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Old Nov 21, 2012, 09:42 PM
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You're welcome, mustflynow2.

I see that you are working the angles. My current number one glider is a Specter 1800. I'm using a 350watt motor with a 10 or 11 inch prop and I am, frankly, spoiled. She climbs as high as I want her in about 10 seconds with the 10 inch prop and about 8 seconds with the 11 incher. Did I mention that I'm spoiled?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:16 PM
The Sequel
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Australia, VIC
Joined Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
You're welcome, mustflynow2.

I see that you are working the angles. My current number one glider is a Specter 1800. I'm using a 350watt motor with a 10 or 11 inch prop and I am, frankly, spoiled. She climbs as high as I want her in about 10 seconds with the 10 inch prop and about 8 seconds with the 11 incher. Did I mention that I'm spoiled?
Spoiled? Nah, can never have too much rc stuff.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:21 PM
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Spoiled? Nah, can never have too much rc stuff.
Yes and no. One can't have too much RC stuff but one can be spoiled. The Specter is, to an old timer like myself, very close to a miracle. And there are far better sailplanes out there!
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 09:53 AM
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Joined Sep 2005
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Another approach to adding a rudder bottom hinge

Friends,

One of the most noticeable characteristics of the PHOENIX 2000 'stock' setup is the lack of rudder response in flight. (I'm not the first to mention this...) The photos below show how I have approached adding a bottom hinge to the rudder as an effort towards improving rudder response.

After mounting the tail group on my Phoenix, I noted that the entire tail group could be rotated back and forth a few degrees in either direction from center.... this does not help when you're looking for solid and consistent control response.

From my personal viewpoint, having a removable tail group is only useful IF the mounting is solid & reliable... the slop in the mounting hardware was something that I was not willing to live with. So I glued the tail group solidly to the fuselage, eliminating this movement.

I had added stiffening CF rods to the rudder in hopes that they would help, but the bottom end of the rudder can still flex and move enough to result in the rudder being ineffective when under in-flight loads.

So I decided to add a SIG Easy Hinge to the bottom of the rudder. I used an Exacto fine tooth saw to saw a slot on the center line of the fuselage, used an Exacto knife to make a mating slot in the EPO foam rudder, and slipped in the hinge.

From my repair work on the fuselage's nose, I knew that the "Dave's Flexament" cement would offer a good bond to the nylon plastic fuselage. So once the hinge was in place, I simply wicked in this glue into the entire hinge & area. (I'll trim away the excess protruding hinge material once the glue has dried well.)

The result is a solid installation of a good quality flexible hinge; the installation technique does not require dis-mounting the tailgroup.

I'll report on the in-flight handling after I get a chance to next fly it; the winds are nasty this morning & forecast to gust to 50 MPH or more today.

VIKING
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Okay so the glider is on the way,it is the evolution, i have daves flexament coming, i have new clevis,new 40amp esc, have sig easy hinges,what else i need to replace or fix ? I read something about motor mount is loose ? how about motor itself ? i have a 1250kv i took out of my super sky surfer ?
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viking60 View Post
From my personal viewpoint, having a removable tail group is only useful IF the mounting is solid & reliable... the slop in the mounting hardware was something that I was not willing to live with. So I glued the tail group solidly to the fuselage, eliminating this movement.
I agree.. i noticed the same and i glued the tail surfaces in... i dont like something that can move arround even a bit.. some people can live with it very well tought.. i know guys with Bixlers and EZs with detachable tails wich have the same play and they just fly and dont seem to be afected..

Quote:
I had added stiffening CF rods to the rudder in hopes that they would help, but the bottom end of the rudder can still flex and move enough to result in the rudder being ineffective when under in-flight loads.
Same here... the only solution is to hinge as well in the lower part of the rudder.. just making the rudder more stiff will put aditional stress and eventually will rip the stock foam hinges starting in the lower part..
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
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Originally Posted by fastfwd View Post
Okay so the glider is on the way,it is the evolution, i have daves flexament coming, i have new clevis,new 40amp esc, have sig easy hinges,what else i need to replace or fix ? I read something about motor mount is loose ? how about motor itself ? i have a 1250kv i took out of my super sky surfer ?
Fast,

The motor mount is a multi-layer sandwich; when the 4 screws are snugged down, it's tight. The stock motor is OK for me on the 2000 mm wing version; once you open up the venting holes & put on a vented spinner, it looks to me as though you could prop up this motor - longer folding blades- to get more speed / thrust than what the stock prop can produce without a problem- your 40 Amp ESC will handle it.

Stock motor has the 4 screws on a 16mm diameter circle; if you change motors, you'll possibly get to re-drill for a different mount hole layout- something to keep in mind.

If you go to the higher KV motor (stock one is ~1000 Kv if I remember right) you'll have higher prop RPM, & so it might be good to have a Wattmeter / similar to check what you're drawing for amps. With adequate cooling airflow through the motor, you can work it a lot harder without overheating it. (Keep in mind that while a motor may be ~85% efficient, the other 15% of the power you ask it to handle is dissipated as HEAT!!! If you allow for that heat to be carried away by airflow, you won't be cooking your motor & possibly melting the plastic of the fuselage nose.

With the weight of the stock motor, my aircraft balances with the battery in an easily accessible / adjustable position on the battery tray. On the Evolution, if you have the 2.6 meter wing & the larger tail grouip on the back end, the balancing act will probably vary.

VIKING
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by viking60 View Post
Fast,

The motor mount is a multi-layer sandwich; when the 4 screws are snugged down, it's tight. The stock motor is OK for me on the 2000 mm wing version; once you open up the venting holes & put on a vented spinner, it looks to me as though you could prop up this motor - longer folding blades- to get more speed / thrust than what the stock prop can produce without a problem- your 40 Amp ESC will handle it.

Stock motor has the 4 screws on a 16mm diameter circle; if you change motors, you'll possibly get to re-drill for a different mount hole layout- something to keep in mind.

If you go to the higher KV motor (stock one is ~1000 Kv if I remember right) you'll have higher prop RPM, & so it might be good to have a Wattmeter / similar to check what you're drawing for amps. With adequate cooling airflow through the motor, you can work it a lot harder without overheating it. (Keep in mind that while a motor may be ~85% efficient, the other 15% of the power you ask it to handle is dissipated as HEAT!!! If you allow for that heat to be carried away by airflow, you won't be cooking your motor & possibly melting the plastic of the fuselage nose.

With the weight of the stock motor, my aircraft balances with the battery in an easily accessible / adjustable position on the battery tray. On the Evolution, if you have the 2.6 meter wing & the larger tail grouip on the back end, the balancing act will probably vary.

VIKING
Nice ! thank you.. think ill leave it with stock motor and use the 40amp esc,replace cheap parts ect and make sure i have air flow,then just enjoy the flight
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 09:10 AM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Fast,

sounds like a good plan!

Here's a photo of the air exit holes which I cut in on my Phoenix's fuselage on both sides just aft of the wing mount saddle.

VIKING
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 09:20 PM
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United States, CA, Sacramento
Joined Aug 2011
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Bad Crash on Maiden Due to Intermittent Loss of Control - Three Questions

I received the Phoenix 2000 BNF from HK US a couple months ago but didn't have time to assemble it until this weekend. There was one dead servo (the elevator) which I replaced. The maiden flight started out fine. I took it up a couple hundred feet and turned the motor off. It seemed a bit sluggish in the air but generally was doing okay. I flew large circles for a few minutes getting a feel for it with occasional short bursts for throttle. Once it was down to about 25 feet or so, I pushed the throttle up to 50% to go up again but there was no response. I toggled the throttle a couple times and it finally came on full. The plane then immediately did a loop. I pulled the throttle off immediately but the motor stayed on. The plane did two more graceful loops at (or near) full power before nosing straight into the ground. The battery ejected and was dented. The nose was bent and crumpled. The wing tore away from the rear pair of screws leaving jagged foam. The wood spar cracked a bit but is intact. The vertical stabilizer tore through the two screws attaching it.

I believe I can repair the damage. I've already got the nose back into decent shape by hand.

Questions
  1. I'm trying to figure out what happened with the throttle not responding before tempting gravity again. I've never had that kind of problem before. My radio has always been reliable and the receiver module I was using has worked reliably in another plane. The Phoenix was only 150 feet or so away from me. I was using the stock four servo set up (no flaps). Is this rapid loss and return of response consistent with the description "brown out"? Is this likely attributable to the stock ESC/BEC with only four servos? I now have a 3v SBEC on order from HK. What else should I check? Can anyone suggest troubleshooting steps or advice?

  2. The two holes in the vertical stabilizer that the two screws pass through in the plastic bracket have torn through the foam. How should I repair this? Is there some kind of foam filler that can replace the torn EPO foam and provide new material for the screws to pass through?

  3. I've searched this thread for "Glue" with "EPO" and found very few confident-sounding recommendations for glue. I saw a couple of references to Gorilla Glue White and a couple of mentions of caution with Welder's Glue which is my usual go-to glue (I fly a lot of EPP). So I picked up some Gorilla Glue at Home Depot. Is that what I should use for structural repairs like the wing tearing away from the two rear-most screws? Anyone recommending against Gorilla Glue for EPO?

Thanks for any suggestions or help.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 10:13 PM
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United States, ID, Burley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markran View Post
I received the Phoenix 2000 BNF from HK US a couple months ago but didn't have time to assemble it until this weekend. There was one dead servo (the elevator) which I replaced. The maiden flight started out fine. I took it up a couple hundred feet and turned the motor off. It seemed a bit sluggish in the air but generally was doing okay. I flew large circles for a few minutes getting a feel for it with occasional short bursts for throttle. Once it was down to about 25 feet or so, I pushed the throttle up to 50% to go up again but there was no response. I toggled the throttle a couple times and it finally came on full. The plane then immediately did a loop. I pulled the throttle off immediately but the motor stayed on. The plane did two more graceful loops at (or near) full power before nosing straight into the ground. The battery ejected and was dented. The nose was bent and crumpled. The wing tore away from the rear pair of screws leaving jagged foam. The wood spar cracked a bit but is intact. The vertical stabilizer tore through the two screws attaching it.

I believe I can repair the damage. I've already got the nose back into decent shape by hand.

Questions
  1. I'm trying to figure out what happened with the throttle not responding before tempting gravity again. I've never had that kind of problem before. My radio has always been reliable and the receiver module I was using has worked reliably in another plane. The Phoenix was only 150 feet or so away from me. I was using the stock four servo set up (no flaps). Is this rapid loss and return of response consistent with the description "brown out"? Is this likely attributable to the stock ESC/BEC with only four servos? I now have a 3v SBEC on order from HK. What else should I check? Can anyone suggest troubleshooting steps or advice?

  2. The two holes in the vertical stabilizer that the two screws pass through in the plastic bracket have torn through the foam. How should I repair this? Is there some kind of foam filler that can replace the torn EPO foam and provide new material for the screws to pass through?

  3. I've searched this thread for "Glue" with "EPO" and found very few confident-sounding recommendations for glue. I saw a couple of references to Gorilla Glue White and a couple of mentions of caution with Welder's Glue which is my usual go-to glue (I fly a lot of EPP). So I picked up some Gorilla Glue at Home Depot. Is that what I should use for structural repairs like the wing tearing away from the two rear-most screws? Anyone recommending against Gorilla Glue for EPO?

Thanks for any suggestions or help.
for the foam i use the gorilla glue it works great,(it does expand so dont use to much) for the fuselage i have daves flexament, From reading in this thread the stock esc is a POS and should be replaced first ! also replace all the cheap garbage clevis's, i cant say it was the esc,but that seems to be the culprit on most crashes with this plane. Mine will be here tomorrow,and the stock esc and all clevis's will be gone in a heart beat
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 10:16 PM
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Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markran View Post
I received the Phoenix 2000 BNF from HK US a couple months ago but didn't have time to assemble it until this weekend. There was one dead servo (the elevator) which I replaced. The maiden flight started out fine. I took it up a couple hundred feet and turned the motor off. It seemed a bit sluggish in the air but generally was doing okay. I flew large circles for a few minutes getting a feel for it with occasional short bursts for throttle. Once it was down to about 25 feet or so, I pushed the throttle up to 50% to go up again but there was no response. I toggled the throttle a couple times and it finally came on full. The plane then immediately did a loop. I pulled the throttle off immediately but the motor stayed on. The plane did two more graceful loops at (or near) full power before nosing straight into the ground. The battery ejected and was dented. The nose was bent and crumpled. The wing tore away from the rear pair of screws leaving jagged foam. The wood spar cracked a bit but is intact. The vertical stabilizer tore through the two screws attaching it.

I believe I can repair the damage. I've already got the nose back into decent shape by hand.

Questions
  1. I'm trying to figure out what happened with the throttle not responding before tempting gravity again. I've never had that kind of problem before. My radio has always been reliable and the receiver module I was using has worked reliably in another plane. The Phoenix was only 150 feet or so away from me. I was using the stock four servo set up (no flaps). Is this rapid loss and return of response consistent with the description "brown out"? Is this likely attributable to the stock ESC/BEC with only four servos? I now have a 3v SBEC on order from HK. What else should I check? Can anyone suggest troubleshooting steps or advice?

  2. The two holes in the vertical stabilizer that the two screws pass through in the plastic bracket have torn through the foam. How should I repair this? Is there some kind of foam filler that can replace the torn EPO foam and provide new material for the screws to pass through?

  3. I've searched this thread for "Glue" with "EPO" and found very few confident-sounding recommendations for glue. I saw a couple of references to Gorilla Glue White and a couple of mentions of caution with Welder's Glue which is my usual go-to glue (I fly a lot of EPP). So I picked up some Gorilla Glue at Home Depot. Is that what I should use for structural repairs like the wing tearing away from the two rear-most screws? Anyone recommending against Gorilla Glue for EPO?

Thanks for any suggestions or help.
I discovered the same problem you encountered with the throttle on my 2nd flight. It was most likely due to your folding prop catching on the edge of your canopy. The solution I used was to use a 4 in. piece of electrical tape along that edge of the canopy. I use red tape so I can easily see that it is in place.

Answer to your second question about Gorilla Glue? Yes, it is a good choice for EPO foam particularily if you need to fill gaps because it expands during the curing process. Use the original formula, not the white. I've successfully restored some seriously damaged EPO models like a Multiplex Funjet back into a very flyable form with Gorilla Glue.

Full power with the P2K will always result in a loop unless you apply a lot of down elevator. Even when landing without power and full flaps, I apply nearly full down elevator. I have well over a 100 successful flights with a completely stock setup and it works for me :-)
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Digiflier View Post
I discovered the same problem you encountered with the throttle on my 2nd flight. It was most likely due to your folding prop catching on the edge of your canopy. The solution I used was to use a 4 in. piece of electrical tape along that edge of the canopy. I use red tape so I can easily see that it is in place.

Answer to your second question about Gorilla Glue? Yes, it is a good choice for EPO foam particularily if you need to fill gaps because it expands during the curing process. Use the original formula, not the white. I've successfully restored some seriously damaged EPO models like a Multiplex Funjet back into a very flyable form with Gorilla Glue.

Full power with the P2K will always result in a loop unless you apply a lot of down elevator. Even when landing without power and full flaps, I apply nearly full down elevator. I have well over a 100 successful flights with a completely stock setup and it works for me :-)
Hmmm good to know ! Is it because the plane is so light or the motor is that powerful ??
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Digiflier View Post
Full power with the P2K will always result in a loop unless you apply a lot of down elevator. Even when landing without power and full flaps, I apply nearly full down elevator.
I can understand the first thing (due to the lack of the right motor incidence angle) but... I can't understand the second one. It seems a CG problem...
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:39 AM
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United States, CA, Sacramento
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiflier View Post
I discovered the same problem you encountered with the throttle on my 2nd flight. It was most likely due to your folding prop catching on the edge of your canopy. The solution I used was to use a 4 in. piece of electrical tape along that edge of the canopy. I use red tape so I can easily see that it is in place.
Hmmmm, I can understand how the canopy might trap the prop and keep it from spinning but how would it cause the other symptom of the motor staying on while the throttle was off?
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