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Old Nov 25, 2012, 05:27 PM
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coreman's Avatar
United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
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Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
There was some luck involved for sure, but a great deal of effort and bashing through bushes was also required. I tied ribbons onto trees to keep track of where I had been.

The failsafe is a function of the receiver, and not the transmitter. The stock receiver does not have it, and I don't believe the AR8000 has it either. All they do when the signal is lost is cut the throttle. I now have an AR6210 which has a satellite and works great, but it also has no programmable failsafe. As far as I know the AR6255 is the step up to this feature.

Did you have a look for the plane?
all those features are nice, if you use them. Putting your name and phone number on the outside of the plane can help a lot also. Especially when you have a fly away where you have no good search area. Up elevator and rudder just make it thermal out. You really need to have it deploy crow or at least flaps and cut the engine
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 05:41 PM
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ddruck's Avatar
Canada, ON, Pickering
Joined Nov 2006
674 Posts
There seems to be some misconception about fail safe here, yes rx must be fail safe capable, but the transmitter must also be capable of programing the fail safe. All tx and rx will cut throttle on signal loss but anything above that, both must be capable. Only higher end transmitters can do that. Failsafe will only work if radio has power, like loss of signal , but is useless if you have power failure, like bad ESC. Also setting Radian for a spiral will totally destroy it on a landing, saw a couple go in that way. Many glider guys will set flap and bit of a rudder to make it come down in shallow slow circle with a chance of regaining control when it gets lower.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
There was some luck involved for sure, but a great deal of effort and bashing through bushes was also required. I tied ribbons onto trees to keep track of where I had been.

The failsafe is a function of the receiver, and not the transmitter. The stock receiver does not have it, and I don't believe the AR8000 has it either. All they do when the signal is lost is cut the throttle. I now have an AR6210 which has a satellite and works great, but it also has no programmable failsafe. As far as I know the AR6255 is the step up to this feature.

Did you have a look for the plane?
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 06:33 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddruck View Post
There seems to be some misconception about fail safe here, yes rx must be fail safe capable, but the transmitter must also be capable of programing the fail safe. All tx and rx will cut throttle on signal loss but anything above that, both must be capable. Only higher end transmitters can do that. Failsafe will only work if radio has power, like loss of signal , but is useless if you have power failure, like bad ESC. Also setting Radian for a spiral will totally destroy it on a landing, saw a couple go in that way. Many glider guys will set flap and bit of a rudder to make it come down in shallow slow circle with a chance of regaining control when it gets lower.
Sometimes I like to put my RP into a tight spiral with rudder and then gradually apply up-elevator and opposite aileron to get it to sort of spin in a fairly flat and friendly manner. If I ever get a system that can be programmed for failsafe, I was thinking of trying that as an option. Your idea also sounds good.

How high end of a radio do you need for this? Would a DX6i do? Once the receiver has lost contact with the transmitter, and it has been programmed, is it not on it's own at that point? At present, none of my receivers can do this, but the next one will, so that is why I am asking these questions?
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 06:54 PM
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Canada, ON, Pickering
Joined Nov 2006
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Yes, I understand what you want but that requires slow input, as you say graduated application .. that cannot, unfortunately, be achieved with simple preset like failsafe or 'SmartSafe'.
As far as radio goes, My DX7 cannot do it, DX6i no, my JR 9503 or the older 9303 can, not sure about the new DX8 or DX7s. Not sure if many manufacturers will bother in the future, with release of new GPS telemetry sensors coming out. You could track it on your iPhone.
I think only the newer AR7000 and up receivers are capable of 'SmartSafe' programing. where you can set control surface positions as well as the usual throttle setting in basic failsafe. The Orange 7 and 9 channel from HK are also programmable for this. The AR6210 is also a SmartSafe receiver.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
Sometimes I like to put my RP into a tight spiral with rudder and then gradually apply up-elevator and opposite aileron to get it to sort of spin in a fairly flat and friendly manner. If I ever get a system that can be programmed for failsafe, I was thinking of trying that as an option. Your idea also sounds good.

How high end of a radio do you need for this? Would a DX6i do? Once the receiver has lost contact with the transmitter, and it has been programmed, is it not on it's own at that point? At present, none of my receivers can do this, but the next one will, so that is why I am asking these questions?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 03:32 AM
Upside down, downunder in Oz
Moby58's Avatar
Thornlie, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddruck View Post
Yes, I understand what you want but that requires slow input, as you say graduated application .. that cannot, unfortunately, be achieved with simple preset like failsafe or 'SmartSafe'.
As far as radio goes, My DX7 cannot do it, DX6i no, my JR 9503 or the older 9303 can, not sure about the new DX8 or DX7s. Not sure if many manufacturers will bother in the future, with release of new GPS telemetry sensors coming out. You could track it on your iPhone.
I think only the newer AR7000 and up receivers are capable of 'SmartSafe' programing. where you can set control surface positions as well as the usual throttle setting in basic failsafe. The Orange 7 and 9 channel from HK are also programmable for this. The AR6210 is also a SmartSafe receiver.
Close, but had to check the names. All Spektrum receivers have 'SmartSafe', where the throttle is returned to low, and other channels arent touched. What you/he meant above is 'Preset Failsafe' where you set all the sticks and switches where you want and the receiver 'memorizes' those positions.for when a Tx signal is lost.

And, yes, later AR7000s have Preset failsafe, earlier ones dont.

Smartsafe is not much good on the RP (or probably most gliders for that matter). The throttle isnt normally on a stick, so on signal loss will stay at what ever it was on at the time. If full throttle, well bye bye. Also, only the throttle channel (Ch 1) of the receiver is brought low, and nothing else that is mixed to it.

So, on mine, to get an (almost) full house wing, left aileron is plugged in throttle channel (Ch 1), right aileron is plugged in aileron channel (Ch 2). My radio (JR DSX9/x9303) is then set to 2 channels for ailerons, and does appropriate mixing/control. Now, in event of signal loss, left aileron goes to low position (remember, ONLY the throttle channel (Ch 1) of the receiver has failsafe), and right aileron stays in last position... Easy to guess what happens.

With Preset failsafe (on higher end receivers}, ALL channels (not just throttle channel) are programmed to a certain position. That is, the position YOU want, and not to low position. This way, you can program throttle back to low, deploy crow, slight rudder etc. More chance of the RP staying in the air while it tries to reestablish comms, or if not, possibly a softer landing.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 09:48 AM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddruck View Post
There seems to be some misconception about fail safe here, yes rx must be fail safe capable, but the transmitter must also be capable of programing the fail safe. All tx and rx will cut throttle on signal loss but anything above that, both must be capable. Only higher end transmitters can do that.
I just had a look at the user manual for the AR6255, which has programmable failsafe. It says all you have to do is put the sticks and switches into your desired failsafe positions before binding it. There is no mention of needing a high-end TX.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:34 AM
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Boulder, CO USA
Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
There was some luck involved for sure, but a great deal of effort and bashing through bushes was also required. I tied ribbons onto trees to keep track of where I had been.

The failsafe is a function of the receiver, and not the transmitter. The stock receiver does not have it, and I don't believe the AR8000 has it either. All they do when the signal is lost is cut the throttle. I now have an AR6210 which has a satellite and works great, but it also has no programmable failsafe. As far as I know the AR6255 is the step up to this feature.

Did you have a look for the plane?
My wife, step daughter and I all went to search Saturday, but no result. I also put an ad on Craigslist. There are something about programming failsafe in my DX8 manual. I will look into this later. Does anyone use the GPS solution?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:34 AM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
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Failsafe

Now this is starting to make sense. I just had a look at the online DX8 manual, and here are the instructions for programming user-specified failsafes. Of course it is assumed that the receiver has that function.

How To Program
1. Insert the bind plug and power on the receiver.
2. When the receiver LEDs blink indicating bind mode, remove bind plug before binding the transmitter to the receiver.
3. LED lights will continue to blink.
4. Move transmitter’s control sticks and switches to the desired Preset Failsafe positions then turn it on in bind mode.
5. The system should connect in less than 15 seconds.

Then I went to my hard copy of the DX6i manual, and it basically said the same thing (on page 19). That means that you do not need a high end tx to do this, and it is all happening in the receiver. It is just that the binding process is a little different than when using the dumbsafe method.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:05 PM
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United States, AL, Huntsville
Joined Jan 2011
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I looked up the BNF Spektrum receiver, AR600, to see what it said about failsafes.

http://www.spektrumrc.com/ProdInfo/F...600-Manual.pdf

Page 5 has how to set it and what it does. From the manual it looks like the receiver sets a low throttle setting and sends no additional signals to the other channels. That is what I read but maybe I'm not understanding this correctly.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:16 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
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Yes jrtubb, you are understanding it correctly. What they call Smartsafe just cuts the throttle and all the other channels "remember their last setting". If you have flaps on the throttle stick and the throttle on a switch...good luck.

In order to get real failsafe settings, you would need to upgrade the receiver to at least a AR6255, or switch brands
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 03:49 PM
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Canada, ON, Pickering
Joined Nov 2006
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Yes, sorry, I guess I should have checked the terminology, it is confusing. I think the old manuals had it different then the current ones. I flew my RP on DX7 and AR7000. I have throttle set on the throttle stick so all my settings work and I do have crow and flaps and reflex setup. I am setting my 9503 now on it to get a true glider setup. According Sherman Knight article, failsafe can be done with throttle on a switch or slider, but maybe only on 9503 or up. It complicated reading. One really needs a radio with sailplane programming to get it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby58 View Post
Close, but had to check the names. All Spektrum receivers have 'SmartSafe', where the throttle is returned to low, and other channels arent touched. What you/he meant above is 'Preset Failsafe' where you set all the sticks and switches where you want and the receiver 'memorizes' those positions.for when a Tx signal is lost.

And, yes, later AR7000s have Preset failsafe, earlier ones dont.

Smartsafe is not much good on the RP (or probably most gliders for that matter). The throttle isnt normally on a stick, so on signal loss will stay at what ever it was on at the time. If full throttle, well bye bye. Also, only the throttle channel (Ch 1) of the receiver is brought low, and nothing else that is mixed to it.

So, on mine, to get an (almost) full house wing, left aileron is plugged in throttle channel (Ch 1), right aileron is plugged in aileron channel (Ch 2). My radio (JR DSX9/x9303) is then set to 2 channels for ailerons, and does appropriate mixing/control. Now, in event of signal loss, left aileron goes to low position (remember, ONLY the throttle channel (Ch 1) of the receiver has failsafe), and right aileron stays in last position... Easy to guess what happens.

With Preset failsafe (on higher end receivers}, ALL channels (not just throttle channel) are programmed to a certain position. That is, the position YOU want, and not to low position. This way, you can program throttle back to low, deploy crow, slight rudder etc. More chance of the RP staying in the air while it tries to reestablish comms, or if not, possibly a softer landing.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 04:31 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddruck View Post
According Sherman Knight article, failsafe can be done with throttle on a switch or slider, but maybe only on 9503 or up. It complicated reading. One really needs a radio with sailplane programming to get it all.
There are 2 unrelated functions that are causing confusion. One is full house capability and that requires a TX with enough channels and mixes. The other function is user-defined failsafes, and that has nothing to do with the transmitter, or with full-house functions. From what I have been reading, it should be possible to get programmable failsafes even from a DX5e (not a computer radio) as long as the receiver was up to the job.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 04:53 PM
Somewhere lost in Texas
Joined Jan 2011
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WOW, I just flew my RP for the first time since setting it up as a full-house glider on my 9303 in sailplane mode. Camber, reflex using flight modes Launch, Speed, Cruise, and Thermal. Flaps are now on the Throttle and the throttle is on a switch. It's a whole new, different plane now.. It's much more responsive and a bit tricky yet, since its all still very new to me..
Wouldn't you know it, the winds picked up and will be howling for the next couple days.. Still, I'm looking forward to get some stick time in as soon as it calms down a bit..

Paul
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 05:01 PM
Upside down, downunder in Oz
Moby58's Avatar
Thornlie, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
249 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
From what I have been reading, it should be possible to get programmable failsafes even from a DX5e (not a computer radio) as long as the receiver was up to the job.
That is correct. Preset Failsafe (User programmable), or any failsafe, is a function of the receiver and not the transmitter.

Most Preset failsafes (on 2.4Ghz systems) are usually done by rebinding the receiver in a special way, with all the sticks, switches, sliders etc set to where you want them in the event of a signal loss. The receiver then memorizes the different positions of the channels. Even tho you may have complex mixing in your transmitter, the receiver only 'sees' a position for each channel and has no idea of mixing.

The receiver just 'thinks' OK, Ch 1 to 15%, Ch 2 to 76%, etc
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Last edited by Moby58; Nov 26, 2012 at 05:24 PM.
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