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Old Apr 18, 2011, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Man Mike View Post
The Simon and AndrKolom videos are most interesting to compare. But you have to download the files from vimeo since playing via the vimeo website degrades the video quality and framerate.

First, congrats to both of you on the artistic side. And Simon, it is impressive how far you have come on the music selection side

The thing that stands out is the Jello effect in Simon's video. I know that many like the small size and high definition of the GoPro cameras but that jello effect is a big distraction for me and it seems to be prevelent in almost all the copter GoPro videos. You see none of that with the Canon 5D MkII, but it sure is a big camera to carry.

The interesting thing is that both cameras have CMOS based sensors which are generally expected to show the jello effect because of the rolling shutters typically used. For some reason the Canon 5D shows almost no jello. It makes you wonder if there is that much difference in cameras or if it the difference is in vibration of the platform.

I've noticed that there is some movement in the industry to address the jello effect using global shutters with the CMOS based sensors. Hopefully we will eventually be able to buy a lightweight HD video camera more suited for copter flying.

OMM
I think much of it comes down to weight. A 5d and a lens have a significant mass, which will adsorb a lot of both vibration and shake. The Go Pro, at 96 grams without the waterproof housing, well :P

That said, I don't dare fly with such an expensive camera.
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wizprod View Post
I think much of it comes down to weight. A 5d and a lens have a significant mass, which will adsorb a lot of both vibration and shake. The Go Pro, at 96 grams without the waterproof housing, well :P

That said, I don't dare fly with such an expensive camera.
Maybe someone could try weighting their GoPro to the equivalent mass of the 5d and see if that is the bulk of the difference. Mass and inertia matching would be telling. The jello issue is a rotational issue of the camera swivelling. Adding a small barbell would do far more than the equivalent lumped mass.
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BJM-Maxx View Post
Maybe someone could try weighting their GoPro to the equivalent mass of the 5d and see if that is the bulk of the difference. Mass and inertia matching would be telling. The jello issue is a rotational issue of the camera swivelling. Adding a small barbell would do far more than the equivalent lumped mass.
I've seen pictures of cam mounts where the main battery had be fixed to the camera-"tray". Good idea, but don't like the idea of a very long main cable
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 03:01 PM
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Navarre, FL
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That's pretty much what I'm testing now, for eventual sale (if it works).

It's a bit hard to visualize, but the battery tray, gear legs, and camera mount are all resting on very soft dampers when in flight. The extra mass definitely helps.

When not in flight, the weight of the copter rests on the top of the gear legs, so it doesn't put too much strain on the dampers.

The tilt/roll is a very basic ServoCity unit, and subject to all the issues we know and love from direct drive. I've got a bag of gears to play with as well, but no time to finish it all right now.

Cheers,
Rusty
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 13brv3 View Post
That's pretty much what I'm testing now, for eventual sale (if it works).

It's a bit hard to visualize, but the battery tray, gear legs, and camera mount are all resting on very soft dampers when in flight. The extra mass definitely helps.

When not in flight, the weight of the copter rests on the top of the gear legs, so it doesn't put too much strain on the dampers.

The tilt/roll is a very basic ServoCity unit, and subject to all the issues we know and love from direct drive. I've got a bag of gears to play with as well, but no time to finish it all right now.

Cheers,
Rusty
Meant on as the same plate as camera is mounted to
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wizprod View Post
Meant on as the same plate as camera is mounted to
Me too

The battery tray, gear legs, and camera mount are all one rigid assembly that float together on the dampers.

Rusty
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 13brv3 View Post
Me too

The battery tray, gear legs, and camera mount are all one rigid assembly that float together on the dampers.

Rusty
If you meant like on your picture, then no, that's not what I meant

This is what I meant (from the MK forum):
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 04:13 PM
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Ironbridge (UK)
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Originally Posted by wizprod View Post
If you meant like on your picture, then no, that's not what I meant

This is what I meant (from the MK forum):
hmmm

pendulum-tastic, would that system induce swinging when descending etc
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dleroi View Post
Nick,

What range do you get using the BT modules?

- Don
It works at least at distances of 200m, I haven't specifically tested it for range though. Keep in mind that the antenna is directional, so just any position will not give you an optimum range. I've noticed some connectivity issues at distances greater than 60-70 meters, if the BT module is not parallel to the ground.

Andrey and Simon, both very nice videos, thanks for sharing.

In reply to OMM's post, I too have been fighting the dreaded jello effect in GoPro videos. I think I might be on the right track to eliminate it by suspending the camera mount on 8 silicone tubes. I already have some test footage that looks promising. However, there is some unwanted swing effect now during descent and aggressive flying. This is because the rig is no longer firmly attached to the MK and allows for some movement. The key I think is to find the right length for the suspension tubes. Too short - no swing, but jello, too long - some swing, but no jello.

What also creates jello effect is the work of the tilt and roll servos (I am using MK GoPro mount with direct-drive servos). I haven't found a good way to deal with this yet. Adding a small resin disks (cut from eraser) on each axis to create some friction helps a bit. How are you guys dealing with this issue?

Cheers,
Nick
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 05:00 PM
Mikrokopter Australia ;-)
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Australia
Joined Apr 2008
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Yeah it bugs me, the weather didn't help matters.
The harder you fly the worse the jello ! Will try another mount next time.
Simon
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 05:20 PM
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Radzionkow, Poland
Joined Sep 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonjardine View Post
Yeah it bugs me, the weather didn't help matters.
The harder you fly the worse the jello ! Will try another mount next time.
Simon

Better try different props...

The movie before was made with gws hd8040. This one with Gaui 8", i wont use them anymore.

Kalwaria w Piekarach Śląskich (1 min 25 sec)
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 05:20 PM
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Ironbridge (UK)
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have you tried using the rolling shutter removal bit in deshaker? In the instructions is says what to set it at for the gopro in a couple of resolutions. I wondered if it worked
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 06:36 PM
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Belgrade, Serbia
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Nothing fancy, just slow and straight flying through the forest

forest fly (1 min 8 sec)
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 06:52 PM
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Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
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LOOKS familiar Rusty I have done the exact thing. I have been putting the camera with the battery mass... it helps alot. I even used the same servo city things too... work ok but too much play from what I found.

Steve
ps adding mass to the makes a huge difference in jello and or vibrations if you use a telescoping lens on your fixed camera


Quote:
Originally Posted by 13brv3 View Post
That's pretty much what I'm testing now, for eventual sale (if it works).

It's a bit hard to visualize, but the battery tray, gear legs, and camera mount are all resting on very soft dampers when in flight. The extra mass definitely helps.

When not in flight, the weight of the copter rests on the top of the gear legs, so it doesn't put too much strain on the dampers.

The tilt/roll is a very basic ServoCity unit, and subject to all the issues we know and love from direct drive. I've got a bag of gears to play with as well, but no time to finish it all right now.

Cheers,
Rusty
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 07:06 PM
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Philippines
Joined Dec 2010
542 Posts
Jello festival on mine. I'm also in the process of trying to eliminate or minimize Jello Effect on my vids. I think that there's no commercially available mount out there that wouldn't need a considerable amount of tweaking to get good videos. This vid is from my stock hexa2 with hi-sight mount.

AERIAL VIDEO "THE FORT" (2 min 31 sec)
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