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Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:08 PM
Extreme CNC Alloy EDF
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Australia
Joined Mar 2006
11,711 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by efflux RC View Post
We also have the HET 1W-40 (3300kv).
I haven't tested it yet either, but it's gonna pull higher amps. I'd probably run it with a Wemotec minfan Pro EDF, or Wemo rotor in an alloy housing.
No it doesnt, the 1W40 with Minifan PRO rotor pulls 96A at 21.45 volts and puts out 2.8kg thrust at 64K rpm, thats 20 amps lower than the Velocity motor pulls, big difference when dealing with small airframes that have limits to their battery carrying capacity.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:31 PM
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Heres a question. Will a 1000 watt 20oz plane fly the same as a 2000 watt 40oz plane?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:11 PM
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United States, CA, Santa Clarita
Joined Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingeragents View Post
Efflux, do you have that velocity motor? Also how many amps will that setup run
Yes. Here's the data from my test.
Original post (#4028) is here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...96945&page=269



5s TEST

ambient temp: 72*F
motor winding temp after test (no cool down period): 108*F

Amps: 101.7
Watts: 1815
RPMs: 59523
Thrust: 2.17kg (4lb, 12.5oz)....Skyworld cast inlet ring - no thrust tube
.................................................. .........................




6s TEST


ambient temp: 72*F
motor winding temp after test (no cool down period): 114*F

Amps: 116.9
Watts: 2558
RPMs: 64655
Thrust: 2.81kg (6lb, 3.1oz)....Skyworld cast inlet ring - no thrust tube
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:28 PM
Extreme CNC Alloy EDF
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Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingeragents View Post
Heres a question. Will a 1000 watt 20oz plane fly the same as a 2000 watt 40oz plane?
All things being equal, as in the same airframe, no, the 40oz model will have a much higher wing loading, it wont be as sharp or manouverable in the air and will have to be flown faster. Top speed will increase a bit and it will have a higher stall speed hence you will have to bring it in hot.

With regards to 1000w vs 2000w, you have to understand that how many watts your setup consumes is not an indication of performance, nor is it good to consume more watts unless you know you are getting more thrust out the back.

Perfect example is the figures just posted for the velocity motor running a wemotec Minifan rotor, compare them to the HET 1W40 motor running the same rotor:
Velocity uses 2558 watts to produce 2.81kg of thrust.
1W40 uses 2060 watts to produce 2.8kg thrust.

You must understand that questions like "how many watts can it take" are pointless, as the whole idea of setting up a fan is to consume the least amount of watts for the most thrust/rpm. What you want to know is how much performance out the back of the fan you are getting for X number of watts consumed.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:23 AM
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United States, CO, Eagle
Joined Oct 2010
103 Posts
Tail Modding

Hey Guys,

I'm pullling the trigger on this plane tonight. I'm going to be running a 4s motor/battery setup in it. I see the tail strengthing mod back on a previous page, but is doesn't list the length/width of the piece of carbon fiber. Can anyone help me out with the width? I figure that the fiber that I buy will be more than enough in length, but the width is the question...
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:44 AM
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United States, CA, Santa Clarita
Joined Aug 2009
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Here are the HET specs for the 1W-40 motor.

I'm sure it's a great motor. I haven't run it yet myslf, and simply choose a different motor for the current project.
..............................................

HET 1W-40 Motor


6S power beast that generates 2400 watts and 3kgs thrust
For pylon /EDF jets up to 1600 grams
Suitable for HET EDF unit 6904 or WeMoTec 480 mini fan
  • Diameter : 28 mm
  • Length : 62 mm
  • Shaft Dia. : 4.0 mm
  • Weight : 180 grams
  • No load current(lo) : 5.2
  • Internal resistance : 6.2
  • KV : 3300
  • No. of poles : 6
  • Max Current : 140 A (6s)
  • Thrust : 1470g (4S) / 2300g (5S) / 3050g (6S)
  • Max efficiency : 87%
  • Power Nominal : 2400 Watts on 6 cells (6904 fan unit)
  • Advance timing : 18 Middle PWM: 16 Khz


http://www.effluxrc.com/HET-1W-40-Motor-HET1W40.htm
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnfghtr View Post
Hey Guys,

I'm pullling the trigger on this plane tonight. I'm going to be running a 4s motor/battery setup in it. I see the tail strengthing mod back on a previous page, but is doesn't list the length/width of the piece of carbon fiber. Can anyone help me out with the width? I figure that the fiber that I buy will be more than enough in length, but the width is the question...
Not sure on the carbon but the kit comes with a template for ply reinforcements
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:49 AM
You're killin' me Smalls
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United States, NJ, Hillsborough Township
Joined Sep 2011
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I won one of the velocity RC combos from the September All Things That Fly podcast, so I went and snagged the $30 kit from Hobbypeople to house it.

Thing is, given the choice of the 4s, 5s, or 6s versions I went with the 4s, not realizing that it's Out of Stock, so the airframe showed up last week and I don't know when the combo will arrive.

I'm not a huge speed junkie, I'm building skills to be able to keep this bird alive a while once I do get it put together, and I've got a Freewing Stinger to practice with as well in the meantime. I went 4s because I'm stepping up to 4s packs with this bird, most of my others top out at 3s 2200.

1- If I stick to the combo I chose I could use an economical ESC recommendation.
2- If the combo is going to stay OOS a while, what about running the 5s or 6s combo on 4s lipos? I see efflux ran the 5s version on both 5s and 6s, this would be a similar approach, and the other two combos are in stock, would then need an esc recommend for that as well.

I'll dig up the standard reinforcement stuff for the build soon, this will likely be a winter project to get ready for a spring launch.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Problem with running a 5s setup with a 4s battery is it will hurt performance. If your running a 2200 kv motor for example on 4s as opposed to 5s you lose about 10k rpm roughly. Ive been using dynam esc lately for my builds. Cheap and no problems thus far.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:51 PM
Life begins at transition
Australia, VIC, Sale
Joined May 2007
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You could run 2 of your 3s packs for 6s2200. That's what mine flies on (6s2650, but close).
It's heavy and fast, so maybe not what you're after.

If you run a 6s combo on 4s, you'll get about a third of the advertised power; 5s about 2/3rds. Depends on how much power you want.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 06:33 PM
You're killin' me Smalls
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United States, NJ, Hillsborough Township
Joined Sep 2011
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I'm sure it will be plenty fast for my thumbs almost no matter what I run it on for a while, I have significant work to do to smarten my thumbs before I try to run it wide open. Just balancing my battery inventory plans, my limited skillset, how soon things come into stock, and even the fact that the size of the ESC required is slightly less for the 6s than the 4s.

Will be getting some 3s 5000 and 4s 3600 packs for some 1400mm and 1500mm warbirds I acquired, either one would make the F16 run heavy and fast I guess.

Settled on this bird because it's got a reputation of being very stable and well behaved, able to slow down and land nicely but also can absolutely haul cheeks if tuned up. Of course I kicked that over a bit when I won the combo since those motors look to scream.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 07:40 PM
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United States, CO, Keystone
Joined Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnfghtr View Post
Hey Guys,

I'm pullling the trigger on this plane tonight. I'm going to be running a 4s motor/battery setup in it. I see the tail strengthing mod back on a previous page, but is doesn't list the length/width of the piece of carbon fiber. Can anyone help me out with the width? I figure that the fiber that I buy will be more than enough in length, but the width is the question...
I used 1/8" dia. CF rod from where the pylon bevels up at the rear 17" forward. Made the fuse really stiff. I also added the ply reinforcements on the pylons.

Just finished mine today and ready for its maiden. Came in at 2 lbs 13 ozs ready to fly. The 6S 3300 35C Zippy Compact Lipo weighs 18.5 oz alone! Balanced right at the front edge of the cheater holes.

The HET 6904 with the 2W-25 has some serious thrust! This is gonna be one serious adrenaline rush!!!
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 07:53 PM
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Joined Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_RC View Post
All things being equal, as in the same airframe, no, the 40oz model will have a much higher wing loading, it wont be as sharp or manouverable in the air and will have to be flown faster. Top speed will increase a bit and it will have a higher stall speed hence you will have to bring it in hot.

With regards to 1000w vs 2000w, you have to understand that how many watts your setup consumes is not an indication of performance, nor is it good to consume more watts unless you know you are getting more thrust out the back.

Perfect example is the figures just posted for the velocity motor running a wemotec Minifan rotor, compare them to the HET 1W40 motor running the same rotor:
Velocity uses 2558 watts to produce 2.81kg of thrust.
1W40 uses 2060 watts to produce 2.8kg thrust.

You must understand that questions like "how many watts can it take" are pointless, as the whole idea of setting up a fan is to consume the least amount of watts for the most thrust/rpm. What you want to know is how much performance out the back of the fan you are getting for X number of watts consumed.
this is the most useful saying, the best advice around.

Unfortunately, many take an easier path as they think a very same plane
with 2000 watts will be "BETTER", repeat "BETTER" than with 1000 watts or 1500 watts.

We can see the trend is everything is getting heavier; the battery is heavier, the fan + motor is heavier, the flying plane is getting heavier as time goes by :-( :-( .... Heavier = BETTER . Period.

I take that lighter plane :-)

IMO, we should look for things like ... ratio of Gram,thrust / gram, motor+fan


...
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 08:10 PM
hass-alfed and bass-ackwards
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United States, AZ, Chandler
Joined Jun 2008
5,306 Posts
I'm not really knowledgeable about fan set-ups, but I've very rarely heard people talking about efficiency in the jet forums. Most of it is in the micro EDF forum.

I'm all for "adding lightness" to any and all airframes, but to go fast, you need some juice. More juice = more weight. More weight requires reinforcements... etc, etc, etc.

And people like to fly jets because they're fast, right? At the least, my few slow jets I've had have been faster than the fastest Slow Stick, and I enjoy the change of pace having a few different types of models at the field.

I'm still stuck on what to put in my airframe. I've got batteries I could use for a 3S set-up, but 4S would require a bunch of new batteries, and that kind of defeats the point of buying a really cheap fuse.

I'd love to learn about what the most efficient EDF set-ups are, power to weight wise.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:52 PM
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Joined Jan 2011
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Heres what i dont fully get. You take an identical plane and fan and run one on 4s with just say 3300 kv. You run the other on 6s with say a 2200kv motor. I didnt do the math but lets just say the max rpm of both setups is 60k. rpm. Why does the 6s produce more watts/ thrust with total rpm being equal. Also how would that 2nd setup be faster?

Edit. Just did math and came out with 55k roughly for both. Now i know motor efficency and all that comes into play but doesnt make full sense to me, especially since the 6s setup would be probably at least a third heavier if not more
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