SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:17 PM
I Fly!
jrtubb's Avatar
United States, AL, Huntsville
Joined Jan 2011
1,311 Posts
That plane looks pretty good considering. I was bummed pretty bad when I cracked my fuselage in half on a landing due to reversing the elevator mix the wrong way with flaps!

I use White Gorilla Glue to glue it back, and keep the outside of the fuselage clean from the expanding foam by using clear packing tape on the outside of the crack. I had some leading edge damage on my Albatros, similar to that from a mid air, that I fixed by filling in with Gorilla Glue. Put packing tape on the bottom and start filling it in. you can let it expand past the surface and then cut / sand it smooth to match the leading edge curve.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/gorilla...ive-52012.html
jrtubb is offline Find More Posts by jrtubb
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: New Eflite Carbon Cub!
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:27 PM
Registered User
campbellj's Avatar
United States, FL, Port St Lucie
Joined Jan 2011
153 Posts
Yea it's in great shape considering the fall. Honestly I was expecting to find it (if i did) completely crushed and unuseable. I just wanted my battery back and any other reuseable parts for spares.
campbellj is offline Find More Posts by campbellj
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:49 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
3,073 Posts
The small leading edge nicks can usually be fixed just by running hot water over them. That allows the foam to expand fairly close to it's original shape. If it's not enough you can use a little spackle to fill them in.

Since you don't have the piece that fits in near the wingtip, the best approach is to cut more foam so you have a neat, rectangular slot with straight edges. Then take a small block of packing foam and glue it in there. After the glue has dried, it is easy to cut and sand it to the right shape.

That is a frustrating feeling when your plane is downwind and you are unable to bring it back. Good on you for finding it.
Jovanx is offline Find More Posts by Jovanx
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 04:21 PM
Kit Manufacturer
coreman's Avatar
United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
3,558 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtubb View Post
That plane looks pretty good considering. I was bummed pretty bad when I cracked my fuselage in half on a landing due to reversing the elevator mix the wrong way with flaps!

I use White Gorilla Glue to glue it back, and keep the outside of the fuselage clean from the expanding foam by using clear packing tape on the outside of the crack. I had some leading edge damage on my Albatros, similar to that from a mid air, that I fixed by filling in with Gorilla Glue. Put packing tape on the bottom and start filling it in. you can let it expand past the surface and then cut / sand it smooth to match the leading edge curve.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/gorilla...ive-52012.html
Yep, or use painters tape and keep pressing the expansion into shape
coreman is offline Find More Posts by coreman
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Off to HHAEFI we go!
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:04 PM
Registered User
cliffkot's Avatar
Joined Jun 2010
706 Posts
Measuring Decalage Angle

For those of you who prefer the measurement method of adjusting the decalage, here is a way to make it consistent every time.

I initially followed the suggestions in Paul Naton's Radian video for measuring and adjusting the decalage angle, but found the setup to be a problem. Paul stresses the need for properly block the fuselage, but although I used care in blocking it up, the weight of the Robart instrument contorted the H stab and I could never get a consistent result. Whenever I attempt something like this I always tear down the whole setup and redo things at least a half dozen times untilI I get the same reading each time. That way you know that you are getting something close to the truth. I became very frustrated and finally just estimated a number and later discovered that I was off by about 1/2 a degree. (Actually I'm glad it happened because I love the way things turned out by accident. My decalage is about 1 degree.)

In my quest to improve the process I found a device that allows you to accurately measure decalage and calculate the adjustment to get it bang nuts on every time, all without going through too much setup effort. What I do is setup the Robart on the main wing and place a lightweight pocket level on the H stab. Then I block the fuse to level the stab and read the decalage angle directly on the Robart. It is so simple, you can do the whole procedure in about 30 seconds.

You then draw a baseline representing the H Stab on a piece of paper and another line intersecting the baseline at the measured, stock decalage of your plane. Then mark off the baseline so that you have a line segment equal to the width of the H Stab and measure the distance between the baseline and the line representing the decalage at that point. You will then be able to calculate the number of mm per degree and calculate the adjustment you'll need to make to achieve your preferred decalage angle. You get perfect accuracy every time. It sounds complicated but it really isn't.

The pocket level I use weighs only a few grams and does not distort the stab in anyway. Before you try to make the measurement first "calibrate" your Robart. Make sure the bubble level on the Robart and the bubble on the pocket level agree. You might have to sand the pocket level a bit. Also note any error in the Robart meter, ie. difference beteewn the meter center and the bubble center -mine's a neede width off. You have to add or subtract the error when you make a measurement. Doing this will allow you to check your decalage angle within about 0.1 degree every time without error. Make sure you use a magnifying glass when you do all this.

Here is the device. It is extrememly light weight and costs about $2. Find it a your local big box home center.

Cliff

PS - Disengage your pushrod and use popsicle sticks as clamps at the ends of the stab to hold your elevator neutral when you make the measurements and any adjustment.
cliffkot is offline Find More Posts by cliffkot
Last edited by cliffkot; Dec 12, 2012 at 05:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:08 PM
Kit Manufacturer
coreman's Avatar
United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
3,558 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffkot View Post
For those of you who prefer the measurement method of adjusting the decalage, here is a way to make it consistent every time.

I initially followed the suggestions in Paul Naton's Radian video for measuring and adjusting the decalage angle, but found the setup to be a problem. Paul stresses the need for properly block the fuselage, but although I used care in blocking it up, the weight of the Robart instrument contorted the H stab and I could never get a consistent result. Whenever I attempt something like this I always tear down the whole setup and redo things at least a half dozen times untilI I get the same reading each time. That way you know that you are getting something close to the truth. I became very frustrated and finally just estimated a number and later discovered that I was off by about 1/2 a degree. (Actually I'm glad it happened because I love the way things turned out by accident. My decalage is about 1 degree.)

In my quest to improve the process I found a device that allows you to accurately measure decalage and calculate the adjustment to get it bang nuts on every time, all without going through too much setup effort. What I do is setup the Robart on the main wing and place a lightweight pocket level on the H stab. Then I block the fuse to level the stab and read the decalage angle directly on the Robart. It is so simple, you can do the whole procedure in about 30 seconds.

You then draw a baseline representing the H Stab on a piece of paper and another line intersecting the baseline at the measured, stock decalage of your plane. Then mark off the baseline so that you have a line segment equal to the width of the H Stab and measure the distance between the baseline and the line representing the decalage at that point. You will then be able to calculate the number of mm per degree and calculate the adjustment you'll need make to achieve the decalage angle you want. You get perfect accuracy every time. It sounds complicated but it really isn't.

The pocket level I use weighs only a few grams and does not distort the stab in anyway. Before you try to make the measurement first "calibrate" your Robart. Make sure the bubble level on the Robart and the bubble on the pocket level agree. You might have to sand the pocket level a bit. Also note any error in the Robart meter, ie. difference beteewn the meter center and the bubble center -mine's a neede width off. You have to add or subtract the error when you make a measurement. Doing this will allow you to check your decalage angle within about 0.1 degree every time without error. Make sure you use a magnifying glass when you do all this.

Here is the device. I only weighs a few grams and costs about $2. Find it a your local big box home center.

Cliff
I agree with your method and suggest one improvement. Do the measurement both right side up and inverted then there is no issue with the weight of the level and you know the true amount to adjust
coreman is offline Find More Posts by coreman
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Off to HHAEFI we go!
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:29 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
3,073 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffkot View Post
For those of you who prefer the measurement method of adjusting the decalage, here is a way to make it consistent every time.
This sounds like a great way to measure the angles on a Radian. As far as the Radian Pro is concerned, I think the method you proposed a couple of days ago makes more sense. Any attempt at measuring angles on the washed out wings of a Radian Pro ends up being a judgement call. I like your idea of looking at the amount of down-trim on the elevator, and then guessing how much of an angle change it would take to make that go away.
Jovanx is offline Find More Posts by Jovanx
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:38 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
I still think that 0 angle should be measured against the average incidence of the wing. The wings have washout and so the incidence decreases as you go outward. The average point (based on total wing area) is probably somewhere near the outboard tip of the flaps. That's where the real zero point of the entire wing probably lies.

A good mod would be to have a stab that is adjustable with a screw so you could do a little trial and error.
JumpySticks is offline Find More Posts by JumpySticks
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:40 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
3,073 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
I still think that 0 angle should be measured against the average incidence of the wing. The wings have washout and so the incidence decreases as you go outward.
+1...that's exactly what I believe too. It's all so much simpler with the standard Radian.
Jovanx is offline Find More Posts by Jovanx
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:45 PM
Registered User
cliffkot's Avatar
Joined Jun 2010
706 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
This sounds like a great way to measure the angles on a Radian. As far as the Radian Pro is concerned, I think the method you proposed a couple of days ago makes more sense. Any attempt at measuring angles on the washed out wings of a Radian Pro ends up being a judgement call. I like your idea of looking at the amount of down-trim on the elevator, and then guessing how much of an angle change it would take to make that go away.
Yes, I too like the empirical method for the reasons you mentioned, but many people prefer to have benchmark numbers. The level method I outlined will allow you to do this with very high accuracy and repeatability. It is also a good way to transfer your adjustment from one plane to another. So once you know what you like, you can set up your replacement plane with the exact settings on that sad day when the inevitable happens.
cliffkot is offline Find More Posts by cliffkot
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:53 PM
Kit Manufacturer
coreman's Avatar
United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
3,558 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffkot View Post
Yes, I too like the empirical method for the reasons you mentioned, but many people prefer to have benchmark numbers. The level method I outlined will allow you to do this with very high accuracy and repeatability. It is also a good way to transfer your adjustment from one plane to another. So once you know what you like, you can set up your replacement plane with the exact settings on that sad day when the inevitable happens.
Especially in the case where the two fuselages aren't the same. We have read about lots of variations from plane to plane
coreman is offline Find More Posts by coreman
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Off to HHAEFI we go!
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:57 PM
Kit Manufacturer
coreman's Avatar
United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
3,558 Posts
Oh and as far as washout is concerned, that is what it is. If you measure the mean incidence of the wing, you are adding wash in at the root. So my feeling is that you always use the wing root value and any difference you need is washout you need removed
coreman is offline Find More Posts by coreman
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Off to HHAEFI we go!
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:07 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
3,073 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffkot View Post
you can set up your replacement plane with the exact settings on that sad day when the inevitable happens.
I heard that was supposed to happen on Dec 21st. The Mayans said that was the day when all airplanes would go up and never come down. If it's any warmer than 30 below, I will be out there to test it.
Jovanx is offline Find More Posts by Jovanx
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:33 PM
Registered User
campbellj's Avatar
United States, FL, Port St Lucie
Joined Jan 2011
153 Posts
Anyone got any tips for flying the RP in 10-15mph wind?
campbellj is offline Find More Posts by campbellj
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:59 PM
Seeker of Thermals
botulism's Avatar
United States, MT, Kalispell
Joined Aug 2004
660 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbellj View Post
Anyone got any tips for flying the RP in 10-15mph wind?
Yes.
Always keep it upwind. Works a charm.

--
Greg
botulism is online now Find More Posts by botulism
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rave New Parkzone Radian Pro-discussion thread!!! lightspeeddud Electric Sailplanes 3693 Oct 13, 2014 04:57 AM
Discussion Official Radian Pro Thread Magnumb Parkflyers 14 Apr 10, 2011 10:56 PM
Gallery Parkzone Radian Pro Video bakon Electric Sailplanes 6 Mar 11, 2011 05:21 PM
New Product Parkzone Radian Pro bakon Electric Plane Talk 24 Oct 01, 2010 01:39 AM
Discussion Parkzone Radian Pro $229.99 BnF preorder Tekwip Hot Online Deals 10 Sep 29, 2010 04:35 PM