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Old Dec 23, 2012, 11:19 AM
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Dry or worn motor.bearings I would guess.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 11:30 AM
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Well I got 2 flights in this morning, the first about 30 minutes. I was finding some lift in places, I think having the battery where I balanced it made it pretty easy to detect lift so it was enjoyable, but hard to fly at the same time.

The second flight after about 20 minutes ended with an unexpected landing. Luckally the only thing that broke was a pushrod off the right aileron. I am positive the packing tape job I did on the leading edges and the arrow shaft in the fuse kept the plane together though. It was a fairly nasty spill. I was sure there was going to be more damage walking up and was surprised!

For some reason this plane is hard to fly to me. I guess I'm used to more agile warbirds, but I still love sailplanes more. Just being able to soar in silence with the birds appeals to me more than fast moving planes. I just don't understand why my RP is so hard to control. It's almost as if my aileron inputs give me nothing. If I'm in a left bank and need to go right, after giving full right aileron it's like I have to wait on it and hope its not where I don't want it to be before it decides to bank right. And using the motor that's a different story, from 75% up it wants to climb at a 60 degree angle it seems so I'm constantly fighting it with down elevator and everything else. It's just all over the place, I just almost want to refuse using the motor if possible.

On another positive note I did practice gliding into the wind with the nose down and that worked perfectly. All in all if my RP is going straight or has a little bank with a little up elevator to pull it around, it's beautiful and a thrill to fly. But I think it has a fine line of too much roll, or up elevator that once it passes that line it's a complete handful in the air. Is this just me or the nature of gliders?
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 11:31 AM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by jrtubb View Post
Launch was good till about 30 seconds and she lost a lot of power and sounded like a duck quacking! I cycle the throttle a several times and ended up bring her in for a landing. I checked it on the ground and no quacking, so I launched her and no quacking and a nice flight. For the second battery about an hour later it did the same thing.
The intermittent nature of this problem makes me think it might be a problem with the ESC. I have had motors make some pretty crazy sounds with ESC's that were on their way out. Do you have another one you can try?
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by campbellj View Post
Well I got 2 flights in this morning, the first about 30 minutes. I was finding some lift in places, I think having the battery where I balanced it made it pretty easy to detect lift so it was enjoyable, but hard to fly at the same time.

The second flight after about 20 minutes ended with an unexpected landing. Luckally the only thing that broke was a pushrod off the right aileron. I am positive the packing tape job I did on the leading edges and the arrow shaft in the fuse kept the plane together though. It was a fairly nasty spill. I was sure there was going to be more damage walking up and was surprised!

For some reason this plane is hard to fly to me. I guess I'm used to more agile warbirds, but I still love sailplanes more. Just being able to soar in silence with the birds appeals to me more than fast moving planes. I just don't understand why my RP is so hard to control. It's almost as if my aileron inputs give me nothing. If I'm in a left bank and need to go right, after giving full right aileron it's like I have to wait on it and hope its not where I don't want it to be before it decides to bank right. And using the motor that's a different story, from 75% up it wants to climb at a 60 degree angle it seems so I'm constantly fighting it with down elevator and everything else. It's just all over the place, I just almost want to refuse using the motor if possible.

On another positive note I did practice gliding into the wind with the nose down and that worked perfectly. All in all if my RP is going straight or has a little bank with a little up elevator to pull it around, it's beautiful and a thrill to fly. But I think it has a fine line of too much roll, or up elevator that once it passes that line it's a complete handful in the air. Is this just me or the nature of gliders?
I would either try manually coordinating rudder with the ailerons or doing an aileron to rudder mix on the radio.

It really sounds to me like you are nose heavy and so you have up elevator trimmed in (or maybe you have some aileron/flap droop?) and when you add power it becomes more effective and wants to pitch up. I have my CG back around the low 80s (mm from leading edge at the root) because I saw the range in the mods videos back as far as 94mm and was moving it back slowly and when I apply power it accelerates straight and level. I have to add up elevator to get it to climb on launch or, usually, I just launch at about a 45 degree up angle and then adjust it with elevator. mine will launch or glide straight hands off, no trim changes with or without power. This is why I have been hesitant to muck with the tail boom and decalage. I also haven't flown mine since mid-October due to the seasons changing (yeah, I'm a wimp)
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 12:03 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
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Originally Posted by campbellj View Post
It's almost as if my aileron inputs give me nothing. If I'm in a left bank and need to go right, after giving full right aileron it's like I have to wait on it and hope its not where I don't want it to be before it decides to bank right.
There is one thing with this plane that has gotten many beginners into trouble and that is trying to make steeply-banked turns, as you would with a warbird. When you get more of a feel for the plane, you can do that, but for now I would suggest avoiding them.

Try to keep the wings more level by doing gradual, wide-radius turns and feeding in some rudder to get it to come around, and leave those steep yank and bank turns for another day.

Also your comment "I just almost want to refuse using the motor if possible" was dead on. I's not only possible, it is preferable.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
Try to keep the wings more level by doing gradual, wide-radius turns and feeding in some rudder to get it to come around, and leave those steep yank and bank turns for another day.
yep, the more level the wings, the more lift you get out of a thermal. The horizontal surface area is what the thermal acts on. As you bank more and more that component is reduced to the point that in a 45 degree back you only have 70% of the wing area effective (the cosine of the angle) with a 0 degree bank being 100% effective. Bank and yank is great for the slope but not great thermalling. Far better to be doing flat rudder turns.

likewise, the lift from the air moving over the wing is perpendicular to the wing so as you bank you get some of the lift lost to a horizontal component also
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 12:45 PM
Somewhere lost in Texas
Joined Jan 2011
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I'm a Believer now... I've always drifted around 70mm, as per the manual, but today after reading about it here, tried it at, first 75mm, then 80mm back.. Also balanced it laterally, had to add a bit of lead to the left one...

Hey now !! What a difference It seems to be balanced on a marble now, very responsive... But it feels right.

thanks to all..

--Paul
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:04 PM
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United States, FL, Port St Lucie
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Yea I learned day 1 to try and keep the plane level at all times and just try and make wide turns. Problem is I'm so accustomed to bank and tank turns, it's more my nature to do it that way. Banking this plane is the #1 reason I have so much trouble controlling it. I keep crossing that fine line of enough and too much. Once it's too much I have a hard time recovering from it and if I'm not high enough it takes a nose dive to the earth I've found out.

I have Lizardman's setup programmed into my DX8 and I have always used his rudder/aileron mix as he said it makes it easier for his guest flyers. Maybe I should just practice making rudder turns only? Or move my aileron rods one hole out for less movement? Like I said this plane is awesome as long as I keep it level, but roll too much and it dont want to roll back and I get into trouble.

I'm pretty sure I don't have any up elevator trimmed in to fly straight, it's center position is straight checking with a straight edge. Maybe the upward travel under throttle is the angle of the whole horizontal stab acting as up elevator under throttle? Seems a little extreme though. Unless I apply some down elevator on a climb to keep it under control I'm going to be doing a hammer head of some type. I do want it to climb though under throttle, just not as steep. I've tried my best to trim it out to fly straight with no motor whatsoever, which that part is good.

Was also messing around with the Radian last night on Phoenix 4 sim and it flew great! I had a lot of fun with it, but it had rudder still on the left stick so that took a minute to get used to with no turning capabilities from the right stick.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:16 PM
This thing runs real nice...
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Originally Posted by campbellj View Post
Was also messing around with the Radian last night on Phoenix 4 sim and it flew great! I had a lot of fun with it, but it had rudder still on the left stick so that took a minute to get used to with no turning capabilities from the right stick.
Sounds like you're flying mode 2?

Don't let that put you off the Radian.

If you get the real plane you can always plug the rudder servo into the aileron port on the receiver. That way you have turning capability on your right stick.

Works for me.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Nam Lemmi View Post
Sounds like you're flying mode 2?

Don't let that put you off the Radian.

If you get the real plane you can always plug the rudder servo into the aileron port on the receiver. That way you have turning capability on your right stick.

Works for me.
I don't know what mode it is. It didnt bother me, I still had a blast with it. I'm hoping to get a radian soon anyways unless I can figure out how to just mount the wings to my pro...
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 03:22 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
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Originally Posted by campbellj View Post
Problem is I'm so accustomed to bank and tank turns, it's more my nature to do it that way. Banking this plane is the #1 reason I have so much trouble controlling it. I keep crossing that fine line of enough and too much. Once it's too much I have a hard time recovering from it and if I'm not high enough it takes a nose dive to the earth I've found out.
That's what I figured you were doing. It's ok to play around with steeply banked turns at altitude, but you definitely don't want to try it close to the ground. I think that is the number 1 reason people crash this plane. As far as aileron-rudder mixes go, I haven't tried it. When shooting videos, I like to use rudder and opposite aileron to keep the horizon as horizontal as possible. Not sure if that is possible with a mix, but it might be.

It should be easy to put Radian wings on there. I wouldn't make any changes to the fuselage, but just cut, sand, and shim the Radian wings to fit. I just looked at them and it looks pretty easy. It sounds to me like a Radian would suit your flying style.

LOL It just occurred to me that you might have coined a new phrase with your inadvertent typo. "Bank and Tank". That's what happens when you use the B&Y method on a plane that is not designed to fly that way.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 03:39 PM
Upside down, downunder in Oz
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Thornlie, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
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Originally Posted by jrtubb View Post
So I flew my Radian yesterday twice, it has been several weeks. It was a great day and every thing checked out on the ground. Launch was good till about 30 seconds and she lost a lot of power and sounded like a duck quacking! I cycle the throttle a several times and ended up bring her in for a landing. I checked it on the ground and no quacking, so I launched her and no quacking and a nice flight. For the second battery about an hour later it did the same thing. This time I caught some good lift and just flew around.
Did you try another battery pack?? Mine sounds a bit like that when thw battery goes flat
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by campbellj View Post
Yea I learned day 1 to try and keep the plane level at all times and just try and make wide turns. Problem is I'm so accustomed to bank and tank turns, it's more my nature to do it that way. Banking this plane is the #1 reason I have so much trouble controlling it. I keep crossing that fine line of enough and too much. Once it's too much I have a hard time recovering from it and if I'm not high enough it takes a nose dive to the earth I've found out.

I have Lizardman's setup programmed into my DX8 and I have always used his rudder/aileron mix as he said it makes it easier for his guest flyers. Maybe I should just practice making rudder turns only? Or move my aileron rods one hole out for less movement? Like I said this plane is awesome as long as I keep it level, but roll too much and it dont want to roll back and I get into trouble.

I'm pretty sure I don't have any up elevator trimmed in to fly straight, it's center position is straight checking with a straight edge. Maybe the upward travel under throttle is the angle of the whole horizontal stab acting as up elevator under throttle? Seems a little extreme though. Unless I apply some down elevator on a climb to keep it under control I'm going to be doing a hammer head of some type. I do want it to climb though under throttle, just not as steep. I've tried my best to trim it out to fly straight with no motor whatsoever, which that part is good.

Was also messing around with the Radian last night on Phoenix 4 sim and it flew great! I had a lot of fun with it, but it had rudder still on the left stick so that took a minute to get used to with no turning capabilities from the right stick.
One thing you can do to check if it is thrust angle or tail decalage is to do the dive test (UP HIGH). Put the plane in a 45 degree dive and let go of the sticks. Dues it pull up on it's own? if so, something is giving you "up elevator" trim. Might be an incidence difference between the wing and tail if the elevator is level with the stab
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 04:54 PM
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United States, FL, Port St Lucie
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Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
That's what I figured you were doing. It's ok to play around with steeply banked turns at altitude, but you definitely don't want to try it close to the ground. I think that is the number 1 reason people crash this plane. As far as aileron-rudder mixes go, I haven't tried it. When shooting videos, I like to use rudder and opposite aileron to keep the horizon as horizontal as possible. Not sure if that is possible with a mix, but it might be.

It should be easy to put Radian wings on there. I wouldn't make any changes to the fuselage, but just cut, sand, and shim the Radian wings to fit. I just looked at them and it looks pretty easy. It sounds to me like a Radian would suit your flying style.

LOL It just occurred to me that you might have coined a new phrase with your inadvertent typo. "Bank and Tank". That's what happens when you use the B&Y method on a plane that is not designed to fly that way.
Now that you mention it, the way the mix is working on my plane is if I give it right aileron I get right rudder, which is helping it go past that roll point that I don't want. And vice versa. I've always used the mix thinking it would make it easier to fly, but now that I put 2 and 2 together going on a hard bank to the right, adding in the right rudder from the mix is actually taking the nose to the ground. Kind of how I always messed up learning to use rudder to hold my knife edge with my warbirds. It has to be opposite to hold the nose up at that point.

That's probably the reason I've crashed so much is because Ive learned to use opposite rudder with the sim, and when i try to turn this plane my opposite rudder is actually taking the rudder back to center, then if my left thumb moves back to center and im in a steap right bank the right rudder mix is kicking back in and sending the nose down if that makes sense.

I wonder if the actual mix was supposed to give it opposite rudder to help keep it level, only reason is because when I loaded it into my TX it gave me the message that it was created with an older version and needed to check the control surfaces and make sure nothing was reversed. I'm thinking that the software update didnt fix that mix and I never caught it until now. Maybe Lizardman will chime in soon and let us know how it's designed to work. Surely it's supposed to be opposite.

And yes "bank and tank" hits the nail on the head. That's exactly what's been happening lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coreman View Post
One thing you can do to check if it is thrust angle or tail decalage is to do the dive test (UP HIGH). Put the plane in a 45 degree dive and let go of the sticks. Dues it pull up on it's own? if so, something is giving you "up elevator" trim. Might be an incidence difference between the wing and tail if the elevator is level with the stab
I will definitely try this next time and see what happens.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 05:01 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
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You have it right. The normal mix is that when you go left aileron, you also get left rudder with it. That is the way to get a proper coordinated turn without doing it manually. I may have confused you with my question because what I was wondering was, if you have the aileron-rudder mix enabled...is it still possible to override it on the fly?

Rudder with opposite aileron is useful for knife edges and flat spins, but for normal coordinated turns, yours is set up correctly.
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