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Old Dec 08, 2011, 02:53 AM
Not a newbie anymore..
skyhawk newbie's Avatar
Ireland, Cork
Joined Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by Fugitive_Bill View Post
!
Yeah I agree with you BarnOwl. SkyHawk,why did ya sell ya Phoenix 2000? - That's blasphemy!! It's a nice little plane and I'll be keeping mine in my fleet unless it fly's off into the blue yonder (from me being crazzzzy trying break altitude records and lose sight of it - don't ask how I... - Ok, it's happened before!) or I write it off! (that's happen before too!

Mike, With the wing mounting bolts like many others I replaced the stock Philips head bolts with 3mm x 30mm and 3mm x 20mm Hex/Allen head bolts (mentioned with pictures a few pages/weeks back).
-B!
Don't get me wrong , I loved flying my Pheonix..
The only thing ,that let it down for me was the wing... Once that went into my car there was not alot of room for my other gliders...
I allways like to bring a few models with me when flying,not just one..

.
Think my next car will have the be a hatch back...
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 01:07 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
3,882 Posts
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Originally Posted by skyhawk newbie View Post
Think my next car will have the be a hatch back...
You need something the size of a Mazda 6 then as the Phoenix 2000 will fit in without removing the wing. Ideal if it starts pi**ing it down and you need to pack up in a hurry.
I think the most planes I've taken to the patch number 9 which is a tight squeeze if my brother brings 3 or 4 of his own. I have some nylon anti-pest netting (pigeon/seagul) and string it across from the front head restraints to the parcel shelf. The smaller/lighter models ride on this netting. I would need a panel van if I took all 22 of my models with me
Andy
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 01:50 AM
Heli's and gliders, what else?
BarnOwl's Avatar
Nederland, GE, Slijk-Ewijk
Joined Apr 2006
743 Posts
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Originally Posted by skyhawk newbie View Post
Don't get me wrong , I loved flying my Pheonix..
The only thing ,that let it down for me was the wing... Once that went into my car there was not alot of room for my other gliders...
I allways like to bring a few models with me when flying,not just one..

.
Think my next car will have the be a hatch back...
You'll have a lot of fun with the Cularis then..........
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 03:53 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Got mine thru USA outlet also Bamoore....took 9 days to East Coast. Of course the price is a mite higher but, you save WELL over ordering from China in freight costs! I wish there was a way to browse ONLY HK's USA Whse items, completely without all the other inventory. Would make my shopping much more convenient as, USA will definitely be my 1st choice for future orders!

Also wish they'd carry more inventory! I really don't think they'd have a hard time selling anything from there. It would be interesting to know what percentage of HK's total sales comes from each location.
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 05:54 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
,,, I wish there was a way to browse ONLY HK's USA Whse items, completely without all the other inventory. ...
I think I might have accidentally discovered a way to do just that!

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...obby_Warehouse

Don't know how well it'll hold if you venture off to search or use menu links in left margin, but there's 23 pages of stuff there!

Gosh....all those planes! And so little time. ............
(Not to mention the little LITTLE money!) *LOL*
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 07:50 AM
Not a newbie anymore..
skyhawk newbie's Avatar
Ireland, Cork
Joined Oct 2010
2,025 Posts
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Originally Posted by BarnOwl View Post
You'll have a lot of fun with the Cularis then..........
Love it Snap fit 2.6m wing
Very nice carry bag for it aswell...


.
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 01:49 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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AUWs??

I'd gotten a little curious about how my build stacked up against the P2K's advertised flying weight of 980 grams, so broke out my scales & went to work. Came up with some interesting numbers.
437g.....Wings (Ailerons-only [2 servos])
465g.....Fuse (w/o LiPo)
27g.....Prop Assy (Stock 10x6)
35g.....Canopy
964g....TOTAL DRY WEIGHT
OK - that's 16g under - and I didn't apply the decals in my build. BUT - 'Flying Weight' (AUW) includes LiPos, which we haven't added yet.

Here's the weights of a few sizes/makes, & end effects of adding them:
Pack mAh....Wgt....AUW.....Penalty
TNT 1300....111g.....1075g.....+95g
GA 1300.....124g.....1088g....+108g

TNT 1800....147g.....1111g.....+131g
Tgy 1800....157g.....1121g.....+141g

TNT 2200....184g.....1148g....+168g
GA 2200.....194g.....1158g....+178g
[TNT = Turnigy NanoTech / GA = GensAce / Tgy = Turnigy Flight]

I cut every corner I could - didn't even apply the decals. The only extra weight I added to the airframe was an insulator made of 1.5mm breadboard behind the metal motor spacer - it weighs 2.7g
Makes me think the advertised 980g AUW is kind of suspect....or am I missing something?

How do you guys' weigh in?
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 12:10 AM
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Joined Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
How do you guys' weigh in?
Mine is unfinished, so final weight is unknown. I did weigh the major components before I started, and came up with 3 lbs (1360.8g) total. The final weight will be that plus fiber tape, paint, control horns, etc. I'm sure mine will be heavier than most as I'm not building a "glider", more of a powered plane that glides well and can use the whole sky. I started with a glider because I'm also looking for smooth and graceful flight as I enjoy recording aerial video but dislike "twitchy" videos.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 08:59 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by invenext View Post
...as I'm not building a "glider", more of a powered plane that glides well and can use the whole sky. I started with a glider because I'm also looking for smooth and graceful flight as I enjoy recording aerial video but dislike "twitchy" videos.
Grab some coffee or sump'n, guys.....this is gonna be a long'n!

I got in a couple of flights yesterday in windy conditions (12-15 gusting to 20 on pre-flite anemometer readings) before a gust caught a wing resulting in a minor cartwheel on landing, which pushed the motor slightly offline (the firewall 'caved' ~1/4" on one side; easily fixable) and post-flight inspection showed one wing's rear holding screw tore thru the flimsy surrounding foam (see pic).

This was also the first sessions with the 'full house' EagleTree flight data recorder aboard, recording Altitude, RPMs, Temperatures for LiPo, ESC and Motor; Pack Voltage, Motor Amps, Watts & cumulative mAh consumption. And, the altimeter readings over the also-tracked time scale (taking configurable 4 samples per second) enables climb (and sink) rates. For those curious, eg, climb from first launch went from 6' to 443' in 51.5 seconds, for a 509.13 ft/min climb rate with the stock motor & prop, on a 1300mAh 25~50C LiPo.

==Pg 2==
I'd mentioned previously I couldn't achieve CoG on the marked location with either a 2200 or 1800mAh LiPo, no matter where positioned on the battery tray. As someone suggested, yesterday's sessions used a couple different (Gens Ace 1st session; NanoTech 2nd) 1300mAh's....still no joy. Placing less weight in the nose with these smaller packs seemed like a good solution -- alas, the craft is still slightly nose-heavy even with the 1300's slid as far rearward as they'll go - just barely held by the onboard Velcro restraint.

I'm very reluctant to add more dead weight, so I'm thinking I'll relocate the receiver on the front of the tray, & move the Velcro clamp back so I can place the LiPo's more judiciously to achieve CoG.

I will be adding weight, but not 'dead' - very active in fact. I too loathe 'jittery' photography, and I plan to install a wing-leveling rate gyro to help smooth things out....but want to learn more about the plane's 'naked' flight characteristics beforehand. My installation will be simple #11-808 KeyCams, so the smoother I can make her the more they'll benefit.

Back to the balance issue -- I'm wondering what the heck makes mine so nose-heavy?? I added only 1.5 grams of extraneous weight (breadboard insulator ahead of firewall)....whereas I see you guys reporting all kinds of buildup up there, & balancing out with 2200's! It just don't make sense!

It just occurred to me to check my 'dots' - heck, they might be placed wrong! Not likely, but I'm that desperate! *LOL*
Just did - nope - they're dead-on at 70mm.

My CoG was measuring in at ~43mm with the 2200 & 1800's - right on the front edge of the cross-wing plywood joiner strip. With the 1300's yesterday, it improved slightly to ~55mm, just ahead of the strip's holding screw.
The hell of it is, my Sensei & our club's flying instructor - who also owns a P2K - arrived late yesterday while I was flying my 2d session, & he later noted he saw it porpoising -- which is a sign of tail-heaviness! I thought it was the gusty wind, but I yield to his 45-years RC experience. Anyway, with that counsel.....if you thought I was confused before......!!!

==Pg 3==
Another, perhaps related (cause & effect-wise) issue:
What makes a plane porpoise when the physical measures show it's clearly nose-heavy according to both the prescribed/marked CoG point, & contrary to others' experience?

Coincidentally, it's been well noted here how "climby" the P2K is - with several admonishments to apply down elevator while climbing else she'll loop on ya....eg & especially at launch. I experienced that well, yesterday, in both sessions. It makes for a good clean launch, quickly getting the plane away from the ground, but as the prop starts really biting in & climbrate accelerates, I found myself having to hold some pretty severe down-elevator just to keep the climb straight. Likewise when I was re-climbing to altitude after glides. Several times, the plane was approaching stall, and I'd have to go max down-elevator to re-gain speed.

I have a suspicion that I just checked, and confirmed -- a possible design flaw. I'll ask rather than state, because I simply don't know the design characteristics for gliders per se....but I know it seems contrary to what one might think.

That being, the angle of incidence of the P2K's horizontal stab. I gotta get out of here so must end this, so can't take & post up pix right now but, I did a quick visual of my stab and it is decidedly raised in the rear! It's firmly mounted against the fuse, but the fuse itself heightens considerably at the back end (look at yours), thus 'wedging' the stab downwards. I'm wondering if -- perhaps the (my) foam's a bit too thick back there? ...or something??

It would certainly seem to contribute to the noted characteristic of the P2K for 'climbiness'.....my basic question is, are gliders just inherantly designed that way?

==Page Fini==
I'll try to get some system heat data from yesterday's sessions summarized & published for you guys later - for the curious & those who'll find value. Gotta run for now tho, but would deeply appreciate hearing some thoughts & discussion on the things brought up, above.

Clear skies! &
Outtahere!!
~S*H

**************
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 09:04 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Oh - one more quick note/question, afore I forget it....
Re mounting my gyro (it'll be a foam-block base upon which the gyro will be mounted) -- have we established a good-or-best adhesive for sticking things to this fuselage???
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 04:29 PM
Fighting Gravity
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Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Jan 2011
549 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post

I'm very reluctant to add more dead weight, so I'm thinking I'll relocate the receiver on the front of the tray, & move the Velcro clamp back so I can place the LiPo's more judiciously to achieve CoG.

**************
I moved my velcro strap back and with the 1300 mAHn battery hanging maybe 5mm over rear of battery tray have great balance.

Mine does carry slightly more weight at the nose with upgraded motor(20g) and heavier 40amp ESC.

I have set my TX up with two modes when flying. Motor and glide and flick switch for whatever "task" I am performing. I find performance amazing.

Flew three batteries(1300mAH) yesterday and really pushed the airframe and power train. Flew under power for 100% of the flight and mostly at WOT. Loops, long climb outs, screaming dives, rolls, inverted circuts etc. Upgraded Turnigy SK-3530 motor running 10x6 CAM prop came down just warm, with battery slightly hot.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 04:38 PM
Fighting Gravity
bonnie9496's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Oh - one more quick note/question, afore I forget it....
Re mounting my gyro (it'll be a foam-block base upon which the gyro will be mounted) -- have we established a good-or-best adhesive for sticking things to this fuselage???
I've used hot glue on the fuse to hold the horizontal stab and it is still stuck firmly.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 06:58 PM
windyhill
United States, AZ, Kingman
Joined Jan 2009
85 Posts
Leave it alone

Just put togather a phoenix 2000 / with flaps and it flew perfect as advertised. Is one of the best top two flying sailplanes of it's kind out there, so why in the world would you want to mess it up like everyone before this post. It was ment to be a sailplane and should be flew like one. I am 74 years old and started flying in the late 60s. This is a great soaring foamy (no not an olympic 2 ) but take it from me it thermals really well with flaps.

Windyhill Ron
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 08:38 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
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Uhh....who you talkin' to there, Ron? "Mess it up"?!?
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 08:43 PM
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Asheville,NC
Joined Jun 2002
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Mess

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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Uhh....who you talkin' to there, Ron? "Mess it up"?!?
Hey grass hopper whoops StarHopper - did you mess yours up ??


............te
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