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Old Aug 14, 2012, 10:06 AM
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Australia, VIC, Chadstone
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Originally Posted by Little Black Duck View Post
I will be scrapping all the electronic bits, together with all the servos replaced
Do you mean bought the ARF kit - the one that comes with no Motor, no ESC, and no Servos?

The ARF kit must really fly like CR@P with the 'stock electronic bits'. Now I see why you are scrapping them all
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 12:10 PM
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Oviedo
Joined Jun 2010
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Well Phoenix is in flight order again (or at least powered fligh order)..

extracted the broken pieces of the stock plywood support and made a new one out of 3mm "aviation plywood" wich is high quality (and expensive).. also replaced the betraying metal external support for a X mount and used longer screws.. now should be really well fixed with 3mm good plywood between the front fuselage and the motor..hope it holds ok
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 07:25 PM
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Thornleigh - 20k N of Sydney,N.S.W.,AUSTRALIA
Joined Aug 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maca55 View Post
Do you mean bought the ARF kit - the one that comes with no Motor, no ESC, and no Servos?

The ARF kit must really fly like CR@P with the 'stock electronic bits'. Now I see why you are scrapping them all
Well After reading the specs on the HK website, I think my version just does'nt have the motor.
But either way, even it does come as a bare airframe, with no equipt, It wouldn't matter, 'cos if it had, I'd have binned them anyway, because the airframe is a good one, and definitely the right price!
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 04:05 AM
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New Zealand, Taranaki, New Plymouth
Joined Aug 2012
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Well finally got my Phoenix Evolution assembled....just as well it was RTF the instructions were worse than awful!! Everything actually went together rather well (ie the bits fitted, just you had to guess what was supposed to go with what).

Took it for its 1st test flight (lots of throwing it ) CoG is at about 75mm. 1st up trim was not bad, just needed a little more elevator.

Got confident and gave it a bit of power part way through one throw and damn it just took off!! Only about 50% power and it pretty much just climbed away, did about 10 sec of power and then caught some nice lift. Found it to be overly responsive to elevator, and the addition of power made it want to stand on its tail.

Very pleased with 1st session after long time off. A few more sessions like this and it will be off to Back Beach. Current aim is to try and keep it as stock as possible. I bought this to be a glider, not a powered plane, currently the electrics have been fine, no issue with range or motor control, can't really comment on engine temp as it has only had a short run.

Biggles51 - They still have not found the bodies the sea has been really rough since the accident...it's has had a pretty big impact on the community
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 06:12 AM
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United States, IN
Joined Jan 2012
795 Posts
Lanyu Phoenix Evolution Glider Motor melting fuselage issue fixed (9 min 0 sec)
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 04:42 PM
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United States, CA, Grass Valley
Joined Dec 2009
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Back in the sky

Got my Phoenix back in the air. The battery tray was destroyed along with the spinner, motor mount. I mounted the stock motor outside on the firewall with a X mount. I used 1/8 inch plywood disk and mounted that to the firewall. I used the thick firewall and the spinner that came with the plane that was intended for slope use. I mounted the round plywood inside, on the firewall, and the one good existing wood mount and my 1/8 inch plywood piece on the outside. The metal X mount is a little bigger than the stock mounts so I needed a larger diameter piece of wood for the X mount. I still used the one good wood mount on the outside and screwed that into the wood mount on the inside of the firewall. I added a little weight doing all of this so time will tell if this is too much weight. Can anyone guess what I made my cowling out of? The battery tray is longer and extends to the servo tray so I can move the battery back. The plane is officially ugly by my own opinion, oh well I didn't buy this plane for a beauty contest. I bought this to be my rough terrain glider. I have had one short flight and all seems well.
Gary
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 04:47 PM
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I have a theory that will make any "ugly" plane look better. Just fly 50 feet higher.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 05:07 PM
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United States, IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dumb Thumb View Post
Can anyone guess what I made my cowling out of? The battery tray is longer and extends to the servo tray so I can move the battery back. The plane is officially ugly by my own opinion, oh well I didn't buy this plane for a beauty contest. I bought this to be my rough terrain glider. I have had one short flight and all seems well.
Gary

Nice. I'm interested in your cowling. I have no idea what you made it out of but hope you tell.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 08:22 PM
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Thornleigh - 20k N of Sydney,N.S.W.,AUSTRALIA
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Originally Posted by SarjeNZ View Post
Well finally got my Phoenix Evolution assembled....just as well it was RTF the instructions were worse than awful!! Everything actually went together rather well (ie the bits fitted, just you had to guess what was supposed to go with what). ..........

..........Got confident and gave it a bit of power part way through one throw and damn it just took off!! Only about 50% power and it pretty much just climbed away, did about 10 sec of power and then caught some nice lift. Found it to be overly responsive to elevator, and the addition of power made it want to stand on its tail.
Edited out parts of Sarje's post ....

Re the instructions ... which are in Chinglish, which doesn't help ... they ARE pretty crook, and it's even worse if you've bought the bare bones version with nothing fitted, and have to start from scratch.
Pity help a newbie getting this as a first model. He/she would have to have some expert help! .... Illustrations are pretty good though, which helps a little.

In regard to the 'standing on it's tail' when power is applied. There is obviously a need for a fair amount of down thrust to be given to the motor ... at least in Sarje's model anyway. ... Or at least a check made that there is no upthrust in relation to fuselage's horiz. datum. Here too, including a little right thrust would't hurt either when doing this check.
This cure is far better than mixing down elevator to throttle, because if a climb away is needed after an aborted landing close to the ground, the last thing you need is down elevator driving you into the ground, which comes on before the motor thrust takes effect! Of course if you're quick enough, you can correct the down elevator with an application of up, but it's better not to have to think about it. Pitch control should be solely the job of the elevator. The motor should really have no effect on the aircraft's attitude in the air ... Only its speed.
Hope this info. Is helpful.
Daffy.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 08:53 PM
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My guess is that Gary's cowling is a plastic coffee cup or, perhaps, a bottle.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Gold Coast Australia
Joined Sep 2010
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Evolution Model

Hi Sarge,
Thanks for report and great that first flight went OK.
The first thing to get your head around is that you need to input down elevator
in little on/ off increments as you climb out under power. I found in my early days that this was against all natural tendencies....hell I want to get it up there, haul down on that elevator.....LOL
This prevents the too high nose pitch up which can/ will induce the stall. We jokingly refer to it as "climbing the stairs" when you are under power going up.
Its a joint venture between thumbs.....throttle on the one hand and elevator on the other.
We teach the new guys to hand launch at about 50% throttle, level pushout , keep the nose level for 20 or so metres and then let it climb out at a nice 30 degree angle. Input down rudder in little doses to keep the angle of climb
even. If you have somebody available to hand launch for you that can help having both thumbs in play straightaway.
If you do get in a stall and it pitches into an unplanned loop my advice is to carry on with the loop, throttle back as you come over the top, get the nose and wings level and then start again. All trusting you had enough height to start with
Sorry did not mean to deliver a sermon....
Look forward to the picks ( and video later on) I will get all nostalgic!!
What part of New Plymouth are you flying from now
Hey Daffy,
I cant think of a powered glider that does not pitch up under more than say 50%
power. While the right amount of down thrust is an issue, IMO it is better to "learn" about elevator control rather than play around with elevator incidence and throttle/ elevator mix at this stage. IMO its probably the real first step in right thumb/ left thumb co-ordination and then rudder / aleron coirdination as stage 2.
Kepp up the posts and look forward to hearing how your setup play out.
Regards
Tony
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 11:03 PM
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United States, CA, Grass Valley
Joined Dec 2009
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Cowling

My cowling is made out of a plastic prescription bottle painted black.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 02:36 AM
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Thornleigh - 20k N of Sydney,N.S.W.,AUSTRALIA
Joined Aug 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles51 View Post
Hey Daffy,
I cant think of a powered glider that does not pitch up under more than say 50%
power. While the right amount of down thrust is an issue, IMO it is better to "learn" about elevator control rather than play around with elevator incidence and throttle/ elevator mix at this stage. IMO its probably the real first step in right thumb/ left thumb co-ordination and then rudder / aleron coirdination as stage 2.
Kepp up the posts and look forward to hearing how your setup play out.
Regards
Tony
Biggles mate ... now there's a name that's a blast from my past ... I could not agree more with you suggesting that it is important to learn about elevator control under power.
However an e-sailplane when trimmed properly, should really fly straight and level, or climbing slightly, at whatever throttle setting is used, either just tooling around, or full using power for a go-around, or climbing for height, where judicious use of the elevator would obviously be used.
You have probably heard of the term Power Stall. This is where the thrust is less than the weight of the airframe, and cannot lift it vertically. This happening close to the ground is fatal ... I know ... it happened to me ... very quickly !!! ... and was directly caused, as diagnosed in the following 'autopsy' by far more knowledgeable blokes than this Little Black Duck, as insufficient downthrust causing the aircraft to pitch up strongly when launched ... much as was described earlier in this thread, as 'Standing on its tail', with insufficient thrust to keep going.
Also, at the risk of repeating myself, although not directly related to the above, which usually occurs when launching, you would not want to have to think too hard what could happen when on late finals, where a last minute decision to go around is made, if down elevator was mixed to throttle, where the elevator would kick in straight away, and before, in real terms, the motor's increased thrust would take effect. Result ... a rather ignominiuous unintended arrival, with the motor now running full tilt. The result is a forgone conclusion!
If a P2K flyer, preferably not a newbie, where things tend to happen too quickly, especially close to the ground! ... prefers to fly with this aircraft as is, using the 'step method', then IMHO he/she will learn to use the elevator PDQ.

As a matter of interest ... maybe ... on checking my fuselage, it not only has some upthrust in the motor mount nose moulding, found by using a fuselage datum measured from the tailplane platform, and assuming, as it is in most cases, that this is 0deg, but it also has a slight bend to the left along the length of the fuselage ... i.e. it ain't straight! Might be a good idea for other P2K users to check this out too. Might help to get it to 'straighten up and fly right'.
Daffy
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 06:28 AM
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Thornleigh - 20k N of Sydney,N.S.W.,AUSTRALIA
Joined Aug 2001
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Quick addendum to above in relation to throttle / elev mixing.
If you have a more sophisticated Tx where the down elev mix can be delayed until at least 1/3 throttle is used, then what I wrote above can largely be ignored.
This info recvd from my mentor, just tonight actually, who inspired me earlier to upgrade to a Spektrum DX7s, from my earlier DX6i ... which, I have to say, is still a very good radio despite its limitations in comparison to the DX7s where this sort of mixing can be effected.
Daffy
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 11:14 AM
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United States, CA, Grass Valley
Joined Dec 2009
724 Posts
LBD:
The fuse had a little curve to the right when it was new. I did not measure it but when it was on the bench I could see it. After hitting the ground hard I know there is a wowie in it now. I also had a curve down on my right wing after my big crash. I had to bend the wing back up on the bench. It was very stressful holding the wing down where the flap servo is and grabbing the wing by the aileron servo mount and pulling hard up to straighten the metal tubing back out. I thought the wing was going to bust in pieces, it didn't. I completed my last mod for now on the rudder. I added a pivot point on the bottom. I was going to move the control horn and pushrod up, but decided to take the easier route and add a pivot point. I need a little more tail weight anyway if I want to use a 1800Mah battery anyway. I made this out of a old window shade mount, a small machine screw, and a small carbon fiber tube for the screw to go into.
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