Originally Posted by fastfwd

man is there a real english manual that tells a guy which screw goes where on these planes ? Hate to put wrong screw in and mess up threads on plastic parts.

On mine, the black screws were for the vertical stab and the silver ones for the HStab bracket.

Hmmm im reading through the posts and see there is a difference between the lanyu bird and the HK bird ?? Got mine from ebay Lanyu , what is the difference and did i make a mistake ?

well she is all together everything works, but i need to get new clevis,s these will hold as i put surgical tube over them to hold them. just need to put decals on or paint it. I got a spinner,a piece of round wood,a bunch of screws,and some small bolts left over ? did anyone else get a extra spinner and wood back ??

Originally Posted by fastfwd

did anyone else get a extra spinner and wood back ??

yes

Originally Posted by fastfwd

?..did anyone else get a extra spinner and wood back ??

Notice it's a nosecone, not a prop spinner. There are no slots for prop blades. It's meant to use if you don't install the motor, eg for slope or unpowered sailplane.

--
Greg

Originally Posted by fastfwd

Hmmm im reading through the posts and see there is a difference between the lanyu bird and the HK bird ?? Got mine from ebay Lanyu , what is the difference and did i make a mistake ?

I don't think you made a mistake. I believe Lanyu makes the glider. Hobbyking sales the Lanyu Phoenix 2000. A Lanyu Phoenix 2000 off ebay should be the same as long as it's Lanyu unless Lanyu is selling a newer version on ebay or Hobbyking.

The only big difference is among the Lanyu Phoenix versions: There is the 2000 that most on this thread have and there is the Phoenix Evolution which is what I have and I believe it's simply a larger/smaller version of the Phoenix 2000. I think I read somewhere on this thread the tail rudder is larger on the Phoenix Evolution.

Originally Posted by botulism

Notice it's a nosecone, not a prop spinner. There are no slots for prop blades. It's meant to use if you don't install the motor, eg for slope or unpowered sailplane.

--
Greg

ahhh i see said the blind man !!

Originally Posted by HoosierGuy

I don't think you made a mistake. I believe Lanyu makes the glider. Hobbyking sales the Lanyu Phoenix 2000. A Lanyu Phoenix 2000 off ebay should be the same as long as it's Lanyu unless Lanyu is selling a newer version on ebay or Hobbyking.

The only big difference is among the Lanyu Phoenix versions: There is the 2000 that most on this thread have and there is the Phoenix Evolution which is what I have and I believe it's simply a larger/smaller version of the Phoenix 2000. I think I read somewhere on this thread the tail rudder is larger on the Phoenix Evolution.

Phoenix Evolution is what i have, it all works great,now to just get it out to fly..

Friends,

Even with the added bottom rudder hinge and having set up the servo travel for full travel to either side in the elevator cutout, I still see very poor rudder response as far as yawing the tail around during power-off flight on my Phoenix 2000. When the high speed flow from the running motor is being pushed past this stock rudder, the deflection of the rudder does have some effect... but while gliding with power off, it takes some time for this glider to respond to rudder deflection.

When hunting smaller thermals with my Multiplex Easy glider (& also with an extensive variety of other gliders which I have built,own, & occasionally fly), I'll typically use cross-controls of rudder & aileron; the rudder controls the turn radius in a tight thermal, while opposite aileron input keeps the wing's bank angle flattened out to maintain altitude more efficiently. The rudder on this Phoenix 2000 is slow to provide a response.

The much larger tail group of the Evolution version that's designed to fly with the 2.6M wing might be really nice. (And maybe I just need to get comfortable with the response that is available form the stock rudder.

VIKING

Originally Posted by viking60

Friends,

Even with the added bottom rudder hinge and having set up the servo travel for full travel to either side in the elevator cutout, I still see very poor rudder response as far as yawing the tail around during power-off flight on my Phoenix 2000. When the high speed flow from the running motor is being pushed past this stock rudder, the deflection of the rudder does have some effect... but while gliding with power off, the rudder is amazingly ineffective. I'm still trying to figure out why this should be, & what to do about it...

When hunting smaller thermals with my Multiplex Easy glider (& also with an extensive variety of other gliders which I have built,own, & occasionally fly), I'll typically use cross-controls of rudder & aileron; the rudder controls the turn radius in a tight thermal, while opposite aileron input keeps the wing's bank angle flattened out to maintain altitude more efficiently. I fly my E-powered custom Spirit 100" glider in the same manner, & it's very responsive to modest rudder control inputs. But the rudder on this Phoenix 2000 has puzzlingly little effectiveness.

It could simply be that the rudder is far too small in area to be effective on this design; the much larger tail group of the Evolution version that's designed to fly with the 2.6M wing would be really nice- wish I'd been aware of this situation before I ordered the 2000. Does anyone know if the tailgroup for the Evolution version can be ordered as a replacement part?

VIKING

I've noticed the same thing re: rudder lack of authority. I am finding it tricky to maintain a nice tight circle unless I bank significantly.

I stiffened my rudder with a curved carbon strip from under the horn to tip, and was going to add a bottom hinge, but don't think I'll bother now after hearing your report.

I hinged the rudder on the bottom side too and I put a couple of carbon pieces in order to stiffen the rudder too.
I don't notice a so big lack of authotihy by the rudder.
It seems to do what it's built for and everything is fine, on that aspect, by my side.
I have to admit that I don't find any benefit by turning with crossed commands (and I don't think there are some) so it's something I don't do.
Anyway... I think that if you need a so big rudder movement to contrast a so big aileron movement there's are some "excesses" in what you are doing...and it's better not to have a bigger rudder that, in my opinion, should be used for other things.
:-)

Richard,

everyone's entitled to their opinions.

I've built & flown gliders since 1982, & started building E-powered gliders back in '83 & '84.

The stock Phoenix 2000 rudder design / setup, with full travel, is only marginally effective; a newbee getting this kit & not understanding this would be at a distinct disadvantage.

As one example, while it may cost a few more bucks, both the design and in-flight performance of the stock Multiplex Easy Glider are better than the Phoenix 2000. The two-piece wing installation is quick, simple, & very effective- mine is still performing great after many years of service.

With the larger Evolution tail group, this may well be a different flying glider.... I hope so. Let us know!

(Below is a photo of three of my more recent designs; all have precise quick rudder response as well as clean aileron response on their flat-built wings with elliptically up-swept wing tips, offering excellent in-flight stability and responsiveness.)

VIKING

Viking,
obviously I respect your opinion and your experience.
Anyway, I think it's a very good thing to add my impressions because...
...I've had the EG Pro too and I can so compare the two "birds".
The EG is slower and I didn't notice anything better, in flight, than the Phoenix 2000 one.
The Phoenix is a little bit faster (loosing a little bit of energy less, while diving it down) and I think it can "compensate" the different wing profile with the presence of the flap that make you change camber dinamically (even if I don't think we are talking about big difference, in caso of EG Pro and in case of Phoenix cambered with flaps).

Nothing to say about quality of material/construction of the EG (but it would be crazy to sell the EG at a higher price if the quality were not better than the Phoenix): you're right, EG material seems to be much better.
This is even the opinion of other persons I exchanged opinion with: EG Pro - Better quality/more durable, Phoenix - Absolutely valid for the Price, "better-looking" and a little bit faster but... cheaper quality.

I wanted a "foam" glider with flap (even just to control the descending angle for landing) and the Phoenix is fine for this, considering (it's important to notice it) that it seems to do (not only to my eyes) what EG Pro can do.

I'm very happy about it and, for the kind of flight I practice, I don't miss any further rudder effect...
Then... maybe I'll be back after the attampt to make a "Hammerhead" without success and the Phoenix in thousands of pieces. Then you will have another person thinking that the rudder has no effect on this model.

Originally Posted by viking60

Richard,

everyone's entitled to their opinions.

I've built & flown gliders since 1982, & started building E-powered gliders back in '83 & '84.

The stock Phoenix 2000 rudder design / setup, with full travel, is only marginally effective; a newbee getting this kit & not understanding this would be at a distinct disadvantage.

As one example, while it may cost a few more bucks, both the design and in-flight performance of the Multiplex Easy Glider are dramatically better than the Phoenix 2000. The two-piece wing installation is quick, simple, & very effective- mine is still performing great after many years of service.

The EG's airfoil shaping, with it's slight under-camber cusp close to the trailing edge is a more efficient gliding wing design than the flat bottom wing on the Phoenix. And It's rudder is designed to give effective control response, as a glider's rudder should. I've sloped it in 30+ MPH winds as well as used it for uncounted hours of thermal riding, and it's still ready to fly today if I choose.

It's sad to consider: A cheap price is only a 'good deal' if the aircraft will perform... so far, the Phoenix 2000 is a loooooong way down my list as it's presently supplied. Improving the rudder design is a critical shortcoming in my book; so I'm just hoping that the 'Evolution' version may have remedied that.

And that's my opinion!

With the larger Evolution tail group, this may well be an entirely different flying glider.... I hope so. Let us know!

I may chop off the existing rudder and fabricate a new design; I'll post photos, details, & a flight report if I do.

(Below is a photo of three of my more recent designs; all have precise rudder response as well as clean aileron response on their flat-built wings with elliptically up-swept wing tips, excellent in-flight stability and responsiveness.)

VIKING

try turning a plane in a flat circle with a rudder that has little effect . when gliding which i am not an expert at,but i like to turn using the rudder and when i have on board video it is a must to keep as level as i can,so yes indeed a rudder that works well is a must !

I have the Evolution and easyglider. Rudder authority on the evolution is a problem also. I needed to get used to the poor rudder... meaning at least a half dozen nail biting landings to teach me.. The Evolution needs it's nose pushed down if you want the rudder at low speeds. I know that may be obvious but after the flying the Easyglider for a few years I was spoiled by being able to toss it around in any direction! That being said, I now fly the Evolution comfortably with the rudder in stock form. I would agree with Viking60 that the easyglider is a great flyer. The easyglider does have amazing (surprising) high wind perfomance.. I have had it in 40mph... really. (with about a 8oz ballast) (easyglider is still together and awesome) I have the Evolution, changed out all the problematic things and like it as part of my fleet..

PS Viking60... Your homebuilt planes are great.. I have my own version of the Flirt built from your specs.. still a favorite.