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Old May 29, 2012, 12:24 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by sonny1 View Post
On a flat-bottom woodie wing turbulators are 1/8' x 1/8" , (or similar/running long grain), balsa strips between the main spar and the leading edge running parallel along the length of the wing, connected to slots cut into the top of the ribs in front of the main spar, (roughly the highest point of the airfoil). There are usually two running side by side from root to tip on each wing. They are indeed designed to create some turbulence/drag over the top of the wing to increase lift on the bottom of the wing, and slow the wing down, (hence their use on "floater" type polyhedral wings, which most woodies have.). When covered, there are rectangular "boxes" between each rib from spar to leading edge, which are in effect "dimples".
When I complete the wing I'm working on now, (99"ws Craft Air Windrifter), I'll post a pic of the turbulators installed, it will make more sense then. Only bummer is it's a 1970's kit, and the slots for the turbulators are not pre-cut into the top of the ribs, (pre laser-cut kit, slots were too small to be accurately machine cut), so all 30-some spars will have the be notched individually, so it might take me awhile.

Actually, I found a pic of someone else's WD that shows the turbulators in front of the main spar.

Sonny
Ahhhh yesss. Thanks for the reminder. The Drifter II was my first glider, and it had the 1/8 inch turbulator spars. I launched on a homemade hi-start made of surgical tubing and monofilament.

On that plane the ribs were die cut with notches for the turbulators. I believe the notches were a little shallower than 1/8" so the spars protruded up a little higher than the top of the ribs. So you ended up with three turbulators on the front of the wing chord, including the main wing spar.

Drifter II:
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Old May 29, 2012, 01:25 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
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Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
A steel ball on a rod. Heat the ball on the BBQ, then melt it into the foam to make the dimples.

Be sure to space them evenly.

Frankly I would expect it to have adverse impact on teh lift of the wings but it might make the fuselage more slippery. I would try the fuse alone, first. Maybe something the side of a large marble would work. Not sure what sort of pattern you would need to follow.
That would probably work.
On the other hand I have heard that turbulators are random, and working out just where they go, is a crapshoot.

So I would suggest putting 10 sparklers, spaced randomly on the leading edge.... then light them up and fly, preferrably at night.
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Old May 29, 2012, 01:33 PM
Dixie Normious
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Can A da....Ehh!!
Joined May 2010
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you could use a stencel like this to make it easy to line up! I d like to see a RP with that mod haha

http://www.google.ca/imgres?start=34...:0,s:349,i:148
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Old May 29, 2012, 01:53 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Ahhhh yesss. Thanks for the reminder. The Drifter II was my first glider, and it had the 1/8 inch turbulator spars. I launched on a homemade hi-start made of surgical tubing and monofilament.
Hey Jumpy, how did you make that hi-start? I just bought this kit yesterday and it is going to be my first build. It has been sitting in a basement for years and the guy eventually realized he wasn't going to have time to put it together.

I was thinking it might be possible to electrify it, but it would also be great to try flying without a motor. The biggest challenge is that my first build is going to happen without an instruction manual. The rolled up blueprint is there, but there is no manual.
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Old May 29, 2012, 02:46 PM
Kool Kats Fly RC!! AMA 30462
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United States, CA, Baywood-Los Osos
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Ahhhh yesss. Thanks for the reminder. The Drifter II was my first glider, and it had the 1/8 inch turbulator spars. I launched on a homemade hi-start made of surgical tubing and monofilament.

On that plane the ribs were die cut with notches for the turbulators. I believe the notches were a little shallower than 1/8" so the spars protruded up a little higher than the top of the ribs. So you ended up with three turbulators on the front of the wing chord, including the main wing spar.

Drifter II:
Beauty JS! Mine is one of the later kits of the "X-tail" or "High-Tail" version, yours looks like the original version with "normal" horizontal elevator. I got my kit off of RCG and was surprised that the notches weren't cut in the ribs for the turbulators, which will require quite a bit of tedious cutting. Having lost my old Paragon on a winch launch years ago, (main spruce spar folded on launch), I put together pultruded carbon spars for this build to withstand a heavy-footed launch. I also made a home-made hi-start, but that rotted away years ago too. It consisted of 100' of 1/2" rubber tubing and 100' of 90lb test dacron fishing line with a key ring for the towhook and a red rag as the parachute; stretched out to 400-500' and worked great. I used a tent stake to hold it down to the ground, and wrapped it up on an old cable spool. New ones are available for around $100, and for a Spirit 100 I suggest a heavy duty version Jovanx.

Sonny
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Old May 29, 2012, 05:44 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
Hey Jumpy, how did you make that hi-start? I just bought this kit yesterday and it is going to be my first build. It has been sitting in a basement for years and the guy eventually realized he wasn't going to have time to put it together.

I was thinking it might be possible to electrify it, but it would also be great to try flying without a motor. The biggest challenge is that my first build is going to happen without an instruction manual. The rolled up blueprint is there, but there is no manual.
That was a ways back my friend. If I recall correctly, it was about 25 feet of surgical tubing from a surgical supply store (like what they wrap around your arm when you give blood). Then I tied on maybe 150 feet of 15 pound monofilament with a home made parachute tied to the end. On the apex of the parachute was a hook which attached to the glider. The glider had a well anchored "hook" (really a strong wire pointing straight backward) on the bottom of the fuse facing backward somewhere just ahead of the center of lift. The end of the surgical tubing was anchored into the ground. Then I would hook the hi start to the glider and pull it back as far as I felt that the wing could stand the pull, point the plane up about 30 degrees and let go. Then I would check to see if the radio is on....just kidding....check radio before pulling the hi start. After launch, you modulate the angle of attack to get as much altitude as you can without stalling/spinning or overspeeding the plane. Once you get to the apex of the launch, the hi-start hook would just slide backward off the plane's "hook" and fall back to earth. It's just a poor man's winch.

I recall popping a wing spar or two back in the day from pulling the hi-start too far. That was before carbon fiber though. Just some epoxy and ply reinforcement at the central spar.

I expect there are more precise measurements for the ideal bungee/string ratio for a hi start somewhere in the threads.

EDIT: Here is a link to some good specs for making a hi-start. (The tubing they are selling at that link seems a bit high priced. Shop around).
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Last edited by JumpySticks; May 29, 2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Old May 29, 2012, 05:48 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny1 View Post
Beauty JS! Mine is one of the later kits of the "X-tail" or "High-Tail" version, yours looks like the original version with "normal" horizontal elevator. I got my kit off of RCG and was surprised that the notches weren't cut in the ribs for the turbulators, which will require quite a bit of tedious cutting. Having lost my old Paragon on a winch launch years ago, (main spruce spar folded on launch), I put together pultruded carbon spars for this build to withstand a heavy-footed launch. I also made a home-made hi-start, but that rotted away years ago too. It consisted of 100' of 1/2" rubber tubing and 100' of 90lb test dacron fishing line with a key ring for the towhook and a red rag as the parachute; stretched out to 400-500' and worked great. I used a tent stake to hold it down to the ground, and wrapped it up on an old cable spool. New ones are available for around $100, and for a Spirit 100 I suggest a heavy duty version Jovanx.

Sonny
That's not my Drifter II, just a photo of one I found in the threads. I don't have any pictures of my old planes.....just fond memories.
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Old May 29, 2012, 06:13 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
Hey Jumpy, how did you make that hi-start? I just bought this kit yesterday and it is going to be my first build. It has been sitting in a basement for years and the guy eventually realized he wasn't going to have time to put it together.

I was thinking it might be possible to electrify it, but it would also be great to try flying without a motor. The biggest challenge is that my first build is going to happen without an instruction manual. The rolled up blueprint is there, but there is no manual.
Spirit 100 specs and manuals
http://www.greatplanes.com/discontinued/gpma0550.html

If you build it carefully and build it light you will have a wonderful flying glider. I have flown the Spirit 100 full house kit built and ARF glider. They fly very well.

It can be built as a RES glider or A/E/R/Flaps (full house). If you go full house, don't bother with the spoilers, they add no value and they add weight.
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Old May 29, 2012, 07:20 PM
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United States, CA, Sunnyvale
Joined Mar 2011
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FYI, my lhs just received his shipment of the new DX18. I looked through the manual and it has excellent sailplane support. It seemed like they really thought hard about the programming. And for all you DX8 users, you CAN inhibit idle alarm on the DX18. MSRP is $799.99.
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Old May 29, 2012, 07:45 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
If you build it carefully and build it light you will have a wonderful flying glider. I have flown the Spirit 100 full house kit built and ARF glider. They fly very well.
Thank you very much for the link to the manual! After a bit of reading, it is obvious that I wouldn't have a hope of doing it without the manual. Maybe an experienced builder could get by with just the plans.

I have heard this expression "build it light" and it makes sense for it to be light like any other plane. Other than not using more glue than necessary, what control does the builder have over the final weight?
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Old May 29, 2012, 08:43 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
Thank you very much for the link to the manual! After a bit of reading, it is obvious that I wouldn't have a hope of doing it without the manual. Maybe an experienced builder could get by with just the plans.

I have heard this expression "build it light" and it makes sense for it to be light like any other plane. Other than not using more glue than necessary, what control does the builder have over the final weight?
On an older plane like that you could replace a lot of the stiffeners with carbon fiber. That aluminum wing joiner for example. Anything plywood can be exchanged for a carbon fiber sandwich.

If you plan on building it all according to original specs, then less glue is about the only variable I can think of.
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Old May 29, 2012, 09:44 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
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There are several things you can do to keep things light.

1) Resist the urge to add reinforcements that are not called for in the plans

2) Extra glue doesn't generally help unless the plans call for fillets

3) If you know anything about wood you can find "light sheets and heavy sheets by weighing them. Heavy ones are used for the front of the glider and lighter ones for the back.

4) If you are going to launch with a hi-start, slope soar or put on a motor, the original spar is just fine. If you want to winch launch the original spar is fine again, but you might add a little carbon to the top of the top spar and the bottom of the bottom spar. .014 on the top and .007 on the bottom can make a big difference on the winch. But if not winch, then you don't need it.

Search on threads for the Spirit 100 and you will get all kinds of help.

Have fun!
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Old May 31, 2012, 04:04 PM
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Joined Feb 2012
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Radian Pro full range?

My Radian Pro was good fun until it turned into a free flight model. Not quite specked out it did not respond to any inputs. This was a bind and fly DSM2 AR600 with a DX7 xtr (DSM2) controlling it. Had about a dozen flights with no problem but this was the farthest away it's been. Yes, checked all batteries, contacts, etc. It even worked after the crash, thanks, too little too late. There was a cell tower about 150 yards away but the factory hype says the signal should be secure, right. I have a feeling the DSM2 AR600 is really Not full range in less than ideal conditions. Rx antenna was as installed at factory. Maybe the DSMX is the answer, or switch brands.
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Old May 31, 2012, 04:33 PM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
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Originally Posted by alfyfanark View Post
My Radian Pro was good fun until it turned into a free flight model. Not quite specked out it did not respond to any inputs. This was a bind and fly DSM2 AR600 with a DX7 xtr (DSM2) controlling it. Had about a dozen flights with no problem but this was the farthest away it's been. Yes, checked all batteries, contacts, etc. It even worked after the crash, thanks, too little too late. There was a cell tower about 150 yards away but the factory hype says the signal should be secure, right. I have a feeling the DSM2 AR600 is really Not full range in less than ideal conditions. Rx antenna was as installed at factory. Maybe the DSMX is the answer, or switch brands.
When did you buy the plane? The reason I am asking is because I got mine 7 months ago and it had the new DSMX version of the AR600 receiver. It says AR600 and then in tiny letters are "DSM" and then a big "X". Is that not the one you are using? They have not updated the RP manual or the PDF file for the receiver to indicate the change to DSMX.
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Old May 31, 2012, 05:39 PM
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His DX7 is DSM2.

@alfyfanark - it could be that you had a blind spot where the rx is not seeing the tx. Did you do a range chk with someone holding the airplane in various positions while you were moving the controls from a distance while holding down the range check button?

There is a reason why a lot of composite sailplane guys run a 9ch rx even though it is only a 6ch sailplane. Just for the additional remote rx to give a little more diversity. They do that even with a non CF model. The AR600 isn't an ideal sailplane rx, I changed mine out to an AR7000 right from the get go and I've not had any issues.

Also, you mentioned it was pretty high up. I'm assuming it was in a thermal, a lot of times, when it is caught in a thermal, it doesn't respond very well to inputs. You have to get out of it before it will behave like normal. Did you try to put it into a sprialing dive? or power up the motor to try to get out?
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