HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 13, 2010, 05:37 PM
Registered User
Mobile, AL
Joined Jul 2008
168 Posts
Wrong prop, wrong motor

Don't matter; it won't be what you paid for.
lloyd3521 is offline Find More Posts by lloyd3521
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 13, 2010, 05:50 PM
Registered User
Phoenix, Arizona
Joined Apr 2009
256 Posts
Better Crow Setup for DX6i

This video by Eganwp shows a better implementation for CROW for the DX6i transmitter and 6 channel receiver.

IMHO, this setup offers operational advantages, compared to others I have seen because flaps and up-ailerons are independently deployable, each with its own switch. No side effects, such as one switch changing the behavior of another, etc.
1) Up-ailerons can be deployed alone for safely exiting strong thermals without flaps. (Strong thermals and high speeds could damage flaps.)
2) Flaps can be used alone on landings at the slowest forward speed.
3) Deploying both could help with steep landing approaches (e.g., over trees) into a short field.
4) Both up-ailerons and flaps have their own elevator offsets. These are combined in DX6i when both are enabled concurrently.

Setup:
1) Right aileron servo plugged into AILE connector on Rx. Left aileron plugged into AUX1. Flap servos on Y cable, plugged into to GEAR channel on Rx.

2) Enable Dual aileron channels: SETUP/WINGTAILMIX = ACT

3) All six control servos are setup as REVERSED (Note: Left aileron is labeled "FLAP" in DX6i menu)

4) Setting up CROW on DX6i The Tx switch labled "FLAPS" deploys up-ailerons.

ADJUST LIST / FLAPS
----------- FLAP --------- ELEV
NORM: _____0, ______ 0
LAND: +60 (sets 11mm up aileron), -5 (sets 1mm down elevator offset)

Note: You can camber the ailerons instead of "crowing" them by setting "LAND" parameters to -40 and +5 (above).

5) Setting up FLAPS on DX6i The Tx switch labeled "GEAR" deploys flaps.

ADJUST LIST / MIX1: GEAR--> ELEV ACT
D +125% (sets ?), U +20% (sets 3mm down elevator throw to compensate for lift caused by deploying flaps) SW=GEAR, TRIM=INH


EDIT: My PRO has arrived. I have verified the FLAP and MIX1 parameters work OK on the Radian PRO.

Appendix: DX6i Bizarre Nomenclature
The following is not for the faint of heart but may help explain how the above parameters accomplish their task.
1) "flaps" are the 2 physical control surfaces that implement the flap function.
2) "GEAR" is the label on the AR600 receiver output connectors for flaps servos.
3) "FLAP" is the label on the Tx switch that deploys the ailerons to their crow positions.
4) "FLAPS" is the label on the DX6i Adjust List menu (for up-ailerons)
5) "FLAP" is the label in the above menu where you set the value of the aileron offset when crow is enabled (by the "FLAP" switch on the DX6i).
6) "FLAP" is the label on the DX6i REVERSE menu for the "AUX1" labeled connector on the Rx. where you connect your left wing servo! This is where you can reverse your left aileron.

Now for flaps setup:
7) Oh, they are controlled by MIX1, which is activated by the GEAR switch but only affects the elevator offset, which compensates for the extra lift that happens when flaps are deployed. Flap throw is controlled by the flap servo arms and horns.

That should clear everything up!
jchunter is offline Find More Posts by jchunter
Last edited by jchunter; Dec 30, 2010 at 11:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 05:51 PM
Registered User
olivers dad's Avatar
UK, Swindon, Swindon
Joined Sep 2007
106 Posts
A mate and I got one each last week as we where so pleased with the original Radians, climb rate is still good but its heavier than the original so its not as xtreme. In all i think its blumming great value for money.I have been experimenting with some camber changes on a futaba 9c which has made some great advantages thermaling. soon i will change the servo arm angles on the flaps and try full span ailerons on my futab 8fg. and throttle on a side slider

Lord Chasleton (uk)
olivers dad is offline Find More Posts by olivers dad
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 05:58 PM
Addicted to flight since 1944
rbrown3rd's Avatar
southern Florida
Joined Feb 2004
1,750 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchunter View Post
This video shows a better implementation for CROW for the DX6i transmitter and 6 channel receiver........
Nice. Thanks for sharing the video and your settings.
rbrown3rd is offline Find More Posts by rbrown3rd
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 06:03 PM
Registered User
Brisbane Australia
Joined Mar 2003
568 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostage-46 View Post
So it's wrong prop, wrong motor, both?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1135
Quote:
Originally Posted by rojos View Post
Guys,

I'll post my findings as I was a little disappointed with the Pro compared to my old standby Radian. I had around 13 amps out of the box on the Pro and a solid 17 amps on the Radian. I swapped props from the Pro to the stock Radian and bingo the amps dropped on the old one to 13. Looking at the two props it appeares the tips on the new Pro prop have less pitch. There may be a few "bad" motors but I suspect the prop is the issue. I'm sure Horizon will post more come Monday. YMMV

Steve Rojecki
Team Horizon

Also here is the motor comparison.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=580
Quote:
Ok, so how about a picture worth a thousand words...

In the picture below, you can see that my original Radian motor, Radian Pro's original and replacement motors with power input for each.

Original Radian motor, 16.4 amps WOT
The bad motor drew 12.5 amps WOT
The replacement motor draw is 15.5 amps WOT

Remember that Dave at HH stated the replacement motors are more efficient than the older Radian motors by about 1 amp. My measurement on the Eagle Tree agree with that finding.

- Tom
Attached Thumbnails

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=3652833

Name: Motors1.jpg Views: 155 Size: 70.7 KB Description: Radian, Radian Pro original and replacement motors and input power for each. Radian, Radian Pro original and replacement motors and input power for each. 70.7 KB Views: 155
Graeme Marion is offline Find More Posts by Graeme Marion
Last edited by Graeme Marion; Dec 13, 2010 at 06:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 06:29 PM
Registered User
DoomsDay's Avatar
Charlotte Douglas, NC
Joined Sep 2003
3,008 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme Marion View Post
Ok, I dont have either of the radians yet, but I would like to point out that so far, everyone who has had their motor replaced and have posted, have posted the amps are up where they should be. So I suspect its more like a few bad props but the motor is the bigger issue. Now, I do not know the person that posted about the props, but it would be much cheaper for HH to replace props than it would be for them to replace motors, its just that the data coming in doesn't seem to support that theory.
DoomsDay is offline Find More Posts by DoomsDay
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 06:57 PM
Registered User
ChuckTseeker's Avatar
Adelaide Plains Australia
Joined Dec 2007
3,328 Posts
the Watts were 137.81 (Blue Line) the Amps topped out at 11.62 (Green Line) and i just couldn't get it to gain height 132ft (Purple Line) battery was a 1300 tunigy nano tech fully charged and when i topped it up at home it took 157mAh

condition at the field were strong thermals passing through with very little wind in-between, launched into what wind i could detect and had the model coming back at me, power on to try and climb out and it just can't penetrate the breeze, find myself doing circles trying to get it to gain height, but the thermal just kept pushing the glider round, as it just didn't have the power to cut through

this is the first time i have had trouble getting height when there is a fair breeze and although at other times the slow/under powered motor has not bothered me, today it did

Matt are you going to tell our Australian Distributor that there is a problem as they will not act from talk on the net and need official word, i am now not happy with the way this glider's motor can't handle a little wind and would like a replacement motor myself

can you please inform myself and other Australians what to do about our "Not Advertised" motors PLEASE!

cheers chuck
ChuckTseeker is online now Find More Posts by ChuckTseeker
Last edited by ChuckTseeker; Dec 13, 2010 at 08:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 06:59 PM
Registered User
Boulder, CO USA
Joined Jul 2010
348 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvanscho View Post
Crow is ailerons up (not a lot), and flaps down very far (60 - 75 degrees). It's mainly the flaps that kill lift and help landing.

Camber is when you add in a small amount of down on BOTH flaps and ailerons. Usually one or two millimetres is all you need. What this does is make the wing airfoil more "cambered" and therefore hopefully more "lifty".

Reflex is the opposite of camber, where you move both sufaces a little bit UP. This is supposed to make the wing airfoil less "lifty", and hence the plane should theoretically be faster.
Thanks, a lot to learn for me.
xiaoyu80305 is offline Find More Posts by xiaoyu80305
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 07:07 PM
Just do it.
FlyFisch's Avatar
Stroudsburg, PA
Joined Nov 2009
670 Posts
Krazykayak have you flown with the wing mod yet?
FlyFisch is offline Find More Posts by FlyFisch
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 07:41 PM
Registered User
Brisbane Australia
Joined Mar 2003
568 Posts
Adding small amounts of camber or reflex result in immediate changes to the models flying speed.

I only move them the thickness of the trailing edge when thermaling.
Graeme Marion is offline Find More Posts by Graeme Marion
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 07:50 PM
R.I.P, Aardvark.
F-111 John's Avatar
Holt, MI
Joined Jan 2009
1,551 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTseeker View Post
can you please inform myself and other Australians what to do about our "DUD!" motors PLEASE!

cheers chuck
Chuck,

I sense your frustration with HH Australia, but I think calling these Pro motors "duds" is being unfair. All the signs point to they're simply being a lower KV motor and poorly matched to the Pro's stock prop.

Have you tried the 10x8 that others claim have waked up their Pros to Radian performance levels or better?
F-111 John is offline Find More Posts by F-111 John
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 07:57 PM
Registered User
Brisbane Australia
Joined Mar 2003
568 Posts
The funny thing is that the people who have received an exchange motor report a marked improvement in performance while still using the stock prop.

The problem is that it is only Americans getting this service.
Graeme Marion is offline Find More Posts by Graeme Marion
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 07:59 PM
Dixie Normious
Eastcoast78's Avatar
Can A da....Ehh!!
Joined May 2010
5,019 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomsDay View Post
Now, I do not know the person that posted about the props, but it would be much cheaper for HH to replace props than it would be for them to replace motors, its just that the data coming in doesn't seem to support that theory.
yea all he did was he swapped props from the Pro to the stock Radian and bingo the amps dropped on the old one to 13Amps.He never said he swithced stock radain prop too his Pro???
So Chuck or anyone who has Both Radians...take the Prop off the Radain (or a replacement stock Prop) and throw it on Pro.. And see what you get in amps? or Differnace in Proformance...If by doing that and you get your 18ish Amps ,you know its the Prop.
Did the org motor have faults in cracking or anything (which im sure i read somewhere)?
I got a feeling they changed the houseing too fix that Prob.And they screwed up on the Prop. When he said in the Demo video,he should of stated "Yes it the same motor, Its jsut we put a new houing on it too make it more crack resistanted.
Only one way too find out.
He did say he "Switched Props" (Plural) Meaning he put the stock Prop form his Radain on the Pro.Its jsut he never worded it correctly to be more informative.
And also isnt the Spar suppoesed to be CF tube///
What it ever im hopeing too have mine tomorrow or in a few days....and ill deal with it when i get it...
Eastcoast78 is offline Find More Posts by Eastcoast78
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: TF to DOSD wiring.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 08:14 PM
Lakeville Minnesota
SailingAlong's Avatar
Lakeville MN
Joined Oct 2008
514 Posts
There is a post towards the end of the other PRO forum where they or have discovered that the stock prop isn't quite on the mark. Putting the original prop from the Radian on it seems to have indicated that it is the prop that may be the culprit rather then the motor. It is why a number of flyers' are getting good climb rates. The stock prop is 9.75 x 7.75 and that is what is on the PRO according to the stamped markings on the prop. Not that the motor is part of the equation but it sure makes a noticeable difference with the 10 x 8 prop.

I think it has something to do with the ends of the prop? I will look up this on the other thread but I believe it has already been posted here a number of messages back. I am certainly not going to get bent out of shape when the solution is easy and fairly inexpensive.

Steve
SailingAlong is offline Find More Posts by SailingAlong
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2010, 08:30 PM
Registered User
ChuckTseeker's Avatar
Adelaide Plains Australia
Joined Dec 2007
3,328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-111 John View Post
Chuck,

I sense your frustration with HH Australia, but I think calling these Pro motors "DUD's" is being unfair. All the signs point to they're simply being a lower KV motor and poorly matched to the Pro's stock prop.

Have you tried the 10x8 that others claim have waked up their Pros to Radian performance levels or better?
good pick up i have changed my post as i am really happy with my Radian Pro, just a little upset the motor is not the one advertised, well in my purchased glider anyway

as said in posts before i have had some great flights with the pro, it's just "When!" you need that extra throttle there's none there

cheers chuck
ChuckTseeker is online now Find More Posts by ChuckTseeker
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rave New Parkzone Radian Pro-discussion thread!!! lightspeeddud Electric Sailplanes 3675 Feb 19, 2014 02:58 AM
Discussion Official Radian Pro Thread Magnumb Parkflyers 14 Apr 10, 2011 10:56 PM
Gallery Parkzone Radian Pro Video bakon Electric Sailplanes 6 Mar 11, 2011 05:21 PM
New Product Parkzone Radian Pro bakon Electric Plane Talk 24 Oct 01, 2010 01:39 AM
Discussion Parkzone Radian Pro $229.99 BnF preorder Tekwip Hot Online Deals 10 Sep 29, 2010 04:35 PM