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Old Dec 18, 2010, 05:12 PM
UAS Pilot/Tech Instructor
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2000
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Here's a good link to a do it yourself ignition circuit; http://www.modelflight.com/ignition.html

I've built several of these and its super easy. I've found the parts at Radio Shack but any of the electronics houses will have them like Mouser or Digi-key. You don't even need a circuit board. Just solder the components/wire leads directly to the Transistor leads and use heat shrink. The kill switch can be a small micro switch "Goop"ed (Goop glue, sticks anything to anything) directly to a servo.

These transistor circuits really save the points which on some engines, like my Ardens, can be really hard to find.

Mike
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 02:58 PM
Deal Honestly or Don't Deal
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Originally Posted by Leadchucker View Post
If you need any help getting the ignition engines flying just shout. I am no expert but have been running them for around 40 years if that counts.
I do have the skinny on a slick ignition system setup that weighs in with coil, solid state module and batteries at 3.8 oz and has zero as in none,zip,nada,zilch radio interference.

All the above can be yours for the low low price of $9.99 if you act now. But wait!! There's more, call in the next five minutes and get a free set of kitchen knives......errrrrr......guess...after the onion thing y'all don't be wanting any knives...huh??
Would be very interested in your ign system as I have an old O&R 60 I want to restore.

sarg96
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 11:20 AM
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[QUOTE=Teals1;16854215]
1. Here is NZ we have two different petrol grades. High octane with I understand is around 98 and a low octane of around 92. Are spark ignition engines like lawn mowers that prefer the higher octane? The fuel tank will almost certainly be the original that came with the engine when new. May have to think about a replacement tank to run the methanol mix, we'll see.


The spark ignition model engines like to run on very low octane gas. Lots of folks in the US use "Coleman Fuel", which a commercial brand of camp stove fuel. Probably not over 60 octane. I'm told it's mostly naptha. The reason people use camp stove fuel is that auto fuel often contains additives (alcohol, toluol, etc.) which are harmful to the plastic fuel tank and are of questionable value to the engine itself.

Some folks in the US use 100LL airport gasoline also. Not for the higher octane or the lead content, but because it has none of the previously mentioned additives.

Dick
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 03:06 PM
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You definitely want the lower of the two octanes you have available to you. These small engines get ZERO benefit from high octane fuel. Its well documented if you search the topic.

Personally, I have not had any problems running pump gas, regular unleaded, here in the US. But I wouldn't leave raw fuel sitting in the tank for any length of time as there is a small amount of Ethanol alcohol in most US gas. As soon as the plane lands I drain or suck-out anything not used until ready for the next run. Any small amount of gas left in the tank usually evaporates.

I've used Coleman fuel in the past but will not do it anymore. It really does run too hot. You have to run very rich. On these old engines, some of them really are not very tolerant. Engines like the Ohlssons that have a pressed in Cylinder/crankcase fit, I've had one blow the gasket and leak like crazy after running Coleman. Replacing the gasket is not easy and can't be done properly without very special tools. I only knew of one guy that was still able to do it and its been a while since I've talked to him and he wasn't exactly a young guy then. His name is George Talent in Arizona.

If you can find a metal tank, and you can use a control line or R/C tank, then methanol/castor works really well. It runs very cool and is easy on the engines. Unless its a very robust engine, like a McCoy or Edco or Spitfire I would not use any nitro. Be advised though, that most needle valves are not set-up to properly run Alcohol. Alcohol requires almost twice the amount fuel than gas for same length of run time. That means you need to be able to flow alot more fuel through the needle. On most of these old timers, by the time you back the needle out enough it does not have enough threads to stay in. Also, sometimes the thread count is too course making needling difficult. One click ends up being too much or too little. This all means that you will need to modify the spraybar (by drilling to a larger size hole), needle taper (reshaping it to a shallower, longer profile) or both. In some cases, even use a different needle altogether like fitting an OS or Super Tigre control line spraybar/needle valve assembly. In general, I do not like to modify original parts so I either find a reproduction part if readily available, or fit something else.

A guy by the name pf Vic Didelot used to make wonderful replacement needles, spraybars, and metal tanks for the O&Rs but unfortunately he passed away several years ago. You might ask around if anybody took over his operation.

Mike
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 08:00 PM
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New Zealand, Auckland, Papakura
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Ohlsson

Thanks Mike and Dick for your helpful comments. Will be picking the engine/model up tomorrow but will be traveling on south so won't get a change to run the engine or spend time on it until the end of Feb. Like the sound of running it on the methanol/castor mix especially as it allows the engine to run cooler. Mixing our own fuel means I have the ingredients on hand too.
The fuel tank will be the original that came with the engine which will most likely be Ok for the methanol/castor mix but I also like the idea of a metal tank if I can get one. We'll see.
Anyway, thanks guys and have a great Christmas. Allen
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Teals1 View Post
Thanks Mike and Dick for your helpful comments. Will be picking the engine/model up tomorrow but will be traveling on south so won't get a change to run the engine or spend time on it until the end of Feb. Like the sound of running it on the methanol/castor mix especially as it allows the engine to run cooler. Mixing our own fuel means I have the ingredients on hand too.
The fuel tank will be the original that came with the engine which will most likely be Ok for the methanol/castor mix but I also like the idea of a metal tank if I can get one. We'll see.
Anyway, thanks guys and have a great Christmas. Allen
NNNNooooooooo....... If it has the original plastic tank DO NOT use it with straight methanol/castor. It will last about 10 sec before it turns into a shriveled mess. Lots of kids found that out in the 40's, 50's. This is one of the reasons everybody recommends using a metal tank. The stock plastic will just NOT hold up to alcohol. The very small amount of Ethanol in petrol gas is not to bad if not left sitting in the tank but pure alcohol is a definite NO-NO!

If you can find room in the plane, remove the stock tank and cover plate and just use a small control-line or R/C tank. You can then just hook the tank output line to the end of the spraybar. Store the stock tank parts in a safe place in case you want to display the engine.

Mike
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 09:51 PM
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One thing I do when running methanol castor in my spark control line engines is wedge a piece of bass wood in the ventura behind the spary bar. That gives the engine way more suction for aerobatics, and lets you turn in the needle a bit farther. Some engines, like Anderson Spitfires, just have to large of a ventura to work well with methonal castor, without plugging about a third of the ventura off. They still develop plenty of power and you don't have to drill out the spray bar to get good needle settings. I also find I have much broader needle settings using methanol castor. Seems to work well for me anyway, and is a trick I learned from some of the guys that flew a lot back in the day. I also do this on the engines on my old timer radio planes when running methonal castor.
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 10:08 PM
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New Zealand, Auckland, Papakura
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Fuel

Oh yes. A re-read clarifies things. Read it in a hurry as we are packing to go away but would have gone through it all again at leisure when I had time and before I do anything with the engine. Do appreciate you following up on this though. Will probably go for a separate tank, at least initially so that I can run the methanol/castor mix.
Will be attending our Model Aircraft Nationals (vintage events) so will also run things past some of these guys as I believe some do run old spark engines. That way I can see what Kiwis do with local fuels available.
Kind regards, Allen
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by sarg96 View Post
Would be very interested in your ign system as I have an old O&R 60 I want to restore.
Sarg,
The ignition system I use consist of a solid state module, a coil and a battery pack as seen in the photos. Batteries are 3 2500 maH Nimh's giving nominal voltage of 3.6 volts. The module is Marv Stern's Aerotech Mk 3 Igniton Unit and the coil and high tension leads come from Larry Davidson @ Modelflight. The stuff isn't cheap coming to about $90.00 for one entire setup but it all works great. The module elimitnates an additional servo and a switch for engine control as it plugs into your RX throttle port. You want the high tension leads with the 10 K resistor from larry if you're running your engine in an RC plane. Photos show relative size to a common lighter,weight of entire setup is 3.8 oz.

Warren


Links for components:
Ignition module :http://www.antiquemodeler.org/sam_ne...mark%20III.pdf

Coils and high tension leads:http://www.modelflight.com/larrydavidson.html
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 09:11 PM
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Canada, ON, Caledonia
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1945 Rocket Victor 454

Another little treasure I picked up today from Ebay, very complete and almost no run time on it.
Need to do a little research to determine the actual size....unless one of you fellers know.

Bill
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Old Dec 22, 2010, 09:39 AM
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Bill,
Your Rocket is a .45 c.i. (7.3 cc). It was made by May Motors. The engines they produced were:

'40 "Silver King" .454 ign. - 1st "Rocket", venturi inside tank

'41 "Rocket" .454 ign. - plastic tank on top of venturi tube

'45 "Rocket, Victor Model" .454 ign. - plastic tank under venturi


Warren
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Old Dec 22, 2010, 11:34 AM
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Hey Bill,

You weren't the one that won that '37 Synchro Ace .56 on Ebay this Monday were 'ya?

I tried to bid but was thoroughly stomped. Sure would'a looked good in my display cabinet or on a plane.

Mike
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Old Dec 22, 2010, 03:03 PM
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No, wasn't me Mike......I never win a damn thing

Thanks very much for the info Warren, always appreciated

Bill
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 06:44 PM
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New Zealand, Auckland, Papakura
Joined Nov 2006
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Sparker

Hi Guys, Well I have now collected the models and consequently determined that the engine is an Ohlsson 23, the engines size clearly visible on the front of the crankcase. Engine turned over very freely (unlike the two Cox engines which were gummed up) and it has good compression. Wiring didn't look too bad either so will be interesting to get it running again after all these years sitting idle.
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 09:12 PM
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The middle of Kansas
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You will love the little 23 Allen. There were a great many sold for a reason. They were great little engines that started and ran well. Looks like you have a good one. I really enjoy just owning these old sparkers as a piece of modeling history.
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