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Old Oct 01, 2012, 01:41 PM
Don't ask me anything...
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Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Basically, I have this.

In normal a glide my throttle stick is forward, for zero flap. If I hit the mix switch the throttle stick is in the full forward position and off she flies, under full power.

If iI'm approaching at half flap and I flick the switch, the flaps retract and I get half throttle instantly.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 01:44 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
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Originally Posted by Woodstock 1 View Post
Yeah, that part can be tricky....
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Well, Danny, you may insist there are no misconception, but you sure have exhibited a few.
Hello Gerry, there we go again with empty comments (and sarcasm), please explain what misconceptions I have shown? particularly where it comes to Throttle - Stick settings so we stay on the subject of the post to which I replied.

If your comment was anything more than an empty comment directed at mocking me with sarcasm, please can you point out which part of your comment serves to provide the reader with information or engage in positive debate.

As I said, I've only flown the RP a bunch of times so it stands to reason that I have a lot to learn about it yet.

However, the issue was about throttle and stick positions, not about flying gliders.


Brgds,

Danny
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:05 PM
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Hmmm. I thought throttle was always on the left, mode 1 or 2, and that it was only the rudder and ailerons that were swapped. Never really tried swapping, hence my ignorance. That seems like it would be a tough adjustment for me at this stage.
JumpySticks,
Mode 1 is usually the way that people flew in the past, and some still choose to fly like that these days. (most, if not all new TX come set standard as mode 2)
One cannot usually do the conversion on his own as it involves opening the TX, it is best done by qualified personnel.

Brgds,
Danny
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:09 PM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by Danny_l View Post
Hello Gerry, there we go again with empty comments (and sarcasm), please explain what misconceptions I have shown? particularly where it comes to Throttle - Stick settings so we stay on the subject of the post to which I replied.

If your comment was anything more than an empty comment directed at mocking me with sarcasm, please can you point out which part of your comment serves to provide the reader with information or engage in positive debate.

As I said, I've only flown the RP a bunch of times so it stands to reason that I have a lot to learn about it yet.

However, the issue was about throttle and stick positions, not about flying gliders.


Brgds,

Danny
For one, you seem wedded to the throttle on a stick. And you also misunderstood the OP's point. He wasn't concerned with mode 1 or 2 and just cited the left stick as an example..

For second, the idea that throttle on a stick makes no sense is wrong in the contest of powered gliders.

Would you please stop with the insults?
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:37 PM
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Gerry,
I'm not trying to insult you., and it would have been nicer if you keep the sarcasm out (I have asked you that in the past).

What I've said is that you made a sarcastic statement and did not substantiate it. it is therefore an empty comment.

Let's keep in mind that the RP is not exactly what most people (in particularly new RP and first glider pilots) will fly in a competition.

Most RP (and other foamie gliders) owners are people who have been flying power planes for a while and want to try a glider without spending too much. (I do not have numbers, but by all means anyone who has numbers can prove me wrong if I am)

Having observed fist hand the manner in which the RP tends to behave when launched with full-throttle, especially in the hands of an inexperienced RP pilot I personally would not make this recommendation without adding that this is recommended only once you have XY flghts. and you feel comfortable that you can keep it under control. (you did mention in the past that this forum is used by new and prospective RP owners as a source of information).

Another reason I would advise against re-locating the throttle activation anywhere else is again directed at the new glider pilot who decided that after flying power-planes he (whe?) wants to fly a glider.

Most of us fly at locations where we have obstacles, be it trees fences, power lines. A person who has flown for months/ years will react in a moment of worry to what he is used to do (pretty much as soldiers do when in harms way, they do what they are trained, in the way they were trained to do when there is no time to think). this means that an inexperienced RP pilot who is trying to avoid flying his RP into a fence and wants to blip the throttle may end up activating anything else but the throttle, ouch.

What I would say to the new RP owner is that If you he is only going to fly the RP or similar gliders, maybe it's OK for him to set the throttle on a switch .On the other hand, if he is going to fly 90% Power Planes and every now and then fly the RP, maybe he should give it some thought first.

Once again, I do not wish to insult you and again I ask you to keep the sarcasm out. I'm sure we'll get along better.


Brgds,

Danny
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:37 PM
Dixie Normious
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Can A da....Ehh!!
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Guys been awhile, nice to see the thread still going strong.

Haven't posted in awhile but i had a mishap with the plastic that the wing bolts into..so i did the 2 strip Velcro mod...simply awesome... wings are actually in there tighter...no slop...thanks who came up with that.
wish i did it along time ago..that with the 6pin connection for AIL/FLAP and LEDS i have wings on in about 1min

Check this out from the other day. It took awhile to over come the fear of flying over the ocean. But once in the air for a few mins, i didnt even think about it..well maybe once...
Knowing that if she went in i was going to get wet...and not having the waterproof back on the GP case. Plus this ant the warmest of waters...even after a Hot summer.

Sorry for the length of the video, but i did cut it down from 25min
Park Zone Radian Pro at the Beach (8 min 35 sec)
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:43 PM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_l View Post
Most RP (and other foamie gliders) owners are people who have been flying power planes for a while and want to try a glider without spending too much. (I do not have numbers, but by all means anyone who has numbers can prove me wrong if I am)
As the OP said, powered flyers bring with them this misconception about throttle on a stick. I merely agreed with him.

Don't forget ESCs can be programmed.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:47 PM
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You're absolutely right, Gerry. There is only one "best way" but it's not the one you think. The best way is whatever setup gives an individual pilot the most comfort and enjoyment. There are no silver bullets. Personally, I would no more fly a plane without proportional throttle on the left stick than i would fly without securely attaching the wings or hooking up all the servos. That's how I learned, that's what I'm comfortable with, and I am plenty capable of running a dial for flaps with my index finger without losing control of the other axes of flight.

I am reminded of a guy I used to fly with. He always had hideously expensive giant warbirds and, to the best of my knowledge, never managed to hit the runway with any of them. Generally his maiden flights would end in a fatal crash after he chopped the throttle, dropped the gear, and deployed full flaps all at the same time while holding a 45 degree banked turn somewhat towards the end of the strip. But? He always knew the "best way" to do everything. One day he was so convinced that he knew the "best way" that he tried to get my flying privileges revoked for doing tailslides, well inside the airspace used for aerobatics and never pointing towards the flight line or spectators, with a Sig Senorita. This was especially ironic because, even though he was concerned about my fully controlled and safety minded aerobatics, he had put a 20 pound Corsair through the windshield of a car not more than an hour earlier. So? The president of the club voiced his concern about doing aerobatics with a plane that "wasn't designed for it" but declined to take any action against a guy who was so convinced that he knew the "best way" that he was positively dangerous.

That was 15 years ago and I haven't been back to that field or paid the club a penny in dues since.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_l View Post
Sorry Aejar,
I beg to differ from your opinion.

First, I dont think that there is a misconception amongst "power pilots" about throttle placement.
Depending which stick is set to be used as Throttle your radio is either set as "Mode 1" (throttle is with the right stick) or "Mode 2" (throttle on left stick)

Most TX can be converted to either mode, and at least where I fly (South Africa), all pilots know this. Which mode you preferr is the first question you get asked at any shop when you want to buy a TX, and if you are new to the sport this is explained to you, so from the moment you get your first TX you know this.



Next, what you are suggesting gives you the option of either having full throttle or Zero Throttle.

I only have ten flights with what is my first glider and may be considered a "glider newbie".
I do, However, have several hundred powered flights and It makes no sense not to me to be able to use less than full throttle.

I find that launching is far more controllable when the throttle is advanced gently (as is any powered flight, and when you use throttle you are not actually gliding but rather flying a glider but a cumbersome powered-plane).
Also, if one needs a bit of throttle on final approach once again it makes more sense (to me) to be able to use less than full throttle.

Fail safe mode can indeed be set with the gear mode (make sure the TX is in the Zero-throttle position when you bind hte RX) but it is irrelevant to me if I cannot have more options other than Zero or 100% throttle.

Brgds,
Danny

Danny, what follows is offered with the greatest of respect, no attack or slight is intended.

I am trying to help you see that your experience is based on flying power planes rather than gliders. Or in flying radios that have no glider software.

To me, a glider pilot, that left stick is glide path control and landing control. If I were to add a motor to a full house glider I would not even think of putting throttle control on the left stick. Left stick is glide path and landing control. ( assuming mode 2 set-up)

My point has absolutely nothing to do with stick modes either. It has to do with maping functions to controls. Regardless of what mode you use, the idea that throttle goes on a stick is nothing more than a convention followed by power pilots. It is not a mandatory position.

If I were to set up a Radian Pro on a DX5e, the flaps would go on the left stick and the throttle would go on the gear switch. That left stick would give me camber, reflex and landing positions for the flaps. Why waste it on the throttle that I use for 30 seconds and perhaps not again for an hour.

For a glider pilot the throttle is there to get the plane into the sky, then switched off and likely not used again till after you land or you decide to reclimb, which may not be for half an hour from the last climb. So why waste a valuable and easily manipulated fine grain control to such a rarely used function?

Detailed and delicate control of the glide path and landing mix is much more important to a glider pilot than throttle control. And if I wanted a little blip of power to get me over that tree because I missjudged my energy, a quick 2 second blip of the motor should be all I need. This is a glider and a glider is flown without the use of a propeller.

If you are primarily a power pilot and want consistency between your power planes and your e-gliders there is nothing wrong with having the throttle on the left stick. But for a glider pilot that is not the optimum use of that left stick. (assuming mode 2 here)

So, when someone says throttle on the left stick, they are talking about the default position for power planes, not the mandatory position. If the receiver places a constraint on which channel has the throttle t han use a different receiver for your gliders. Or put the throttle in the "throttle slot" then map that control to whatever input device you like. This is not "no throttle", it may be on/off throttle, 3 position throttle, or fully range control of throttle depending on where the profile maps it.

For example, on my Futaba 9C Super, I use the left stick for Crow. That moves 2 flap servos, 2 ailerons and the elevator all with the left stick. On my Futaba, my default throttle channel is channel 3. But that left stick is moving channels 1, 2, 5, 6 and 7. Channel 3 is not even involved. If I had a motor on the glider I would put it in channel 3, the default, and map that would be controled by a switch or a side slider or something else.

So, as you demonstrated in your post above, as a power pilot you expet the throttle to be on that left stick. So put it there. The glider police will not dome to your house.

But us glider guiders will use that stick for glide path and landing contorl by preference and that is why the sailplane/glider software in a sailplane radio maps it that way.


Of course, your smileage will vary.


The other fun topic is around where to put the rudder. Guys who grew up on 4 channel power planes can be quite thrown by the idea of moving the rudder to the "aileron" stick, but glider and parkflyer pilots find it quite natural. The article at this link explains why.

> WHAT GOES ON WHICH STICK ON A R/E OR RES GLIDER?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...63&postcount=6
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:55 PM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
You're absolutely right, Gerry. There is only one "best way" but it's not the one you think. The best way is whatever setup gives an individual pilot the most comfort and enjoyment. There are no silver bullets. Personally, I would no more fly a plane without proportional throttle on the left stick than i would fly without securely attaching the wings or hooking up all the servos. That's how I learned, that's what I'm comfortable with, and I am plenty capable of running a dial for flaps with my index finger without losing control of the other axes of flight.

I am reminded of a guy I used to fly with. He always had hideously expensive giant warbirds and, to the best of my knowledge, never managed to hit the runway with any of them. Generally his maiden flights would end in a fatal crash after he chopped the throttle, dropped the gear, and deployed full flaps all at the same time while holding a 45 degree banked turn somewhat towards the end of the strip. But? He always knew the "best way" to do everything. One day he was so convinced that he knew the "best way" that he tried to get my flying privileges revoked for doing tailslides, well inside the airspace used for aerobatics and never pointing towards the flight line or spectators, with a Sig Senorita. This was especially ironic because, even though he was concerned about my fully controlled and safety minded aerobatics, he had put a 20 pound Corsair through the windshield of a car not more than an hour earlier. So? The president of the club voiced his concern about doing aerobatics with a plane that "wasn't designed for it" but declined to take any action against a guy who was so convinced that he knew the "best way" that he was positively dangerous.

That was 15 years ago and I haven't been back to that field or paid the club a penny in dues since.

Exactly. Some people just do things the wrong way, while others are doing things far from optimally.



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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:07 PM
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:16 PM
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I beg to differ, aeajr.

I have a 2 meter ASW28 that simply can't handle full throttle at low speed. It pitches up more than the tiny stab and elevator can handle, goes into a deep stall, and then torque and P-factor take over. It's easy to control if throttle and elevator are both moved slowly forward together. Of course, it doesn't have flaps so there's no pressing need to use the left stick for anything but throttle.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:20 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
[B]
If I were to set up a Radian Pro on a DX5i, the flaps would go on the left stick and the throttle would go on the gear switch. That left stick would give me camber, reflex and landing positions for the flaps. Why waste it on the throttle that I use for 30 seconds and perhaps not again for an hour.
I have a DX6i which I use as a master, and a DX5e as a slave to teach beginners how to fly. They are both reasonably not bad radios for the price. I have not heard of a DX5i but it sounds like a perfect compromise between the two, and you have mentioned it in a couple of your posts. Can you please give me more information about this radio? I really want to get my hands on one.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
I beg to differ, aeajr.

I have a 2 meter ASW28 that simply can't handle full throttle at low speed. It pitches up more than the tiny stab and elevator can handle, goes into a deep stall, and then torque and P-factor take over. It's easy to control if throttle and elevator are both moved slowly forward together. Of course, it doesn't have flaps so there's no pressing need to use the left stick for anything but throttle.
Whatever works for you. As you stated, that is not a full house glider and the discussion is about the set-up of a full house glider, the Radian Pro.

And I don't insist that you move the throttle, only that you can move it.

I prepared this for new glider pilots who had tried the Radian, a R/E/T glider who wanted to fly it on their DX5e radio. Not optimal but possbile. This is how glider pilots set up a full house glider before there were computer radios.


DO YOU NEED A SAILPLANE RADIO?

You can fly the Radian Pro on a Dx5e and an AR500 receiver with a Y cable on the flaps and ailerons. If you use an AR500, it has a second aileron slot that acts like a built in Y cable for the ailerons so they can operate on one channel.

If you move the throttle to the switch and put the flaps on the left stick you can have fully variable flaps. That will give you a lot of flexibility to manually create reflex, camber and variable flaps for landing but you will have to manually apply elevator to each of those mixes to keep the plane flying right.

This is how full house gliders were flown before there were computer radios. The computer radios, like the DX6i, can add elevator automatically but still don't have glider mixes or glider software.

Or you can leave the throttle on the left stick. Then you put flaps on the switch, but then you give up variable glide path control in the form of camber, reflex and adjustable flaps.

To get all the cool mixes that sailplane pilots like, you need a sailplane radio or you need to get real good at using user mixes and you may need a lot of them. But not all of those mixes are necessary. If you have a more basic computer radio, like a DX7 or even perhaps a DX6i, you can get enough mixes working to start to take advantage of that full house wing.

This article, found on the Eastern Soaring League web site, discusses the features and benefits of sailplane radios. It should help you understand what these features do and why sailplane pilots use them when flying full house sailplanes. It also sets some priorities. You may find it interesting.
http://www.flyesl.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=223

The message is that you don't need a $400 sailplane radio to fly the Radian Pro. You can do a lot with a DX6i and more with a DX7 or radios of similar level that don't have sailplane programming. For most sport pilots that is more than enough. And you can even fly it on a DX5e.

If you get real serious about sailplanes, then you can look at those higher end sailplane radios. Of course if you have the bucks, go for the best radio you can afford. The JR 9503, the Airtronics SD10G, Futaba 10CG or 8FG and the Hitec Aurora 9 are really nice sailplane radios.
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