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Old Feb 05, 2012, 08:20 AM
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Woodstock 1's Avatar
Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
Joined Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLT_GTI View Post
The problem with foamies for what i saw is that they dont age well..

I have a CloudsFly wich is near 2 year old.. it flies nicely and it has some crashes (tought none as hard as many i have seen in others with splited noses and smashes) and its fuselage looks like 1000 years old , but even parts thathave never been touched look aged..like fuselage rear sides and wings..even stabilizators..
Indeed. My biggest beef with foamies is that they are difficult to transport (if you are carrying more than one plane) without being damaged. More than one is squeak city on the back of the car ...
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Old Feb 05, 2012, 08:22 AM
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Woodstock 1's Avatar
Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
Joined Dec 2005
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I suppose I'm being silly really, if one made up decent bags or covers like we do for other types of planes, foamies would be fine. It's just that we tend to think that, being foamies, we can just chuck them in the car and forget...
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Old Feb 05, 2012, 01:02 PM
Addicted to lift
eosglider's Avatar
United States, FL, Miami
Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvanscho View Post
I suppose I'm being silly really, if one made up decent bags or covers like we do for other types of planes, foamies would be fine. It's just that we tend to think that, being foamies, we can just chuck them in the car and forget...
No need to make up bags for the P2K wings. It sorta comes with them. Just use the bubble packing bags they come in to transport them to the field, which what I do. Works really nicely.
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 12:13 AM
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Vancouver
Joined Sep 2003
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See the wingbags on my P2K wing on the top shelf above my work bench. I can fit the assembled wing into my station wagon so they are stored in the bags ready to transport.
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 03:32 AM
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Redwood City, CA USA
Joined Mar 2002
495 Posts
Hi everyone, thanks for all of the helpful info in this thread. I've enjoyed reading it and so far have been really happy with the P2K. Went to pull the trigger a couple weeks ago however it was out of stock at HK USA warehouse so I ended up ordering it from Economy RC:
http://store.economyrc.com/phoenix20...cairplane.html

The above product page does not mention any servos being included however since the HK website mentions 4 servos are included I ordered it. They shipped quickly and when the P2K arrived to my surprise it included 6 servos. The flap servos were already installed and wired, and all wing control surfaces were cut out and hinged! IIRC someone posted that their P2K had arrived with 6 servos as well, I dunno if that's normal or what but do feel lucky regardless since was under impression that HK and EconRC RTF kits shared the same BOM.

Anyways been using 1300mAh packs velcro'd pretty far back on the battery tray and glider works well for me (at 75-80mm CG). Thermals great already as-is; if wing had just a few degs of dihedral it would need a bit less control work to stay in thermals, oh well I can live with that.

Stock prop/motor/esc with 40C 1300mAh 3S pack draws 19 amps. Also tested with 13x8 Aeronaut folding prop had on hand and it draws 35 amps. With stock prop, the motor is barely warm after 15-min flight where there is light thermal conditions and motor gets used more often to climb up (like say 1 to 2 minute thermal soaring windows between having to power up). I have 2 throttle positions on/off via spring-loaded switch on TX.

Had a few flights with 13x8 folder before switching back to the stock prop: The 13x8 provided higher climb angle over stock prop but not vertical. Plenty of batt reserve after 15-min flights in light thermal conditions, however motor was warm to touch after landing (~90 degs, okay now in winter but not sure on hot day in summer). Of course when there are strong thermal conditions and it does not become necessary to power up to climb as often (like say 3 to 7 minute thermal soarings windows between having to power up), then motor will be barely warm with 13x8, and cold with stock prop.

The only issue I had was that a few times the stock folding prop blade was caught up on the front left portion of the canopy. IIRC someone posted about that happening to them and they used a piece of tape to ensure the prop blade has no chance of catching the canopy lip. Did the same before each flight since and it has worked well.

Have not change the stock clevises yet they have been adequate for my thermal soaring activities, however would upgrade them if were planning for any type of speed dives ending with aggressive maneuvers or aerobatics. So for what it is to me at least the P2K is a good electric 2M thermal soaring glider and amazing value for the price.
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 05:31 PM
windyhill
United States, OR, Ione
Joined Jan 2009
94 Posts
Hey Starhopper,how is your tg380 working? and where is it listed on hk website
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 06:58 PM
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by windyhill View Post
Hey Starhopper,how is your tg380 working? and where is it listed on hk website
Ummmm.....I don't think that was me.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 05:38 PM
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Ummmm.....I don't think that was me.
Had a li'l more time & revisited this....and I think you're talking about the Turnigy TG-380 gyro? Sorry, can't tell you where it is on HK....or anywhere else for that matter! I remember now, having it suggested to me & spending a good bit of time trying to find them myself, to no avail. Funny thing is, you can find loads of references to them all over the place, but for the life of me I never could find 'em for sale, not only at HK but no place else either! I recall it was downright exasperating! *LOL*

(Now watch somebody come along & give a dozen links to 'em.)

FWIW, I wound up going with a couple different Detrum models: the GY192 & GY48V. Saw the 192 recommended over the TG380, & while checking it out, saw the 48V recommended as a more versatile, & 'heavier duty' unit that happened to be selling at near the 192's cheaper price, so picked up a couple of each to try. Haven't installed either as yet, tho....have backed off aerial video for awhile so there's no urgency, plus I have a good bit more of 'before' testing to run with my EagleTree system before I get to 'gyros added' stage.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 06:49 PM
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H2SO4's Avatar
Australia, New South Wales, Sydney
Joined Jan 2011
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Looks like HK have stopped selling the TG-380. They certainly used to, at one time, as I bought one from them. It's not a good performer - very twitchy and noisy, plus it exhibits significant thermal drift.

Its disappearance is no great loss IMHO.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 07:26 PM
CURIOSITY Has Landed!
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Sydney, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
1,178 Posts
Your both right the TG-380 hes certainly vanished from HK listings.
I even went though the list of packages I've had sent and found the one with the TG-380's in it and the link now just goes to gyros in general.

I've put this gyro in the Phoenix 2000 and little Mini Swift 500 on Aileron and never really found anything that excited me about having the gyro on the planes.
It's the first time used a gyro on a plane and had both the setting on the gyro itself and in the radio set to 50%.

All that happened was that felt slightly more stable in gusty wind, but I can handle that myself.
Don't if I should blame the gyro, my settings or how it's suppose to feel when activated.
I might try it with different settings, but at this stage, I don't really think a gyro is needed, AT ALL.
That said, I'm still going have a play around with gyros some more, if not just to spite my flying 'buddy', who keeps complaining about me trying out gyros on planes.

-B!
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 11:13 AM
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Well, my interest in gyros runs/ran as follows:
First, you guys from the SkySurfer/Bixler thread (& most likely, others of that genre) I know have seen a thousand videos showing the rotational heaving (enough to induce seasickness if not outright epileptic seizures ) these lightweight-big wing aircraft are susceptible to in winds. My primary interest was to smooth this out somewhat to benefit my cheap-o keyfob cam videos...gyros seemed like a logical aid if not solution.

Second - being a relatively inexperienced glider pilot I also imagined that when the day came I would actually have one -- it was only in the 'future plans' stage at the moment of ordering...of course now I have the P2K I narrowed my final choices down to -- but, knowing 'smooth handling' is a high component of glider-flying efficiency, I went ahead & ordered an extra set to ride along for the same freight cost, for future use in that glider. However, as noted I am not to the stage yet where I'm ready to add gyro(s) to the mix.

It should be known, or at least said, I am a great experimenter-tinkerer. Not 'Great' as some Einstein, like....but 'great' as, it's something I do, a lot. A huge part of the fun I derive from this hobby (& others) is in messing around with something to see if I can make it better. I painstakingly take notes for comparison & reference, as I progress....and am a great believer in planned steps or stages; formulating concepts, testing & backing up results.....all that kinda stuff. *LOL* Not as apology but, that's just the way I've always been, & more by way of explaining my sometimes obtuse looks at or queries about 'things'.

See - I'm still at the point of 'learning' glider flying - the finer points. I believe you've gotta have some basics to compare against, before you can suitably make judgments about whether a new part actually provides an improvement. I've never been a part of that school which says - as we too often see - "It MUST be good/better/best, because I HAVE it!!"
Nome seine?
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 11:27 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugitive_Bill View Post
...I might try it with different settings, but at this stage, I don't really think a gyro is needed, AT ALL. ...-B!

Bill....based off what I just wrote above - you're exactly right....to a degree.

'Needed' as, an absolute must? No. No way!
'Needed' as, a tool....that can help overcome certain problematic phenomena that are beyond our skills? Absolutely! IF you place any seriousiousness on the need for solving or remedying that problem.

Example - I was sitting here watching a video of a guy flying a helicopter with the 'cheap' gyro, as a response to several who have complained about its efficacy. It was to say the least, insane! About the ability to control all this thru flawless timing of my thumbwork, the thought ran thru my mind, "How dare I ever think I could react with accurate control input faster than the speed of light?!?" Those things sense something's off & corrects it, before we would even know something's amiss that needs adjusting!

That's about what it amounts to....at least for me. Tools.
Then add the fun of a new part for your toyz to try out, & dinker around with!
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 04:31 PM
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To my way of thinking, the benefits of a gyro are always going to be marginal on a plane like the P2K, what with its relatively large size and smallish control surfaces. It doesn't tend to get knocked about by the wind all that much, and corrective input from a gyro won't be keenly felt through its lethargic roll or pitch rate.

On my Minimag a gyro makes a significant difference, and on windier days I have no trouble remembering to flick the gyro's ON switch, because the plane is markedly smoother with than without.

The other thing I'd suggest is putting the gyro on the elevator, not the ailerons. Roll stability may seem intuitively more user-friendly, but rapid changes in altitude are ultimately more dangerous, and an elevator gyro can really help to smooth out landings, especially on windy days.

Another benefit on stabilizing the elevator instead of ailerons is that you're not forced to use a Y-lead so that a single gyro can act on both ailerons, thus losing the ability to configure aileron differential, crow, reflex...
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 04:39 PM
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Oviedo
Joined Jun 2010
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Also i think this kind of planes in windy conditions (at least in slopes) benefict more of ballast than giros.. ballast will make them more stable and penetrate the wind better.. it will also make it sink faster and be faster.. but in such windy conditions is no place to play "floaty"
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 08:37 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
To my way of thinking, the benefits of a gyro are always going to be marginal on a plane like the P2K, what with its relatively large size and smallish control surfaces. It doesn't tend to get knocked about by the wind all that much, and corrective input from a gyro won't be keenly felt through its lethargic roll or pitch rate.

On my Minimag a gyro makes a significant difference, and on windier days I have no trouble remembering to flick the gyro's ON switch, because the plane is markedly smoother with than without.

The other thing I'd suggest is putting the gyro on the elevator, not the ailerons. Roll stability may seem intuitively more user-friendly, but rapid changes in altitude are ultimately more dangerous, and an elevator gyro can really help to smooth out landings, especially on windy days.

Another benefit on stabilizing the elevator instead of ailerons is that you're not forced to use a Y-lead so that a single gyro can act on both ailerons, thus losing the ability to configure aileron differential, crow, reflex...

Interesting.

Re "It doesn't tend to get knocked about by the wind all that much, ..."
I suppose it's a subjective matter, but I wonder why (in the manual) it advises not to fly in "strong" winds (but doesn't define 'strong'), however later (last page) it advises best flying is at 0-2m/s, which is only ~4.5 mph - a fairly light breeze - and seemingly indicating anything over ~5mph as 'not best'.

"won't be keenly felt through its lethargic roll or pitch rate"
I understand that reaction from gyro input won't be as pronounced, and why - there's considerably more mass involved than in say, a much smaller foamy - but what I'd look for as the main benefit a gyro would provide would be its 'instantness' in corrective input, as it's easier to correct 'bad' influences before they've moved very far along....meaning it's easier to correct a wing that's just started to roll, than a wing that's far out of control. This would logically work in concert with the higher mass, eg our large-winged glider, as a given wind of say, a 10-mph gust, would knock a small lightweight foamy 'off course' much quicker, and farther, than that same 10-mph gust would knock our P2K off course. You wouldn't see as much reaction from the gyros in the larger plane, but there's just as much - maybe more - input control being exerted. By the same token, a larger bird as out of control as 'that' smaller foamy, would no doubt take much longer to correct - along with much more energy to do so.

The main thing I see the gyro providing is its ability to, in the immortal words of Barney Fife, "Nip it in the bud!"

Just for the conversation.....
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