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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:46 PM
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United States, ID, Burley
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Originally Posted by viking60 View Post
FLIGHT PERFORMANCE REPORT



First flight went well- (that is, up until I lost it in the sun after about ten minutes of flying... it was certainly not a problem with how the aircraft is flying, but with my aging eyes, I'm sad to say...) Prior to that incident the flight was very good, from the first launch & climb-out. After initial trim fine-tuning & cruising about, I adjusted the throttle > elevator mix setting on my RD8000 transmitter during successive full throttle climb-outs to minimize the zoom on climb.

I found the glide efficiency performance good; elevator, aileron and rudder response is clean and effective, typical of other similar 2 meter gliders I've built & flown.

Climb performance of the stock motor with the 10.5 x 6 prop was certainly very adequate for what I was looking for with the Phoenix 2000; the stock motor & ESC that came with this Version III kit (shipped from the H.K. USA warehouse in early November 2012) are performing as they should in a 41.5 ounce glider. (The 3S 1800 Nano-Tech battery packs are known for holding a high voltage under load, and that might contribute to having decent climb-out performance too. It's not a competition or race type design, after all.)

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:

Maybe the ESC that's being produced and supplied now is built better than what was produced for the early versions of the kit... that's a possibility. And maybe investing the extra efforts to provide adequate cooling airflow through the motor and mounting the ESC to the underside of the battery tray for adequate cooling are something that's a good idea, no matter which motor and ESC you choose to fly.

I intended to set up & fly this 2 meter EPO winged glider primarily for thermal hunting & efficient power-off gliding- to be able to climb up to about 400 feet AGL in about 20 seconds, shut down the motor, & glide, using whatever rising air I encounter. I'll fly it on the slopes, too, where I expect it to handle well.

NOTE: The canopy fits in place beautifully, & should stay in place nicely. However, the left edge still protrudes enough to catch the very sharply shaped leading edges of the Aero-Naut folding prop blades which I'm using; the quick remedy is to apply a strip of 1/2" wide clear scotch tape in the area before launch. I may see about sanding that edge of the canopy thinner at the area where the folding prop blade catches, to eliminate that issue, & eliminate the need for applying the tape. (The canopy may actually need some careful heating & narrowing on the front end to really clear the prop blades.)

VIKING
wow dont leave me hanging like that did you crash and burn when you lost it in the sun ?? I am waiting for this baby to arrive on my door step.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 08:41 AM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
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wow dont leave me hanging like that did you crash and burn when you lost it in the sun ?? I am waiting for this baby to arrive on my door step.
There was a brilliant white cloud in the area of sky with the sun, downwind from me- I put the transmitter up between me & the sun to block it & wait for the glider to fly out of it, but it was out about 800 feet downwind & maybe 300 feet above the ground from where I was standing, flying a cross-wind leg, & winds were gusting to 16 to18 MPH.... I simply could never see where it came out of that hard-to-look-at patch of sky- just couldn't locate it again.

After a bit, knowing that it was trimmed well for hands-off flight, & knowing that it could get taken up into that cloud & carried downwind a long ways, I decided to bite the bullet, and to put it down within an area where I could possibly find it later. So I kicked in full left rudder & full up elevator & held it for a while.

After I while, when I had let off the sticks, I kicked it to full throttle to see if I could possibly hear the motor / prop in the distance... but there wasn't a sound to be heard. It was grounded by then... all I had to do was locate it.

It had hit fairly hard on the nose with the left wing down- I had to put the wing back together (hot melt glue & some iron-on laminating film, re-hinge the detatched left aileron, then do a paint touch-up on the underside) & do some work on the nose of the fuselage.

Motor & vented folding prop came through fine, ESC, servos & receiver still working fine- love those metal geared servos! [I also repaired some damage to the battery tray and the servo tray. The battery pack came through fine. Receiver had it's thin antenna wire broken, so I soldered the break.]

The nylon plastic nose was pushed in out of shape (about 3/4 of an inch) on the bottom left. With the motor & battery tray removed, I pushed it back out & worked it back into it's proper shape, cleaned it with alcohol (so the adhesives had a good chance of bonding), then started sealing a top split joint & a couple of other tears in the lower edge of the fuselage nose with the Flexament, applied with a small brush in successive applications. I used some nylon mesh to overlay the top split seam on the outside, & more flexament. After the coats of Flexament had set well, I applied non-thinned GOOP to the interior and exterior damaged / torn nylon areas. These adhesives seem to be bonding well to the fuselage material. The result is shown in the photo below, ready for the trim tape to be applied over the repaired area.

So it's ready to fly again later this morning, once the day warms up a bit and the thermals start to form. Up here in the 31% thinner air of Colorado's high country, the thermals start to form sparsely by ~9:30 AM, and generate & pass through my flying site more frequently & more dynamically by 11:00 AM. It's a brilliant blue sky day today- excellent visibility!
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 08:43 AM
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P.S.: I am impressed with how well this glider came through this rough landing... It is fairly tough, & repairable.

VIKING
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:21 AM
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United States, ID, Burley
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Originally Posted by viking60 View Post
P.S.: I am impressed with how well this glider came through this rough landing... It is fairly tough, & repairable.

VIKING
sweet ! Glad you found it and it was repairable ! Mine will be here around dec 6th or so, so good to know it can handle wind,as the wind forever blows in Idaho
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:58 PM
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
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Motor Mount Vents opening is working to keep motor & ESC cool

After another ~1/2 hour flying my Phoenix this morning I want to mention that there are NO SIGNS OF MOTOR OVERHEATING of my stock motor when the four vent holes are opened and the vented spinner / midpart are used. I was doing a series of climbs & then power off glides in cool early day air; when I finally landed for the last time, I popped off the canopy, disconnected the cool battery pack, and placed a finger on the motor; it was actually cool to the touch.

Yes, it was a cool morning, but my conclusion is that anyone buying a Phoenix 2000 might want to get the venting opened in those last two layers - (They are already cut / open in three of the five layers in the motor mount / nose of the fuselage.)

(Thanks for the info & video on setting the BRAKE to ON.)

VIKING
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by viking60 View Post
After another ~1/2 hour flying my Phoenix this morning I want to mention that there are NO SIGNS OF MOTOR OVERHEATING of my stock motor when the four vent holes are opened and the vented spinner / midpart are used. I was doing a series of climbs & then power off glides in cool early day air; when I finally landed for the last time, I popped off the canopy, disconnected the cool battery pack, and placed a finger on the motor; it was actually cool to the touch.

Yes, it was a cool morning, but my conclusion is that anyone buying a Phoenix 2000 might want to get the venting opened in those last two layers - (They are already cut / open in three of the five layers in the motor mount / nose of the fuselage.)

NOTE - The stock ESC does not have a prop brake feature / capability from anything I can discover- it does not seem to be able to do that, so the propeller windmills continuously during gliding flight. This produces a lot of drag... it is a good motivation to replace the ESC with a programmable model such as the TURNIGY PLUSH series, etc. I have a 30 Amp one of these in the hangar which will likely go into mine before long. [When using the stock motor, I'm not seeing a need to use the 40 Amp one that I had bought for use with a larger motor for a different aircraft.]

VIKING
Thank you for all the info, i always replace stock esc with an upgrade on all new planes,i have had to many stock ones go bad in flight very happy to hear the stock motor is adequate as i like to have enough power to get me out of trouble
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:07 AM
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I flew my phoenix glider tonight with my LED lights. Another great night! I love flying at night.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:33 AM
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Australia, VIC
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Originally Posted by HoosierGuy View Post
I flew my phoenix glider tonight with my LED lights. Another great night! I love flying at night.
great HG, how's that vid coming of your bright, night phoenix?

here is a little one, spent some time checking control surfaces, hinges, horn/clevis, servo set up etc

Phoenix ail flap 1 (0 min 22 sec)
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:55 AM
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Setting the stock ESC brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by viking60 View Post
NOTE - The stock ESC does not have a prop brake feature / capability from anything I can discover- it does not seem to be able to do that, so the propeller windmills continuously during gliding flight.
The brake on the stock ESC works fine for me. The only windmilling I have had is when I had the screws a little too tight.

The brake was on by default for me, but apparently it is not always.
This is an old video and may not be relevant if the ESC type has changed recently, but may be worth a try?

How to set brake on Phoenix 2000 glider (2 min 40 sec)
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mustflynow2 View Post
Nice! I have a similar setup on mine using open9x.

It looks like for 'full span ailerons' you use equal deflection for the the inboard flaps and ailerons? I'm using 50% of Aileron for flaps and it works well.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by maca55 View Post
Nice! I have a similar setup on mine using open9x.

It looks like for 'full span ailerons' you use equal deflection for the the inboard flaps and ailerons? I'm using 50% of Aileron for flaps and it works well.
Actually I've had it packed away under the bed the last week or so, and have been flying a composite 2m. But I'm waiting on a new motor for that plane and I don't want to get too involved with it until it comes, so I thought I'd set up the phoenix again. Previously had a 6 channel rx so y lead on flaps, now 7, so seperate channels, same as the composite, but haven't flown yet. Fullspan ail is the only addition. Rolls have been pretty lazy, so lets see what happens. I like just a little flap for camber, without ail, never really bothered with crow, although its there and I should practice cos I definetly need it with the composite. Anyway will get out tomorrow all going well and maybe have a crack at your 2000 ft mark. Got some fresh 40c packs and the 13x9 on so maybe get there in 40 secs if I can keep my eye on it!
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mustflynow2 View Post
great HG, how's that vid coming of your bright, night phoenix?

here is a little one, spent some time checking control surfaces, hinges, horn/clevis, servo set up etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV7IC...ature=youtu.be
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the info & video on setting the BRAKE to ON. My ESC sounds a different series of beeps than those in the video- maybe a newer version? - but the second in the sequence, a set of two double beeps, is for the brake setting- if you chop the throttle stick from top to bottom just after they sound, the BRAKE on-off setting is toggled.

Now the brake is stopping the 10.5 x 6 folding prop in flight just fine!


VIKING
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by viking60 View Post
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the info & video on setting the BRAKE to ON. My ESC sounds a different series of beeps than those in the video- maybe a newer version? - but the second in the sequence, a set of two double beeps, is for the brake setting- if you chop the throttle stick from top to bottom just after they sound, the BRAKE on-off setting is toggled.

Now the brake is stopping the 10.5 x 6 folding prop in flight just fine!


VIKING
thanks to Maca on that one V60. glad you got your brake working.

I had a quick squirt around the surburban skys this morning to see how it balanced out, a little nose heavy and under powered it seems. i am using a different esc than before set up for the hitec telemetry. I went through some timing settings yesterday but I don't think it is quite right. anyway a few pics here for fugitive bill, cos he liked the emeter so much.
no chance for a long climb to great height as the cloud was low and I would prefer to do it out in the country, and I think with a flying buddy next to me to keep an eye on things.
well this is a little plot of dirt where I usually fly smaller planes, hard to keep the phoenix contained let alone the composite 2m I like to fly.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Hi, mustflynow2.

Have you tried a prop with bigger diameter and lower, or equal, pitch? Even back when I flew my first control line planes, a looooooong time ago, engine and airplane manufacturers have tended to go with too much pitch and too high a static RPM. They get caught up with "pitch speed" instead of thrust. I went from a plastic 10X6 to a CF 12X5 on my ASW 28 and it went from barely adequate thrust to more than adequate thrust with no problems.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 09:35 PM
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Australia, VIC
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Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
Hi, mustflynow2.

Have you tried a prop with bigger diameter and lower, or equal, pitch? Even back when I flew my first control line planes, a looooooong time ago, engine and airplane manufacturers have tended to go with too much pitch and too high a static RPM. They get caught up with "pitch speed" instead of thrust. I went from a plastic 10X6 to a CF 12X5 on my ASW 28 and it went from barely adequate thrust to more than adequate thrust with no problems.
I am happy with 13x6.5 cf, I used 13x9 himark nylon this morn but there were too many other variables at play, different esc that was being used on a 4 pole inrunner with low timing that I left as is because the throttle responce was smooth but I think a mid range timing migh be better. i was getting power I expect, between 550 and 600 watts. The other change was the 1800mah batt which are new and a 40c marking I am only asking 35amp draw so all good, the should be up to it.
I agree, thrust is what it is about here, my post 2401 shows rpm at 8200-8400. i have tried 14 in prop and found the rpm too low, and some torque issues arose. I was thinking of a 900 watt motor (with similar kv) to run bigger props again, but nose weight is an issue and the strength of the firewall, nylon and all. I think this is about the limit really.
Of course it doesn't help when I'm flying a composite machine with a little more power and then step back to this. Thanks for the comment peter
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