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Old Nov 25, 2011, 08:19 AM
Not a newbie anymore..
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Ireland, Cork
Joined Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Got no response to the above ?'s but nevermind, as I came across a post by Jackerbes that, between it and other things I've learned have pretty much answered those questions for me. In fact, I can add a bit to one thing he said in: "If you have a folder on there now, the width of the blades where they fit into the yoke is the "shoulder" or "hub" width. Shoulders come in 3mm, 5mm, 6mm, and 8mm on Graupner blades. All Aeronaut folding prop blades have 8mm shoulders. And there are other blades and in various widths.
So, if what you have uses 8mm you can use Aeronaut blades. If you have another width you can look for a Graupner or another brand in the shoulder width that will let you use your existing yoke."

My addition being, I found one (at least) vendor who includes 1mm spacer washers with their hubs and informs it's so either 8mm or 6mm-shouldered props can be used in their 8mm hubs....so that's a 'trick' that can be kept in mind when it comes to finding available rigs - noting many vendors tend to be perenially out of stock on this stuff.

One question that remains for me - from my readings here I see the P2K uses a 40mm spinner. I've noted most domestic (USA) sellers cite 1.5" sizes. The 40mm translates to 1.575" and though the question almost answers itself I wanted to make double sure - is this 'close enough' to use?

And finally one note to add - this might be common knowledge but I'm up to page 11 (halfway thru) and haven't yet seen anything other'n one member who 'made his own'....but there's a spinner available that is 'open tipped' so cooling air can pass thru. Seeing as how motor heat is endemic to the P2K I'm going for one of those. If its availability is not common knowledge and anyone's likewise interested, I'll post the vendor info.

My P2K has arrived, and I'm like a kid in a candy store right now! Looking to have 'er up on Sunday at our club meet, & of course that means using the supplied bits (save for clevis changes I'll absolutely make) so.....everybody pray for me! *LOL* For Thanksgiving, I gave thanks there's no rain in the forecast but watch that change, or 50-knot winds to blow in Sunday morning. It ain't like Ma Nature to let a man enjoy his new toys w/o some sort of time in the penalty box! It just ain't natural!!

Oh and....THANX Jack for your informative post on the tractor info!

Hobbykins sell the spinner your after... Turbo spinner..
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Old Nov 25, 2011, 08:47 AM
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StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
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Originally Posted by bonnie9496 View Post
...This new setup(2 flights) gives similar power to stock but is MUCH smoother and is only running at about 220w so plenty of scope to increase prop/power(eg 10x8).
The motor comes in cool.
Hope this help you!
Very useful info, Bonnie -- I'm looking for a well-balanced (in terms of performance & durability) power train and it's nice to have that all together.
Thanks much for your input!
~S*H
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Old Nov 25, 2011, 08:53 AM
Heli's and gliders, what else?
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Nederland, GE, Slijk-Ewijk
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
BTW - what does the term 'CAM' refer to on the Graupner, et al, folding props?
Computer Aided Manufacturing
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Old Nov 25, 2011, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BarnOwl View Post
Computer Aided Manufacturing
You sure that applies here, or is that just a guess?
I know it's usually seen as 'CAD/CAM' (worked in the environs for many years) but even so, fail to see the specific connection with these props.

I've also seen 'Competition Altimeter for Models' as relates to ALES (Altitude Limited Electric Soaring) and while potentially related to CAM, it also doesn't satisfyingly bridge the gap. Gotta mean something else!!
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Old Nov 25, 2011, 12:19 PM
Heli's and gliders, what else?
BarnOwl's Avatar
Nederland, GE, Slijk-Ewijk
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
You sure that applies here, or is that just a guess?
I know it's usually seen as 'CAD/CAM' (worked in the environs for many years) but even so, fail to see the specific connection with these props.
No guess, it's a fact.
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Old Nov 25, 2011, 07:21 PM
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Originally Posted by BarnOwl View Post
No guess, it's a fact.
Well alrighty then!
Still don't see how it applies to a prop tho, unless maybe they made the mold(s) with CAD/CAM, or maybe CNC'g the spinners.

+++
BTW - re all the talk about the P2K's weaknesses & shortcomings, junk motors & ESC's, overheating, etc. Turns out my club's training officer has a P2K....brought it out to the field & I got to watch about 30 minutes of sheer fun! Pretty stiff winds, especially aloft....he launched & it climbed like a jet, followed by some pretty crazy aerobatics - rolls, wingovers, loops inside AND out - he really wrung it out for me. Needless to say he is very skilled - usually flies 3D & Pattern; been flyng RC for about 45 years, and has nothing but praise for the Phoenix.

And it's BOX STOCK!! Motor, prop, ESC, everything. Hasn't even changed the clevises!!
(Tho he agrees they're junk, & said if one breaks he plans to change both those and the tail pushrods.)

Even after watching many P2K's in videos, gotta say I was kinda surprised how fast it is! That thing got UP there, QUICK!
I guess it goes to show, you rarely hear from the folks who get 'good ones'....& more usually just those with complaints. *LOL*

I'll be starting my build early tomorrow, in hopes of flying at our Club Meet Sunday. I just hope it turns out near as well as his!

Clear Skies!
~S*H
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 02:25 AM
Fighting Gravity
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Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Jan 2011
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Another couple of flights today with the new upgraded motor:
TURNIGY AerodriveXp SK-3530-1100kv / 335W
Very impressed with how cool this motor comes in after some reasonably hard flying. The original motor would have melted the front of fuse! This one came down barely warm.
For those looking for an alternate motor DO consider this one!
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 03:23 AM
Heli's and gliders, what else?
BarnOwl's Avatar
Nederland, GE, Slijk-Ewijk
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Well alrighty then!
Still don't see how it applies to a prop tho, unless maybe they made the mold(s) with CAD/CAM, or maybe CNC'g the spinners.
That's exactly the case. Graupner uses CAM to make a "perfect" propellor, afterward they CNC the blades. I think they use it for the molds.
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Old Nov 27, 2011, 10:08 AM
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I'm in final steps of assembly in hopes of getting 'er maidened today & ran into a problem. Hope someone sees this quickly & can give me an answer:
What's best way to get a servo out of the wing???

I've got one that in neutral or mid-position (on servo tester) is about 2 notches off-center, & I need to move the arm to center in neutral so it'll match up with the other wing's. Can't get at it with the screwdriver until it's removed, ergo, I'm as stuck as it is!
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Old Nov 27, 2011, 10:19 AM
Heli's and gliders, what else?
BarnOwl's Avatar
Nederland, GE, Slijk-Ewijk
Joined Apr 2006
719 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
I'm in final steps of assembly in hopes of getting 'er maidened today & ran into a problem. Hope someone sees this quickly & can give me an answer:
What's best way to get a servo out of the wing???

I've got one that in neutral or mid-position (on servo tester) is about 2 notches off-center, & I need to move the arm to center in neutral so it'll match up with the other wing's. Can't get at it with the screwdriver until it's removed, ergo, I'm as stuck as it is!
Just cut it out carefully with an exacto knife!
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Old Nov 27, 2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
I'm in final steps of assembly in hopes of getting 'er maidened today & ran into a problem. Hope someone sees this quickly & can give me an answer:
What's best way to get a servo out of the wing???

I've got one that in neutral or mid-position (on servo tester) is about 2 notches off-center, & I need to move the arm to center in neutral so it'll match up with the other wing's. Can't get at it with the screwdriver until it's removed, ergo, I'm as stuck as it is!
On my wing I just cut little V notches out of the foam so I can get at the screws with a driver. A strip of tape afterwards restores the aerodynamics. I'm going to be fiddling with mine plenty as I want differential ailerons, but I don't have a computer radio so I have to do it with linkage bias.
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Old Nov 27, 2011, 06:06 PM
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servo removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
I'm in final steps of assembly in hopes of getting 'er maidened today & ran into a problem. Hope someone sees this quickly & can give me an answer:
What's best way to get a servo out of the wing???

I've got one that in neutral or mid-position (on servo tester) is about 2 notches off-center, & I need to move the arm to center in neutral so it'll match up with the other wing's. Can't get at it with the screwdriver until it's removed, ergo, I'm as stuck as it is!
Servo is glued underneath. i had the same issue with the servo no being centered. Pried mine out with screw driver and hot glued them back in.
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Old Nov 28, 2011, 04:07 AM
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Thanx BlueG, I used that - the screwdriver 'prybar' method, from a tip in another forum. Thanx BO and Invenex for your suggestions too.

I have a plastic ruler with a raised 'gripper bar' down its center - used that for a fulcrum & to spread the pressure as evenly as possible over the wing & keep from making a dent. Applied (as suggested) "persistant pressure" & it started cracking loose, then suddenly let go, coming out clean with minimal foam damage - only a few flakes still stuck to the servo.

For anyone interested, another part of the tip suggests first wrapping the servo with blue painter's tape - makes future removals easy w/o foam damage. Center a pea-sized glob of hi-temp hot glue on the servo, quickly pop it into place & hold pressure for a few secs for the glue to set -- good to go. To remove, pour some slightly less than boiling water over it; softens the glue for easy removal.

Didn't get to maiden the P2K today....first I dropped a screw (the only one like it in 12 surrounding counties, don'tcha know) and spent over an hour crawling around on the carpet sweeping with a magnet....finally found it about 15 feet away from where I dropped it! Incredible how tiny things can bounce, innit? THEN, thought I's gonna make it to our club's field late but still time for a short flight, and during pre-flight discovered I had a bad elevator servo that'd only move in one direction. Hadn't brought any spares so in a pinch swapped it with the rudder servo, but by time I'd finished it was too dark to go up.

♫ Tomorrow, tooo-morrowww, there's always tomorrow.....♪
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Old Nov 28, 2011, 05:12 AM
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Considering that excessive motor heat is apparently an inherent problem with the stock-configured P2K, and other 'hotliners' as well due to the development of 'turbo' style nosecones, I'm wondering if anyone has thought to make their own open-nosed spinner & try it.

The plastic spinner should be easy enough to either bore out a hole or cut off the tip, & I'm planning to do just that -- modify the supplied spare spinner cone -- unless someone can give me a reason (ie bad results from) to not do it.

I plan to run some test flights with the un-mod'd cone, swap to the mod'd 'turbo' cone & repeat. I've got an EagleTree Systems data logger with Brushless Tachometer and 2 temperature sensors which I normally run on the ESC & LiPo. It'll be interesting to see what difference the open-nose version will make. But first, due to the spin of the rear surface of the P2K's motor I'll need to order one of the loop-type sensors so I don't get wires tangled in the motor.

Anyway, thought I'd ask has anyone tried this?
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Old Nov 28, 2011, 05:48 AM
Not a newbie anymore..
skyhawk newbie's Avatar
Ireland, Cork
Joined Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Considering that excessive motor heat is apparently an inherent problem with the stock-configured P2K, and other 'hotliners' as well due to the development of 'turbo' style nosecones, I'm wondering if anyone has thought to make their own open-nosed spinner & try it.
The Phoenix is not a HotLiner , Its a Powered Glider ..
Used the right way with very little modding it's a great glider ...
As a sloper it's even better,once you sort the clevises and dont use or remove the motor . .

Where did you get the idea that the Phoenix was a hotliner ? ?
Warmliner maybe . .

I have a Multiplex Blizzard , now thats a HotLiner ,
the Phoenix is and never will be in the same class . .

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