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Old May 25, 2012, 01:52 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
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Here you go
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1062
Andy
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Old May 25, 2012, 07:33 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
5,680 Posts
Or, for the no-hoops version:
Wing mount screws - Supplied are Phillips Pan Hd M3-.50 x 35 (front) & 20 (rear) (2 of each length).
For the front 35mm length, 30mm will work just fine.
If you go to the Socket Head (Allen) Hex version, M3 takes 2.5mm key.
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Old May 25, 2012, 08:07 AM
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Thank you
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Old May 31, 2012, 09:53 PM
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Joined Sep 2011
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Finally finished- Maiden flight!

I built this bird "bonsai" style from the kit version, a tiny bit at a time over the last 9 months or so. I do most of my builds this way, as I never have a big enough chunk of time to do it all at once. The advantage was that I had plenty of time to study the Phoenix 2000 and choose what to do. I made a few improvements that I would not have made if I had built it in day or two.

Mods list:

1. Joined wing reinforcements in each wing. The stock ones end and begin again right at the cutout for the aileron servo, which is a weak point anyways because of the missing foam. I used a hollow CF rod to connect them, with plenty of overlap. I just cut into the foam from the bottom, glued in the reinforcement, then taped over with fiber tape.

2. Extensive fiber tape on the wing. I put strips on the leading and trailing edges, straight down the top and bottom of both wings, and an X of fiber tape on the top and bottom of each wing to counter any twisting. The goal was to make sure the wing would survive high speed aerobatics and hard landings. I discovered that fiber tape sticks to the previous layer much better if the gloss is sanded out of it. It was very tedious, but each piece of tape got sanded with 240 grit before any tape was placed over it.

3. Connected the elevator halves. I used a CF tube the existing reinforcements fit inside of, and used it to bridge the "gap" in the elevator. I had to trim the rudder a little for clearance, but not much.

4. Eliminated the firewall. I cut the firewall out entirely, and mounted the motor to the battery tray instead. I have a previous post about that. I did weigh the modified battery tray, and it weighs 35 grams. I don't know what the battery tray weighed before, so I don't know how much I added. I did this to securely fit a 35-48 900kv motor turning a 13x8 CF prop.

5. Moved servo tray rearward to make as much room as possible for moving the battery around to adjust CG.

6. Installed flaps.

7. Fiber taped tail as well. Also used a strip of clear packing tape down each side of the fuselage as a hand grip aid.

8. Mounted a Corona RP8D1 72 mhz receiver embedded in the left wing, routing the antenna down a slot cut into the bottom of the wing. I used short servo extensions with their plugs glued into keyed groups so I have a single plug to pull to separate the wing from the fuse, and one more to separate the wings. They can't be plugged in wrong accidentally.

9. "Moved" the canopy mount holes. The "nubs" on the canopy were not fitting all the way into the holes in the fuselage, leaving the front of the canopy raised a little, which could catch the prop. Upon close inspection, I found that the holes were a tiny bit too small, and the front ones were not quite in the right spot. I was able to take a hobby knife and enlarge the holes in the right direction, leaving a larger hole centered in a slightly different spot. Now the canopy snaps on and off easily, sits flush, and can't catch the prop. No need for tape, at least on mine.

10. Paint. Yellow on top, red on bottom for high visibility. I used fusion paint for plastic, and sanded first. It does come off if scraped, but it doesn't just fall off. I added prismatic film to the wingtips for a "sparkle" effect in case the thing gets too far away and I need to re-acquire it visually.

That's the big stuff anyways. I went with 72 mhz because I want to eventually do FPV and it gives much better range than 2.4. I need a new transmitter though, as mine is a really old Kyosho series 91 with one mix (aileron/rudder). I'd really like to be able to do full span flaperons, crow, and all that fancy stuff. Because of the simple radio, I had to bias the linkages to get differential ailerons. I went with a pretty aggressive differential, as I was warned here that the adverse yaw is severe with this plane. Final weight, ready to fly with 3000 mAh lipo is about 3.5 pounds. Heavy for a glider, but I'm not really using it as a glider. I usually fly in wind and I don't bother with chasing thermals. Think of it as a large slope soarer that doesn't need a slope.

Since I like the flight characteristics of the rearmost of the acceptable CG range on most planes, I set the CG to the rearmost value I found on this thread, which was 85mm. I though it would be fine, as my Skyfly 2 flies the way I like with it's CG at about the 40% chord point, and 85mm is ahead of that on the P2000 wing. 85mm turned out to be too far aft, especially for the conditions. I meant to get it in the air in the morning, but didn't make it until 2pm when the winds had picked up. It flew great in "floaty mode" at this CG, but as soon as I flew faster it got unstable, like balancing one ball on top of another. It also tended to "weathervane" away from the wind. Flying right into the wind was fine, but as soon as I turned one way or another, it would just turn around and fly downwind unless I countered early enough with a heavy control input. I think the aft CG works on the Skyfly 2 because of the highly cambered wing (the bottom is quite concave). Dropping the flaps a little on the phoenix effectively giving the wing some camber did help things a little. Once my thumbs calmed down I brought it in for a landing after a fairly short flight. Any maiden where the plane comes back unharmed is a successful one. I am going to have another flight this weekend with the CG a little farther forward, I'm sure it will fly better.

Here's a video of the maiden. I don't usually have video from the ground, but the maiden flight of a plane I've spent 9 months building is a big enough deal to get my wife to come out and see it, so she recorded some video for me and I edited it together with the in flight video. You'll notice the climb rate surprised her too. Enjoy!

Modified Phoenix 2000 First Flight (3 min 50 sec)
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Old Jun 01, 2012, 12:25 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Easily saw the 'vane-ing' you mention -- turns didn't look too graceful. With weight a little more on the nose you should see a marked difference in how it both flies & turns, with the additional 'punch thru' you'll have. Seems like you kept power applied almost the entire time -- I only remember the prop folding once, just as you were about to land. Just your style, or was that a necessity to keep it flying & controlled?
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Old Jun 02, 2012, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Easily saw the 'vane-ing' you mention -- turns didn't look too graceful. With weight a little more on the nose you should see a marked difference in how it both flies & turns, with the additional 'punch thru' you'll have. Seems like you kept power applied almost the entire time -- I only remember the prop folding once, just as you were about to land. Just your style, or was that a necessity to keep it flying & controlled?
A little of each. I did cut the power once besides the landing. I lost altitude and went downwind startlingly fast, so I put the power back on. If you look closely you'll see the point when I get uncomfortably close to the ground over some pretty rough vegetaton. It was definitely easier to control with some power applied, but not too much. I don't think I ever got past 50%. (This plane is going to be a hoot once I get it sorted and can use full throttle!)
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Old Jun 02, 2012, 07:22 AM
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Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
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Maiden and mods

Hi everyone, had a successful maiden of the Phoenix 2000. Conditions very calm, happy with flight.
The set up stock,but installed Castle Creations 10A bec, as insurance. Two Hitec HS65HB servos on flaps.
1800 3c 2000, Tx Hitec Aurora 9 ,Optima 6 ch Rx. program set for crow and differential on ailerons.
The esc installed 4 " from fire wall on fuse side with velcro.Bec 4" from fire wall other side fuse.
Battery tray moved aft approc.1".
Mods, cooling slots elongatted to within 1/4" of fire wall, with Hobby-Lobby air scoops.
Canopy, 2 triangular cut outs top of canopy and just forward of wing leading edge.
Reverse air scoops on these exhaust vents.
This set up did not provide sufficient cooling for motor but battery,esc and bec ok.
"Rule of thumb," re exhaust vents , should be double size of the inlets and larger exhaust vents if no smooth flow due obstructions.
To improve motor cooling removed nose of spinner so that spinner opening was 3/4".
The spinner back plate has 4 mould circles these make your hole drill guide also 2 additional holes the back of blade attatch.point. I drilled 4 holes in the fire wall to line up with the 4 back plate of the spinner.
This made a really big improvement on motor cooling.
Hint use a belt sander if possible to trim nose of spinner.
Note hobby- Lobby have a nice turbo spinner 30 m Dia. but no 3 m.shaft , they have a 2.4m. shaft collet which could be drilled out.( may be).
Rudder hinge fitted to bottom of rudder to remove slop.
Wing tips underside glassed with 1/2 oz. cloth.
Also wing trailing edge at root , bolt attatch point, glassed for reinforcement.
Wing underside 6" wide red stripes also paint underside stab.
Auw 42 ozs. 1200gs.
Wing loading11ozs sq. ft.
Wing area 528 sq. ins. (calculated).
To sum up ,this ARF is value for money with a few simple mods




in back of blade
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 02:19 AM
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Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
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Turbo Spinners

Re previous post, www.hobby-lobby.com have a range of turbo spinners.
The phoenix 2000 spinner 40mm diam, 3mm collet Hobby lobby do not stock this size.
It mat be possible to use a 40mm diam, spinner with a 3mm. collett from the 30 mm. diam. spinner, check web site for varies sizes.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 05:51 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Hey guys...
Something I've seen on 1:1 gliders & more'n one RC model too, which I think adds 1000% to viewing appeal, is smoke generators on the wingtips.
I've been kinda 'secretly' questing for a smoke system for the Phoenix (& others) that won't burn off either the wingtips or my wallet. *LOL* The longer the smoke lasts, the better of course, but absolutely 1 minute minumum with 5+ much more desirable. I've found 'smoke bombs' that'll go a couple minutes, but not locally & pretty darn expensive.

Needing a way to mount whatever's used, of course, & then there's the ignition.
More to it than that but I'll clip it there.....anybody got any starting suggestions?

Meanwhile I think the classic gull-wing Habicht with that 'sunburst' pattern atop is THE cat's meow! I fully intend to own & fly one of these beauties some day. Meanwhile, enjoy this smoke show whilst you're thinking......it's pure beauty to this ol' boy! Who wouldn't want to be able to fly their Phoenix like this!?!?! :
Habicht glider acrobatic (2 min 8 sec)
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 07:37 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
4,285 Posts
I won't be flying my Phoenix 2000 as it won't rise from the ashes as did the mythical bird. Those of you of a nervous disposition should not look at the pictures but you should read the link to what happened
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=21

Andy
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 08:14 AM
Heli's and gliders, what else?
BarnOwl's Avatar
Nederland, GE, Slijk-Ewijk
Joined Apr 2006
753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlessagain View Post
I won't be flying my Phoenix 2000 as it won't rise from the ashes as did the mythical bird. Those of you of a nervous disposition should not look at the pictures but you should read the link to what happened
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=21

Andy
Good heavens! I hope you have an insurance for that disaster.......Very good of you to post this, makes me even more careful with lipo's. As you said, you only left them for 20 minutes, I do that a lot and even longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headlessagain View Post
See the fire was raging in between the gas main/meter on one side and the incoming mains electric supply on the other. Got it out by the time Fireman Sam arrived who were not happy I was in there. However, I reckon if I hadn't, both my house and my neighbours would have been taken out in a gas explosion. The gas pipe is meant to be protected by foam pumped between it and the outer metal tube but the dumb a** contractor who changed the meter a few years ago skipped that part.
That would have been a real disaster. You where very lucky to prevent that.
It makes me think........we are always taking care of lipo's but what can we do to prevent this? I'll just make sure I NEVER charge them unattended anymore!

I surely hope this is not the end of your hobby.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:38 PM
Addicted to lift
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United States, FL, Miami
Joined Jul 2010
513 Posts
WOW!
Like most of us, I too leave charging LiPo's unattended and assumed 1c charging would never cause me the issues you had.

Any idea what might have caused this seemingly good LiPo to do that while only charging at 1C rating?
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 04:16 PM
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My heart goes out to you, headlessagain. No injuries is the most important part but property loss is traumatic enough.

I have to admit I've gotten a little lax while charging because nothing has burst into flames yet but that will change. I have a charging bag but find it of limited value because most lipo charge leads are so short. Actually placing the charger in the bag with the battery just seems like I'm adding heat where I don't want it. So? I found another way.

I had an old electric frying pan that gave out just about the time that I started using lipos and I use it as a charging station. There's plenty of room for the charger and it has a fairly tight cover that should contain any fire. I don't think lipos burn hot enough to melt through 3mm of stainless steel but I'll return to setting it on concrete anyway.

Sorry for you loss, again, but thanks for sharing.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 04:49 PM
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Spinners

Esprit models has a pretty good assortment.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:36 PM
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Joined Feb 2008
137 Posts
It was a good day for flying. It was only the second time I got to take the P2K out so I went early when the air was dead so I could trim it out and practice the spot landings. I also maidened an HK Minimoa but I'll save that for the proper forum.

I lost track of the number of flights I had. Launch to altitude and glide back down to a landing. I'm not going to say I got good at puting where I want it but at least I don't have to go get my water bottle for the walk anymore. The thermals started building around 10 so I had a few 20 min flights. About 11 I could have kept it up as long as I wanted but it was time to go home. Very nice once you get it trimmed out.

I don't have the flaps hooked up. I use mixes to either set a small amount of flap with the flap toggle (DX6i) or a lot of aileron reflex with the gear toggle. The aileron reflex will really kill the lift for controlled landings. The down side is I don't have any aileron control in that configuration. It seems OK though because it flys pretty flat with the ailerons in high reflex and rudder gives me all
the control I need.
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