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Old Oct 17, 2012, 08:58 PM
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I don't own a Radian Pro, but I do fly full house sailplanes using a Futaba 9C Super.

I typically apply about 2-3 mm down on the flaps and ailerons for my thermal camber mix. And, as coreman said, I add a little down elevator in the mix to overcome the added drag so she does not stall.

Thermal flight condition - multiple changes

I prefer my camber mix on a switch so I get the same amount every time. When I switch to camber I also increase the exp to about 50% to soften the touch when I am in a thermal. This is activated by the same switch that initaties camber. The same switch also turns off my aileron to rudder mix. When I am in camber I fly the rudder manually.

Some pilots have two thermal camber mixes. I don't.

Another mix you can try is your elevator to flap mix, also called snap flaps. Some pilots will turn that on when in a thermal so when they apply up elevator they get a little down flap. I don't use it but I have heard that some pilots really like it.

On your 10C you can probably add that to your thermal flight condition so you get camber and e-f mixing if you like.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 09:16 PM
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Yep, I have used the elevator flap mixing and it can work. I tend not to use it now if i have proportional flaps and I adjust the elevator manually to get the best L/D speed

Joel, watch the plane. It will tell you how much is the right amount. it will vary depending on how strong the thermal is (and how much the Stab gets pushed upward)
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 09:46 PM
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Aeajr,

Thanks for the tips! I'm usually one who is giving advice in the power-plane threads, but I have a lot to learn about soaring. I read your Learning to Thermal post in the 'Thermalling for beginners' thread. Excellent info, and very well-written. Great job!

Coreman,

I was watching the plane, but I didn't trust what my eyes were telling me. That was the problem. Gotta trust the aircraft. There are so many parallels to sailing, here. I used to race sailboats back in high-school. Learning to read the sails is the key optimizing "horizontal lift", as well.

BTW - I just ordered Paul Natan's Secrets of Thermal Soaring, High Performance Thermal Soaring, and Performance Tuning For Sailplanes DVDs.

Joel
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Aeajr,

Thanks for the tips! I'm usually one who is giving advice in the power-plane threads, but I have a lot to learn about soaring. I read your Learning to Thermal post in the 'Thermalling for beginners' thread. Excellent info, and very well-written. Great job!

Coreman,

I was watching the plane, but I didn't trust what my eyes were telling me. That was the problem. Gotta trust the aircraft. There are so many parallels to sailing, here. I used to race sailboats back in high-school. Learning to read the sails is the key optimizing "horizontal lift", as well.

BTW - I just ordered Paul Natan's Secrets of Thermal Soaring, High Performance Thermal Soaring, and Performance Tuning For Sailplanes DVDs.

Joel
Outstanding! You will love them!
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Coreman,

I was watching the plane, but I didn't trust what my eyes were telling me. That was the problem. Gotta trust the aircraft. There are so many parallels to sailing, here. I used to race sailboats back in high-school. Learning to read the sails is the key optimizing "horizontal lift", as well.

BTW - I just ordered Paul Natan's Secrets of Thermal Soaring, High Performance Thermal Soaring, and Performance Tuning For Sailplanes DVDs.

Joel
If you can find a copy of the Old Buzzard's Soaring Book by Dave Thornburg it's useful in understanding what your plane is trying to tell you. You have to read the plane as it's there and you aren't. I'm sure it is very similar to sailing in many regards, just complicated by not being there and "flying from the tower". The problem becomes reading at a distance, sometimes quite a distance
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by coreman View Post
If you can find a copy of the Old Buzzard's Soaring Book by Dave Thornburg it's useful in understanding what your plane is trying to tell you. You have to read the plane as it's there and you aren't. I'm sure it is very similar to sailing in many regards, just complicated by not being there and "flying from the tower". The problem becomes reading at a distance, sometimes quite a distance
Coreman,

Thanks for the tips! I've heard great things about that book. I just ordered a copy. Yeah - you nailed it! Reading at a distance is the the key difference, here. Much more challenging than when you're sitting in the same air as the sailboat or plane. Plus - as a power-pilot, I regarded the effects of turbulence as a nuisance - one of those necessary evils of flight that I needed to minimize. I never bothered to truly read the plane, I simply counteracted what the air was doing to it. When flying the RP, I still have to fight my natural tendency to 'fly the turbulence', rather than let the plane naturally react to the surrounding air currents & tell me what's happening up there.

This is great stuff! I enjoy a good challenge & I love learning new things. My fixed-wing RC experience as-of-late has been rather ho-hum, and I've been looking for a good challenge to put some pizazz back into it. I am having a blast!

It's been windy & rainy for the last couple days, so no flying for me. Looks like it'll be Saturday before we get any decent flying wx around here. With luck, the DVDs will show up before then.

Joel
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Coreman,

Thanks for the tips! I've heard great things about that book. I just ordered a copy. Yeah - you nailed it! Reading at a distance is the the key difference, here. Much more challenging than when you're sitting in the same air as the sailboat or plane. Plus - as a power-pilot, I regarded the effects of turbulence as a nuisance - one of those necessary evils of flight that I needed to minimize. I never bothered to truly read the plane, I simply counteracted what the air was doing to it. When flying the RP, I still have to fight my natural tendency to 'fly the turbulence', rather than let the plane naturally react to the surrounding air currents & tell me what's happening up there.

This is great stuff! I enjoy a good challenge & I love learning new things. My fixed-wing RC experience as-of-late has been rather ho-hum, and I've been looking for a good challenge to put some pizazz back into it. I am having a blast!

It's been windy & rainy for the last couple days, so no flying for me. Looks like it'll be Saturday before we get any decent flying wx around here. With luck, the DVDs will show up before then.

Joel
Glad to pass on some knowledge. I went out with mine this morning and found some issues with my flap servos. The arms I substituted seem to have slipped so I will need to get real e-flite ones I think or find which Dubro extended ones work.

I got my CF order today so I will be swapping the wing rod and lining things up to do the Naton tail work. I did get some video today and will see what I have for usable clips. I know I did a full crow landing with the cam looking at me over the nose so that should be cool. Did some low passes as well that looked cool. Did a flight looking down the tailboom also so I can see how much flex there is. I do have the 10mm square CF tube to install to help that some. I will probably start a thread for the work when I do it. I will weigh things and see what I have to square up

Simple little things like a wing getting kicked up and turning back towards it because you glanced a thermal are tough when your mind says to just keep the plane level
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 05:09 PM
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I do have the 10mm square CF tube to install to help that some. I will probably start a thread for the work when I do it. I will weigh things and see what I have to square up
When you remove the existing FG stiffener from the underside of the fuselage, you can see it is curved upwards on the ends, as is the fuselage itself. If you replace that with your CF and force the fuselage to go straight, it will remove some of the decalage angle. If you tinker with the depth of the slot (ends vs middle) you can adjust the decalage to whatever degree you want. When it's there, simply wrap tape around each end to hold it until the glue dries.

In my case, after putting in the tail boom stiffener, no changes were necessary to the stabilizer itself. The decalage is less than one degree. My suggestion would be to do the fuselage stiffening, and then adjust the stabilizer later if necessary.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 05:21 PM
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When you remove the existing FG stiffener from the underside of the fuselage, you can see it is curved upwards on the ends, as is the fuselage itself. If you replace that with your CF and force the fuselage to go straight, it will remove some of the decalage angle. If you tinker with the depth of the slot (ends vs middle) you can adjust the decalage to whatever degree you want. When it's there, simply wrap tape around each end to hold it until the glue dries.

In my case, after putting in the tail boom stiffener, no changes were necessary to the stabilizer itself. The decalage is less than one degree. My suggestion would be to do the fuselage stiffening, and then adjust the stabilizer later if necessary.
That is pretty much what I was planning on. Supposed to have a couple of days of rain so I will probably try to get it started tomorrow depending on how much time I get with "Grandpa Daycare" open for business. I really don't want to have the plane down for very long.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 05:38 PM
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 05:46 PM
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Graupner Cam 11 X 8, on HK 50mm Al spinner, Turnigy 1300 mAh 20-30C 26A Max, <7000 RPM for 30 seconds

See http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1724 for more info

Drive Calc and a Log from Turnigy Super Brain are shown here https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=DBDE7...5DDCB92%211294

Drive Calc is very close to reality and so I suggest you can use that to play with prop and battery combos. Use the T28 Parkzone 960KV motor in Drive calc.

Alan
just for other people that might be using one of the RPM meters, this is a 14 pole motor (took a little digging as I didn't want to pull the motor)
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 05:55 PM
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See this thread

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1646181

On the RP, remove 3 fiber glass stiffeners, keel and one under each of the control rods when adding CF tube. When the bottom of the fuselage is straight rather than curved up your decalage will be near 0. You can tape it in place and do your Robarts or digital level measurements and then do the final gluing.

Digital method buried within these images here seems easier for me

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=DBDE7...5DDCB92%211366 One of these ended up with a <1 degree of negative decalage and it flys wonderfully although it is a Radian.

One CF tube less 3 FG stiffeners. Probably a wash.

Alan
Very true although I think my square tube with round center is a bit heavier than the simple tube. I just figured it would blend in easier with the lower fuselage. I'm planning on doing weights along the way. I did notice from the tailward video I took today I'm not seeing a lot of tail whip. I have a Google spreadsheet all set up for the mods and the prop testing. I just don't want to have everything pulled apart and then get busy and have it down for an extended period
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 06:16 PM
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A little off topic BUT!

anyone ready to upgrade to maybe a little bigger more powerful glider

who said electrics weren't fast


Salto 14s Electric Glider Vs Falcon 120 Turbine Jet (4 min 15 sec)
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 06:52 PM
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 08:32 PM
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Sorry you had to work for that info. You can "feel" the poles with gentle rotation and it is also here pulled apart. BTW it runs fine without the circular clip reinstalled.

Here is the exploded view https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=DBDE7...5DDCB92%211305 12 windings, 14 magnet, 14 poles
yeah, it would run fine since the pull would be INTO the motor being on the backside of the firewall
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