planes...
kepople's Avatar
United States, TX, Rockwall
Joined Jun 2001
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Next Best Thing to a SKAT?

I am looking for a small pylon plane like the Diversity models SKAT.

Should be a Speed 400, just as fast with a 28-30" wingspan.

Suggestions?

Thanks
Kirby
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Old Oct 08, 2001, 07:24 AM
Tork it or Dork it
Ryan Nau's Avatar
Elizabethville,PA USA
Joined Jul 2000
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Buy a Stinger. ( www.f3x.com ) It is almost the same size as the Skat. But it goes faster. I have a Skat and really like it very much, my stinger is about half finished and should soon be up in the air. on www.nesail.com they also have a whole bunch of 400 plyon planes on there site.
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Old Oct 08, 2001, 12:25 PM
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Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong
Joined Apr 2001
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Based upon input from others, why don't you look at a Sokol which NE Sail has, Starflight has it as well. I'm planning to try one out once money becomes available. (the 020 is going into it) go fast it does.

The Sokol has a 28" span and weighs 11-12 oz rtf
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Old Oct 08, 2001, 09:48 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Ask three people...

The sliver is probably the closest to the skat..
The stinger is MUCH smaller!
The sokol is about the same in wing are, but much larger (roomier) fuse..
..a
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Old Oct 09, 2001, 04:20 AM
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Ooooh Andy, that's going to leave a bad taste in Campbell's mouth! In any case, I'd have to disagree with you, the Sliver is much different from the SkaT. If you like the look of a t-tail, I'd guess the closest thing might be the Sokol (never seen one so can't compare them) or that other new plane that's come out.
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Old Oct 09, 2001, 05:47 PM
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United States, MI, Commerce Charter Township
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Sorry Scott, no dice. Not many people have seen a Sliver in person, so I don't blame him for not being able to differentiate between the two. In fact, it's almost understandable because they came out the during the same month. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges though.

I've been going out of my way to stay away from the Stinger in forums. It's hard to say anything about other racers that isn't immediately taken as biased. It's a fast airplane, no doubt-I don't know how it does on the course. The people in the US that are racing 400's that I know of would be jumping up and down for joy if they were even close to the lap times that have been turned with a Sliver. Yes, the record was set last year, but it's still 15 seconds faster than any of the small winged racers have managed. That's two whole laps in a ten lap race.. There's a reason for that 165sq. in. wing!

If you want to go fast, the Stinger is the only 400 racer on the market that has any speed on the competition-and it's a lot! The fuse shape is good too. That little wing means that it doens't turn too well though. If your motive is to go like hell on Sundays at the field, then get a Stinger. If you want to win 400 pylon races, get a Sliver.

You guys might also be interested to note that Sergey himself doesn't call the Stinger a 400 racer. He calls it an F5D-400 for a reason.. It needs a bigger course for the small size to make sense. People aways talk about how this racer is faster than that, never realising that a 400 racer never reaches top speed on the course anyway.

Just a lot of non-racers talking authoritatively about what a racer is in IMHO. Just because it has a 400 in it and a 400 motor, doesn't make any airplane a "400 Racer". Hell, a Zagi could be a "400 Racer" couldn't it? Look at the similarities in F3D and Q40 racers. It's not the motor that makes the classification..


Dave
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Old Oct 09, 2001, 06:03 PM
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Elizabethville,PA USA
Joined Jul 2000
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Who sells the Sliver (internet sites) I don't know what they look like.
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Old Oct 09, 2001, 06:26 PM
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Well, at least that flushed you out Kepople never mentioned anything about racing so quick turning ability may not be all that important to him? If it's sport flying only for him, he may want something that goes similarly fast in a straight line and something that has the same look. The Sokol or the new Hummer just might be what he wants. Wasn't it you that said hardly anyone actually races these things?

Ryan, Campbell sells the Sliver (great flying plane, but, IMHO, less value for the money as far as level of prefab is concerned) and his website is at www.fastcomposites.com. Last time I checked, there wasn't much there, not even a picture of the plane. Check Specialized Model Supply's website, he had a pic there. I'm sure you've seen the Hummer pic...might be the next hot ticket. It's here if you haven't seen it. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...threadid=11780
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Old Oct 09, 2001, 10:17 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
.. so I was correct .. ? When I said closest, I meant 'as fast as or faster'. I consider the skat and sliver to be in a category by themselves, not comparable to the stinger - a properly set up (clipped) skat is faster on the course than a stinger - I know that - although a good pilot can do as well with a stinger as a moderate pilot with a skat or sliver..
I have a skat - not built or flown, but being saved for when I master flying a course with my stinger (of which I have an unbuilt spare, also!)..
..a
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Old Oct 09, 2001, 11:43 PM
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Andy,
I'm not sure what you mean...from personal experience, the Skat is noticably faster in a straight line but the Sliver will turn much quicker with very little loss of speed. If you mean the net effect on a race course is that they are equals, then perhaps you are correct. I just never thought of them being anything alike in flying characteristics.
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Old Oct 09, 2001, 11:53 PM
Real Men Fly Pink Planes...
kepople's Avatar
United States, TX, Rockwall
Joined Jun 2001
8,080 Posts
Thanks for all the input. I did not mean to start an argument, but I love to make trouble. Still cant find a picture of the Sliver.

I have narrowed it down to all the ones you mentioned! ARGHhh.

Andy, wanna sell your SKAT? I will pay a stupid price for it.

Truthfully, I will not race it, but I would like a good climb rate and crazy high speed. It should have a good roll ability, and the ability to make my knees shake.

Which of the Sliver, Hummer, Stinger, Sokol fits the bill the best?

Thanks
Kirby
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Old Oct 10, 2001, 06:51 AM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
kepople, the Stinger would suit your needs - being so tiny, it looks like it's going a little faster than it is. The sokol is also nice, but has almost twice the wing area (although this gives you more options for power - larger motor and battery, perhaps)..

I just meant that I thought the Sliver was closest to the Skat in performance on a course. If the Sliver is actually better overall because of it's turn capability, that's great.. Noted for my records!
..a
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Old Oct 10, 2001, 06:44 PM
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United States, MI, Commerce Charter Township
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Back in the day when the Sliver was brand new(three years ago), there was a lot of talk about a 100mph 400 racer called the Skat. This worried us. So a kit and radar gun were procured to see if there was anything to the rumor. Kit built, the SkaT finished at 12.5oz-every attempt was made to see that the test was one of a best case scenario for both the SkaT and Sliver. After several cycles of the same pack, the power-trains were shifted from plane to plane. The Skat was three mph faster flat and level in a straight line, and EIGHTEEN slower out of the turns. For the record, I had the fastest straightline airplane at the NATs this year. I had three people come to me and tell me so.. I just don't fly nearly as well as Kevin so I didn't win.

Even when not bringing ultimate performance into the equation, it's damn near impossible to compare airplanes just on sight. The racers you see here and there have soo many variables that it's impossible to judge one from the other. One might have a tired motor, one might have a pack going bad, one might be overweight, and the pilot may not be a good flyer. A smaller racer will LOOK like it's faster when it's not. Even at races, if you have one guy who's fast(like anyone who has flown glow pylon before), it doesn't matter what you or anyone else has. The guy with experience will win every time.

Even though people have adapted to fly these types of airplanes over the last three years, the modelling public is still not ready for them. These are all small, finicky airframes. It's difficult to get the best out of them and to keep them in one piece. It's even more difficult to judge them by watching other people fly them.

Personally, if I knew that (Stinger being the exception) all of the 400 racers were within ,say, 5mph of each other regardless of the size, I'd get the biggest one I could. If for no other reason, you'd launch and land much more reliably. A broken plane doesn't get you the trophy..

Andy: I don't want to bash the SkaT because there's nothing wrong with it. It's just not a competitive "racer" outside of SoCal. It was designed by a glider guy. People thought they were fast at the time because that's all most people got to see. On a course, the Skat is easily beaten by a Sliver. Even I lapped a SkaT in my very first race.

There are maybe 90 Sliver kits out there, probably less than 35 completed. The Sliver has always been sold by word of mouth/email so there are few of them out there. By contrast, the Skat has a large fan base because it was a successful enough plane that you could catalog order it. You could actually GET a SkaT when you wanted one. A Sliver was a little harder to find because the original manufacturer was tied into too many other racing commitments. I took over last year and have shipped 39 kits since. They are still made to order, depending on your use. Scott(or is that Yamamoto-I have a first name too..) is right: It's not the value that a Sokol or Stinger is; I don't make a lot of money at this, and they don't fly or race as well.


If you are not racing, buy the airframe that's sexiest to your eyes and go be happy. 6 months later there will always be something faster, so just find a plane you like and enjoy it.

Ever seen a 400 racer thermal? Ever seen a racer that when balanced properly WON'T stall at minimum airspeed with the throttle off and the elevator pulled all the way back? Maybe you guys are looking at the wrong racers?

There, there's my plug.



Dave
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Old Oct 10, 2001, 07:59 PM
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Mr. Dave Campbell,
What were the conditions like for your speed tests? The numbers may not lie, but perhaps there are other variables involved?

Scot
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Old Oct 10, 2001, 08:07 PM
Real Men Fly Pink Planes...
kepople's Avatar
United States, TX, Rockwall
Joined Jun 2001
8,080 Posts
I cant find a Pix of a Sliver. Could some one post one?

How much would a Sliver run Dave?

Is it a T Tail and other specs? Which has a better roll rate?

I am thinking of putting a 480 in it for a little extra. Good idea?

Thanks
Kirby
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