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Old Nov 10, 2010, 10:29 PM
If it flies, I will crash it
mxspode's Avatar
USA, CO, Westminster
Joined Jan 2008
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Man, you guys are killing me. I just get into one cool project and up pops another one.

Nice work Thanh. I was planning a small quad after I finished the KK Tri. Maybe not this small but something similar. I am curious, is there any reason that your setup would not work on a more conventionally sized quad? I was thinking of something in the 10-12" size range with 20mm cd-rom motors and 10amp ESC's. Are there limitations in your setup? It wouldn't seem like it but best to ask.

Rob...
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Old Nov 11, 2010, 01:18 AM
That tree again!!!!
thanhTran's Avatar
Germantown, MD, US
Joined Sep 2004
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Hi Rob
My set up should work on the regular quad's as well. Currently I'm also flying a 22" motor to motor quad with the same controller. It works well
Here are 2 videos of that bigger version (using Wii MP as gyros) running the same code and same controller.

MSP430 + WiiMP quadcopter flying (2 min 43 sec)

msp430 based quadcopter with wiiMPlus night flight (4 min 4 sec)


Thanks

-Thanh
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Old Nov 11, 2010, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thanhTran View Post
Hi Witespy

I agree that it's so hard or too expensive to get small CW props.

Yes, all 4 motors running same direction (CCW). For sure we loose some lift with tilting props, but that tilting is done the same way in tri-copter too. I've not done any comparison of the same quad with and without CW props to see how much flight time we loose. Maybe someone already has some numbers.

-Thanh
cool beans. Thanks for the info

One more question ?

Did you write the code yourself? are you willing to share that part?

It would be the only thing us non-programers can not tackel

thank you again for this thread, it is cool


edit.....duh.... I see the code now..

http://code.google.com/p/simple-flight-controller/

cool beasn
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Last edited by witespy; Nov 11, 2010 at 01:41 AM.
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Old Nov 11, 2010, 02:03 AM
That tree again!!!!
thanhTran's Avatar
Germantown, MD, US
Joined Sep 2004
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Thanks Witespy! Yeah I wrote the code, and the source code is there. I hope more people jumping in and create something much cooler.
I know there are many great projects available out there as well. I just started this because I wanted to know what it took to control a flying machine, and I wanted to learn the thinking process that someone has done before for their great flying platforms


-Thanh
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Old Nov 11, 2010, 12:53 PM
If it flies, I will crash it
mxspode's Avatar
USA, CO, Westminster
Joined Jan 2008
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Thanks Thanh, I will certainly be keeping an eye on this one. I planned on building a quad after I finished the KK Tri but I was leaning towards something with accelerometers for a stable platform for AP and possibly FPV use. My only other concern would be the regular reports of problematic Wii M+ parts. This certainly gives an advantage to your Gyro board which I would probably prefer anyway. I like building stuff.

It looks fun. Your setup has an obvious advantage in it's compact size for those that are building really small quads. Foot print counts.

Rob...
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Old Nov 11, 2010, 03:05 PM
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This is a fantastic project and very adaptable. Glad I waited to build my own from scratch. I would definitely like to see utilizing the RX feature and reducing the weight and size. While not efficient, it would be nice to have a brushed motor version as well.

What about using the InvenSense ITG-3200 triple axis gyro - it is $10 and would reduce the weight and size?

Mike
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Old Nov 11, 2010, 03:52 PM
That tree again!!!!
thanhTran's Avatar
Germantown, MD, US
Joined Sep 2004
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Hi Mike

I bought 2 Invensense ITG-3200 gyro chips and was afraid of its size. It's too small, but I will try that out some time. The ITG-3200 uses I2C so I might not be able to use the built-in wireless (which uses SPI to communicate with the host processor) of the 2500T board

Do you have the weight of the UFO#8 motors and props? What's the prop size? Is there a good source to buy them?

The 1-cell brushless speed controller from HK is pretty small, and if we make a tri-copter I think we can shed out some weights.

-Thanh
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Old Nov 11, 2010, 08:48 PM
If it flies, I will crash it
mxspode's Avatar
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Would a brushed motor version be any different?

Rob...
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Old Nov 11, 2010, 10:04 PM
That tree again!!!!
thanhTran's Avatar
Germantown, MD, US
Joined Sep 2004
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Hi Rob
with brushed motors, we can drive the motors directly from the controller without need for external ESCs (well we still need to add 4 FETs to the circuit though). So we save some weight and number of parts.

-thanh
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 02:21 AM
If it flies, I will crash it
mxspode's Avatar
USA, CO, Westminster
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Interesting. One has to wonder about Blade SR120 tail motors or even the tiny ones on the MSR. You could build a very tiny quad with those babies.

Rob...
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 09:47 AM
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Pennsylvania
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The motors are 3g and are available from Terence at ChineseJade.

The props are 4.5cm long and contain both a CW and CCW in the package and are available from indoorflyer The also sell brushless motors.

Both vendors are great to deal with and excellent shipping.
I understand about the ITG-3200 - could be an option down the line. I would think that if we could combine the receiver functionality then we could eliminate another part. Watched your living room video again - amazing that you could grab it and let go and it still hovered! Ordering my TI kit soon.

Mike
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 05:04 PM
That tree again!!!!
thanhTran's Avatar
Germantown, MD, US
Joined Sep 2004
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Hi Mike

Regarding using the built-in RF of the dev kit for the receiver, we will need to use the other target board (the dev kit comes with 2 target board) for transmitting and this would require modifying your TX a bit to hook to the transmitting target board. Or maybe we can try to reverse engineer an existing TX and try to understand its signal. The latter is complicated, and not working with many TX.

I've tried to tap the quad with a finger when it's flying, and the quad would end up flying higher after I tap it. It's still level though.

Thanks for the links to those little gems.

Do you know the diameter of the holes on the air ace props? I think it's better to fly with CW&CCW than tilting the motors. The reason is that when I give it sudden throttle jump the quad yaws, and that when I give yaw the quad tilts sometimes.

Are the 3g motors from Terence directly driving the props (without gear box)?
The UFO8 motors look a bit more expensive than some of brushed motors mentioned here:

* 2g brushless:
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...idProduct=7230

* 2.3g brushless:
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...idProduct=9666
With the 1 cell ESC (weights 0.6g) it brings the weight to around 3g for each motor which are the same weight with the motors from Terence.

* 1.95g brushed and gearbox:
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...dProduct=10000

* 3.3g brushed & gearbox
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...dProduct=10001

Too many choices and not sure which one to buy



-Thanh
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 05:16 PM
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Pennsylvania
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Hi Thanh,

Not sure of the hole diameter but I know I needed to bore it out to fit the motor shaft, I will measure it and yes I am direct driving it.

The motors are 4 for $20 so it is about the same but these are much more powerful. I have tried others and did not get the power.

We can get 4 props (two of each) for under $10

I understand about the receiver part. I will look around and see what I can find to go with my Walkera 2402 TX.

Mike
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Old Nov 13, 2010, 01:07 AM
That tree again!!!!
thanhTran's Avatar
Germantown, MD, US
Joined Sep 2004
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Thanks for the info Mike

It's great that you've tested them out. Will try to see if I can change the code to drive a brushed motor this weekend. If that works, will order the brushed motors and props. Wonder how long they would last still

Thanks

-Thanh
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Old Nov 15, 2010, 08:39 AM
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Pennsylvania
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So I searched for a receiver for the Walkera TX I have and while there are ones out there, the size of the units seemed really large if I am trying to make this as small as possible. I read on a few different places that other receivers work with Walkera, but did not find any really small ones. If anyone knows of any very small RX boards for Walkera, please let me know. That lead me back to the previous post about combining the RX on the board. I realize this is a challenge from the TX side, but just trying to reduce weight and physical size.

Since my interest is working towards something tiny and autonomous, I hate to invest in a new TX and receiver, but that might be my only option. I am guessing a 4-channel is all that is needed, but since I do not have any other TX, I am not sure where to begin.

Back to the autonomous notion and why this is such a great, modular project. I am sure this has been tried, but I could envision a collision avoidance type system with sensors. Most of my other robotics projects use IR, which would not be efficient in this case but some type of sensor would be mounted on all 4 sides and if the quad moved to close to an object it would back off. You could theoretically fly it down a hallway on its own.


I Found a Wii motion plus on e-bay for about $10.00, but the ITG-3200 breakout looks very nice from the size standpoint ($49) although certainly more expensive.

Should have my TI kit in a week or so. Since I just finished a project, I have to pace myself (or should I say my wife does

Mike
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