HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Mar 08, 2012, 09:05 AM
Registered User
Joined Feb 2012
2 Posts
Reporting back after maiden - this thing flies like a CHAMP. I balanced it right on the CG, centered all the control surfaces, and all-stock from EconomyRc she climbed out straight and true about 40-50deg w/ about 2/3 throttle, maybe less. probably 15-20 seconds of climb I had her up high enough to soar and hands of the controller, 3 clicks down elevator, and I had a perfect glidepath. NICE. The flaps are GREAT for landing, and I love that they came factory installed. They slow the plane down so much I actually had to come in to land with a bit of throttle, cut it at the last second and she just dropped at my feet.

I cant wait to get out again!

ALSO - I had the darndest time finding any info on the stock esc programming options. I emailed support at economyrc, and Andrew got right back to me. He did some communicating with his chinese supplier, and got an instruction sheet for how to program the esc for me! Nice service - he even translated it from "Engrish" to actual, understandable english and sent me a pdf. Here is the instructions, again, courtesy Andrew at economy rc: (note, I also edited them a little as I copied them over from the pdf since the PDF had a chart/different formatting not replicable in the forum post)

Stock Speed Controller Programming Instructions:

1. Connect your motor and receiver to the ESC, but do not connect the battery yet.
2. Turn on your transmitter and move the throttle to the full up position.
3. Connect your battery and you will hear a starting beep tone. After 3 seconds, the ESC will start beeping a sequence as the following chart shows below.
4.To make a selection, move the throttle stick down between (ie; during the pause of) the beep series of the option you want to change.
5.Once you have made the change you will hear a confirmation sound from the ESC.
6. Each time you make a selection, the ESC exits programming mode and is ready to use.
7. If you want to change another option, you need to start again from step 1.



Beeping
(.5 sec pause in between)

Option 1:
beep (pause) beep

Selects LiPo Battery Type. ESC will attempt to identify the number of cells and set LiPo protection to automatically cut-off voltage at 3V per cell. (option 2 will be disabled automatically)

Option 2:
beep-beep (pause) beep-beep

Selects NiMh Battery Type. ESC will select NiMH protection mode cut-off voltage at 60% of starting voltage (option 1 will be disabled automatically)

Option 3:
beep-beep-beep (pause) beep-beep-beep

Brake On/Off


KEEP IN MIND: These instructions will only work if your esc is the same as the one that is being sold through economy rc. You will hear the starting tone, then just the 3 series of beeps. Some of the Phoenix 2000's, especially earlier ones and ones from HK seem like they have a different ESC - There is a youtube video of a guy programming the brake on his phoenix 2000 that I found and his esc made completely different sounds - if your esc doesnt make these series of beeps, then these instructions will probably not apply.
vtradiocontrol is offline Find More Posts by vtradiocontrol
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Mar 08, 2012, 09:55 AM
Registered User
France
Joined Sep 2011
101 Posts
HK's phoenix version esc seems close of turnigy esc, I wonder if turnigy programing cards would work on?
traumkumy is offline Find More Posts by traumkumy
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2012, 12:24 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
5,392 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by planekrazy View Post
There's a fine line between hero and zero
Not responsive to this post in particular but just grabbed it to tack onto -- only to say I haven't forgot about the 'lost glider emergency' topic; I've just been crazy-busy with other things, haven't even read all the responses yet....& will touch base later.
~S*H
StarHopper44 is offline Find More Posts by StarHopper44
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2012, 02:24 PM
Addicted to lift
eosglider's Avatar
United States, FL, Miami
Joined Jul 2010
512 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtradiocontrol View Post
Reporting back after maiden - this thing flies like a CHAMP. I balanced it right on the CG, centered all the control surfaces, and all-stock from EconomyRc she climbed out straight and true about 40-50deg w/ about 2/3 throttle, maybe less. probably 15-20 seconds of climb I had her up high enough to soar and hands of the controller, 3 clicks down elevator, and I had a perfect glidepath. NICE. The flaps are GREAT for landing, and I love that they came factory installed. They slow the plane down so much I actually had to come in to land with a bit of throttle, cut it at the last second and she just dropped at my feet.

I cant wait to get out again!

ALSO - I had the darndest time finding any info on the stock esc programming options. I emailed support at economyrc, and Andrew got right back to me. He did some communicating with his chinese supplier, and got an instruction sheet for how to program the esc for me! Nice service - he even translated it from "Engrish" to actual, understandable english and sent me a pdf. Here is the instructions, again, courtesy Andrew at economy rc: (note, I also edited them a little as I copied them over from the pdf since the PDF had a chart/different formatting not replicable in the forum post)

Stock Speed Controller Programming Instructions:

1. Connect your motor and receiver to the ESC, but do not connect the battery yet.
2. Turn on your transmitter and move the throttle to the full up position.
3. Connect your battery and you will hear a starting beep tone. After 3 seconds, the ESC will start beeping a sequence as the following chart shows below.
4.To make a selection, move the throttle stick down between (ie; during the pause of) the beep series of the option you want to change.
5.Once you have made the change you will hear a confirmation sound from the ESC.
6. Each time you make a selection, the ESC exits programming mode and is ready to use.
7. If you want to change another option, you need to start again from step 1.



Beeping
(.5 sec pause in between)

Option 1:
beep (pause) beep

Selects LiPo Battery Type. ESC will attempt to identify the number of cells and set LiPo protection to automatically cut-off voltage at 3V per cell. (option 2 will be disabled automatically)

Option 2:
beep-beep (pause) beep-beep

Selects NiMh Battery Type. ESC will select NiMH protection mode cut-off voltage at 60% of starting voltage (option 1 will be disabled automatically)

Option 3:
beep-beep-beep (pause) beep-beep-beep

Brake On/Off


KEEP IN MIND: These instructions will only work if your esc is the same as the one that is being sold through economy rc. You will hear the starting tone, then just the 3 series of beeps. Some of the Phoenix 2000's, especially earlier ones and ones from HK seem like they have a different ESC - There is a youtube video of a guy programming the brake on his phoenix 2000 that I found and his esc made completely different sounds - if your esc doesnt make these series of beeps, then these instructions will probably not apply.


This is AWESOME!

Now I finally know what the other 2 options do (after much fiddling a few months back I figured out the 3 beep option was for brake).

Thank you to Andrew for EconomyRC and to you for posting!!!!

Info like this should be on a sticky. Can anyone get the OP to create one with stuff like this?
eosglider is offline Find More Posts by eosglider
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2012, 09:14 PM
Registered User
planekrazy's Avatar
Redwood City, CA USA
Joined Mar 2002
495 Posts
vtradiocontrol, that is great information, Thank you very much for sharing it with us here.

StarHopper44, we understand that even though it should not, life does sometimes get in the way of RC fun, it happens to us all and we don't like it one bit either

traumkumy, thanks for the info on her limits at the slope and glad to hear everything was alright after the minor incident. I like your friend's advice about the nylon bolts, does he have a source for them? I will try a local bolts&fastener warehouse to see if they have a nylon version to replace the long stock wing bolts (35mm M3). If they have them, I will first test how easily they thread in and out of the stock blind nuts with wings attached to the fuse. The last thing I would want to happen is for the head of any nylon bolt to weaken over time and accidentally shear off while screwing on or off the wing. I don't mean the bolt head stripping due to over tightening, I mean where the head meets the bolt can snap off if there is enough pressure/load exerted to fatigue the joint over time. This happened to me with a DLG because there was some friction every time I screwed the nylon wing bolts in and out. Maybe I should have tried to address the alignment issue though higher fit precision or lubed the threads or something but I didn't and just applied the necessary pressure to screw the nylon bolts on and off. Then one day was putting her together at the field to go play in the fluffy thermals, and snap, as I was screwing on the wing one of the nylon bolt heads broke, there was no flying for me that day
planekrazy is offline Find More Posts by planekrazy
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 09, 2012, 10:58 AM
Registered User
France
Joined Sep 2011
101 Posts
Planekrazy: I don't know where to source the nylon bolts, I suppose HK have some. I already have some in M6 I will try to use them. But I don't kown if M3 nylon bolt exists in this lengt.

For the head blot snap, as we are screwing a foam piece, I think there will be less torque applyed to the bolt or the foam will start to compress.

(I flew my self built depron jet this morning and I made another leek )), fuselage need to be rebuilt)
traumkumy is offline Find More Posts by traumkumy
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 09, 2012, 12:43 PM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
4,150 Posts
I found these M3 x 35mm ones on Ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3mm-x-35-N...#ht_600wt_1185
Andy
headlessagain is offline Find More Posts by headlessagain
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 10, 2012, 11:54 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
5,392 Posts
Just let me squeeze in a quickie here (jeez, I used to say that a lot on my lunch hour! *LMBO*) to keep the 'lost plane' line open.

FIRST thing for sure, chop the throttle. No brainer.
Refinding - best solution, also kinda no-brainer. Just wanna say the "don't look dead center" thing doesn't really apply here. Especially since we're looking FOR something we're not sure exactly where it is....that's a complete uncontrollable - it's LOST at the moment! Being a long-time astronomer, I'm intensely intimate with 'averted vision'. It's used to better see objects we know are there - in the eyepiece....but you see it better if you 'look away', actually. For that matter, if you're 'right eyed' (dominant eye), look at 1 o'clock; if left-dominant, look at 11 o'clock to the object. See? (figuratively & literally *LOL*) -- that's how well I know about it.

Anyway, best 'eye action' is to start spiraling your vision around where you lost or think you lost it. But what can you do to increase chances of seeing it under those circumstances? Two things - motion, & contrast.

Of course it's moving..(eye detects motion almost better'n anything!)..but we want to confine it as much as possible. Don't keep it moving off from where you lost it. MY thought, and what I want to see debated, is to start looping it. Zero throttle, & just hold the elevator stick back, while your eyes search. Think of what your plane does under this circumstance - afa 'flying off' and what it'll do, long-term. My question, will this action result in less theoretical crash damage than a flat-spin, which you CANNOT SEE, remember, in order to control....assuming you can get it into a flat spin in the first place! Methinks if you can't see the FS to control it, the plane is more likely to 'dive off' to one side & hit the ground pretty hard. (Hence my asking if looping would end in less damage potential.) Remember, all looping will take - presuming your plane is trimmed out properly - is just hold the elevator stick back.

Go!

Oops, but first....yes....the contrast thing. If sight is lost, would perhaps very first thing to do after chopping throttle be to just turn sticks loose & give 'er a few seconds to let it go into (hopefully) flat glide mode? If you agree that'd be good, I'd suggest possibly first following action would be a slight bank away from the direction it was last seen traveling, in hopes of picking up contrasting shadow under the near wing. This worked for me when I lost mine 'that' time. Note this would be in contrast to immediately pulling elevator back & going into loops....hence my asking, as to what would be best.

Now go!
StarHopper44 is offline Find More Posts by StarHopper44
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 10, 2012, 03:40 PM
Row 0, Seat A
G550Ted's Avatar
Savannah, GA
Joined Jan 2008
2,711 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
- Snip - Anyway, best 'eye action' is to start spiraling your vision around where you lost or think you lost it. But what can you do to increase chances of seeing it under those circumstances? Two things - motion, & contrast.

Of course it's moving..(eye detects motion almost better'n anything!)..but we want to confine it as much as possible. Don't keep it moving off from where you lost it. MY thought, and what I want to see debated, is to start looping it. Zero throttle, & just hold the elevator stick back, while your eyes search. Think of what your plane does under this circumstance - afa 'flying off' and what it'll do, long-term. My question, will this action result in less theoretical crash damage than a flat-spin, which you CANNOT SEE, remember, in order to control....assuming you can get it into a flat spin in the first place! Methinks if you can't see the FS to control it, the plane is more likely to 'dive off' to one side & hit the ground pretty hard. (Hence my asking if looping would end in less damage potential.) Remember, all looping will take - presuming your plane is trimmed out properly - is just hold the elevator stick back.

Go!

Oops, but first....yes....the contrast thing. If sight is lost, would perhaps very first thing to do after chopping throttle be to just turn sticks loose & give 'er a few seconds to let it go into (hopefully) flat glide mode? If you agree that'd be good, I'd suggest possibly first following action would be a slight bank away from the direction it was last seen traveling, in hopes of picking up contrasting shadow under the near wing. This worked for me when I lost mine 'that' time. Note this would be in contrast to immediately pulling elevator back & going into loops....hence my asking, as to what would be best.

Now go!
You are correct in stating that motion is the most easily detected aspect of visual acquisition. Your recommendation to start "spiraling your vision" would be the wrong thing to do, however, as relative motion would then not be recognized and perhaps more importantly, distant focus is lost during that process. Without a specific target the eye quickly focuses to a close range, about 20 ft IIRC, but exactly how far is not important. Two things are important. First is to continue to look in the general direction of where you lost contact and if you shift your vision to another point only change by about 20 degrees. Remember that one 'clock code', say from 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock is 30 deg. Very important to then pause for several seconds without further shifting your gaze. Second is at the same time try to find something distant to focus on like a cloud, passing airplane, far away terrain, etc. This is the proven way to see a small, distant object.

As for continuous looping, I don't think that a good idea. You are not assured that the model is in level flight after a few seconds following lost sight. A lot of up elevator might result in a high g spiral and structural failure. If not, and visual contact was reestablished, it may be impossible to determine orientation and a 50-50 chance of attempting a recovery. Also, with the throttle OFF how many times do you expect it to loop for ya?

The suggestion to make a turn may help or may result in a very low aspect, ie; either nose on or tail on thus making it harder to reacquire.

By placing it in an intentional spin you considerably limit the search area. It will no longer be traveling much left or right and will not be climbing. The changing aspect will enhance regaining contact and you know without a doubt the control inputs to recover. If the spin mode of your plane is more like a spiral, however, that may not be the best idea. Test fly to see.

Another alternative may be something like you propose. Throttle OFF then slowly increase elevator to and hold it full up with no rudder or aileron input. If a flight test shows that this will result in a phugoid (a slow porpoise) and a relatively level roll attitude then this may result in a slower overall descent. The changing aspect would again help in reacquisition with a known recovery.

Instead of guessing, let's go test fly a simulated lost sight with these and other rescue techniques to see what works most reliably in regaining sight, minimizing fly-away distance and reducing damage if flown to impact (estimated of course!).

I haven't started the build on mine yet, so it's 'ball in your court' SH.

Ted
G550Ted is offline Find More Posts by G550Ted
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 10, 2012, 04:21 PM
I ♥ OpenTX
H2SO4's Avatar
Australia, New South Wales, Sydney
Joined Jan 2011
2,692 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Refinding - best solution, also kinda no-brainer. Just wanna say the "don't look dead center" thing doesn't really apply here. Especially since we're looking FOR something we're not sure exactly where it is....that's a complete uncontrollable - it's LOST at the moment! Being a long-time astronomer, I'm intensely intimate with 'averted vision'. It's used to better see objects we know are there - in the eyepiece....but you see it better if you 'look away', actually. For that matter, if you're 'right eyed' (dominant eye), look at 1 o'clock; if left-dominant, look at 11 o'clock to the object. See? (figuratively & literally *LOL*) -- that's how well I know about it.
I am most probably wrong, but I thought that "eyepiece" effect is caused by a preponderance of cone-type sensors in the natural centre of the retina, to allow for maxium acuity and colour perception when "scanning the savanna". Rods are better at detecting the presence or absence of light, which makes them the primary sensor on dark nights, and their relative absence from the retina centre is the reason why darker celestial objects may disappear if one looks directly at them.

Assuming that acuity is more important in this instance than absolute light sensitivity, I'd guess that looking dead-straight at the target area is in fact the best approach. It causes the eye to bring to bear its "highest resolution" specialised part.
H2SO4 is offline Find More Posts by H2SO4
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 10, 2012, 10:33 PM
Registered User
Vancouver
Joined Sep 2003
71 Posts
Whereas the center of vision may resolve fine details for small or distant objects, motion is best detected away from the center of vision. X,Y, and W cells in the periphery of vision provide greater perception of moving objects.
Digiflier is offline Find More Posts by Digiflier
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 11, 2012, 12:01 AM
Seeker of Thermals
botulism's Avatar
United States, MT, Kalispell
Joined Aug 2004
660 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiflier View Post
Whereas the center of vision may resolve fine details for small or distant objects, motion is best detected away from the center of vision. X,Y, and W cells in the periphery of vision provide greater perception of moving objects.
While this may be true for cats, I don't think the XYW system has been used to describe the human retina.

I would love to be proven wrong, so cite if you're able.

--
Greg
botulism is offline Find More Posts by botulism
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 11, 2012, 03:31 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
4,150 Posts
We all know that if the sun strikes a very distant car mirror or even windscreen it will twinkle brightly.
To increase the chances of picking locating your model you could add some patches of silver reflective trim. My fb recently gave me a roll of aluminium tape
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-...7#ht_754wt_905 but I've not yet found a use for it.
I've also used mirror self adhesive film for the cabin windows on my BluCub
Just a thought
Andy
headlessagain is offline Find More Posts by headlessagain
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 11, 2012, 06:25 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
5,392 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
I am most probably wrong, but I thought that "eyepiece" effect is caused by a preponderance of cone-type sensors in the natural centre of the retina, to allow for maxium acuity and colour perception when "scanning the savanna". Rods are better at detecting the presence or absence of light, which makes them the primary sensor on dark nights, and their relative absence from the retina centre is the reason why darker celestial objects may disappear if one looks directly at them.

Assuming that acuity is more important in this instance than absolute light sensitivity, I'd guess that looking dead-straight at the target area is in fact the best approach. It causes the eye to bring to bear its "highest resolution" specialised part.
The 'averted vision' comes into play because there's an actual blind spot in your retina where all the receptor nerves exit the eyeball -- ie no rods or cones. You can find it yourself by holding a pencil erect at arm's length directly in front of one open (other closed) eye. Lock vision onto the wall behind the erasor & slowly move it off to the side (to right for right eye, etc), while staying aware (it takes some 'thinking'*) of the erasor. A few degrees away the erasor will disappear! Repeat for the left eye - move left - same thing.

*The 'thinking' bit -- effective use of 'real' averted vision takes considerable effort of thought to learn. It's almost a 'mind trick' - one of those 'Zennish' things. IF you learn it - correctly - it can be used to not just "see" something, as in detecting its presence, but to even study the details of it to the point of being able to make sketches of it.

Anyway, the mechanism & time involved to utilize averted vision renders it unuseful for the purpose we're discussing here. Now, if your P2K makes it into outer space & is just slowly drifting along, on the other hand.....
StarHopper44 is offline Find More Posts by StarHopper44
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 11, 2012, 07:02 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
5,392 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by G550Ted View Post
You are correct in stating that motion is the most easily detected aspect of visual acquisition. Your recommendation to start "spiraling your vision" would be the wrong thing to do, however, as relative motion would then not be recognized and perhaps more importantly, distant focus is lost during that process. ...
Yo, Tedro!
I think we might be thinking more alike than is apparent, just using different wording to express a really only slightly divergent view.
'Spiraling' was prolly a poor choice of words....trying to describe something wherein you 'search' along the expected flight path - 'expected' from everything you knew & was going on when you lost sight -- 'projected'(?). Too fine to debate for my mornin'-muddled-no-coffee-yet mind rat now! *LOL* But I think we most all basically know what you're describing there. Thing is, whatever we're advised trust me instinct is gonna take over in these panic-moments, & we're gonna do whatever that instinct tells us. That's the reality of it, no?

What I hope to do is express some hypotheses, hear the most viable-sounding strategy, & force that (after trial) to become what I instinctively do! In the absence of experience, should I say. Part of the 'Learning To Fly' process?

Quote:
As for continuous looping, I don't think that a good idea. ...
Also, with the throttle OFF how many times do you expect it to loop for ya? ...
Test fly to see.
YES - by ALL means, and we're on exactly the same track here, is to EXPERIMENT....while you can -- ie you know where it is! And that's exactly what I intend to do (more of) as soon as I've got mine airworthy again (afa ball in my court) & have finished my EagleTree testing. In fact, am making it a new priority & will prolly fly in format of daily sessions of making 2-3-4 data collection runs first, & end the day "wringing 'er out".

And fwiw, my suggestions for looping came from what I saw when I tried that just to see what'd happen! (My earlier comment about 'wasting the altitude thru silly stunting' that time I broke 1K-feet?) IIRC, later it looped 4 times with power off, I'd estimate from around 4-500? ft, before it went into 'U' stalls - several of them in succeedingly smaller 'U's - but at the end I just powered up & climbed back to altitude. These O's & U's were pretty darn visible, plus pretty much 'localized' so.....that got me t'thinkin'..... Much of the premise has to do with the altitude it was at when you lost it! Hence, probability high of having (truly, 'needing') a Plan B for other circumstances!

Jeez this is a place where having a group in face-2-face conversation would be just so immensely better than this slow-ass texting exchange!!! I'm already tired....not to mention prolly having bored you all to tears!

We need a convention!
StarHopper44 is offline Find More Posts by StarHopper44
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale HK Phoenix 2000 glider blk822 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 4 Aug 23, 2011 07:21 PM
Discussion Still having electric problems with my hobbyking Phoenix 2000, Crashvideo kyrkbymannen Electric Sailplanes 3 Jul 09, 2011 07:34 PM
Discussion Ohhh noo, 2nd flight on the HobbyKing Phoenix 2000 KillerCut Electric Sailplanes 14 Jun 06, 2011 09:57 AM
Discussion hobby king Phoenix 2000 EPO Composite R/C Glider doomracing Electric Sailplanes 3 May 31, 2011 10:09 PM