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Old Oct 31, 2010, 12:01 AM
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Stingray F5B's Avatar
Oxley, Vic, Australia
Joined Jun 2005
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Unilog killed Ice Lite 200 ??

Hi all,

At the recent Australia Japan F5B challenge, I managed to "kill" one of my new CC Ice Lite 200s. It was rather good being able to download all the data from them.

The problem occurred when, after landing I reached down to switch off the Rx in the model and the motor tried to start!! I immediately switched on again and the carried the model back to the pits to take apart and "make safe"

I have never had this problem before, but when I was checking out the Unilog firmware updates I notice that the latest version 1.15 lists "failsafe" so that the motor will not come on when there is a loss of signal, eg when you turn the Rx off - exactly the problem I had.

Has anyone else had this issue ?? I had thought it must have been the Ice ESC as that was the "new" part added, but Ken Ueyam said that they had had similar problems in Japan, and he was sure it was the Unilog, as it never happened to them when the ESC was connected directly to the Rx.

Ray
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 01:29 AM
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Which Unilog version where you using at the time?

Regards,
Gerben
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 02:39 AM
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steveburns's Avatar
Chipping Norton, UK
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I thought the last Unilog version to have this problem was 1.07 and only on Futaba. What radio are you using?
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 04:00 AM
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la528it's Avatar
United States, WA, Redmond
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My understanding is that with all castle products, the sequence is: battery tx rx, flight, battery rx tx... I've seen a 180 and 125 dance with the rx shut off after flight prior to removing the pack, though this does not explain loss of the esc
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 06:20 AM
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jjmouris's Avatar
Verenigd Koninkrijk, Fareham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la528it View Post
My understanding is that with all castle products, the sequence is: battery tx rx, flight, battery rx tx... I've seen a 180 and 125 dance with the rx shut off after flight prior to removing the pack, though this does not explain loss of the esc
I'll 1 up that and say that my understanding is to NEVER turn off the RX power before the main pack is disconnected. No matter what the brand of ESC is.

Having said that, it is a strange case since you say you are using newer then V1.07 software on the Unilog. Better inform Stephan Merz.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 10:01 AM
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Stingray F5B's Avatar
Oxley, Vic, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerben View Post
Which Unilog version where you using at the time?

Regards,
Gerben
Hi Gerban

Yes I was using version 1.07 !
I am surprised that I had not really noticed this problem before

I am now upgrading to version 1.15

Ray
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 10:06 AM
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Stingray F5B's Avatar
Oxley, Vic, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la528it View Post
My understanding is that with all castle products, the sequence is: battery tx rx, flight, battery rx tx... I've seen a 180 and 125 dance with the rx shut off after flight prior to removing the pack, though this does not explain loss of the esc
Yes, this is the order I have always used myself.

Connect up the model & flight pack.
Turn on the Tx & set up Gas box if used.
Go to the flight line & turn on the Rx & check all controls

Make flight.

Turn off the Rx (I thought the model was then relatively safe unless there was some "fault"!)

Turn off Tx & return to pits.
Disassemble model & unplug Flight pack!

Ray
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 10:13 AM
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Oxley, Vic, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmouris View Post
I'll 1 up that and say that my understanding is to NEVER turn off the RX power before the main pack is disconnected. No matter what the brand of ESC is.

Having said that, it is a strange case since you say you are using newer then V1.07 software on the Unilog. Better inform Stephan Merz.
No Joe & Steve, I WAS using 1.07 and I now use a Futaba 12FG and R6008HS Rx.

Until now I had thought it was best to turn the model off, as there was the possibility of accidently bumping the throttle switch when walking back to the pits.

I did this once walking out to the flight line ... Tx on neck strap, I did something, maybe adjust glasses & Tx swings & motor starts - gave me a fright & I think my helper needed a quick visit to the loo!!

So I always have the model OFF when ever possible !

Ray
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 10:18 AM
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Oxley, Vic, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la528it View Post
My understanding is that with all castle products, the sequence is: battery tx rx, flight, battery rx tx... I've seen a 180 and 125 dance with the rx shut off after flight prior to removing the pack, though this does not explain loss of the esc
I am assuming this caused the ESC "death".
The next flight the ESC did not start .. there is no spark when you connect a pack now.

I was still able to download the flight data, but since it was the second flight, it did not show the startup or maybe because the power was turned off it would not show this anyway ???

Ray
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 12:38 PM
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jjmouris's Avatar
Verenigd Koninkrijk, Fareham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray F5B View Post
Yes, this is the order I have always used myself.

Connect up the model & flight pack.
Turn on the Tx & set up Gas box if used.
Go to the flight line & turn on the Rx & check all controls

Make flight.

Turn off the Rx (I thought the model was then relatively safe unless there was some "fault"!)

Turn off Tx & return to pits.
Disassemble model & unplug Flight pack!

Ray
Ray, just to be sure you and Richard are not talking past each other.

This is the correct order from the 35Mhz/70Mhz days;

connect battery pack
turn on TX
turn on RX
make a flight
disconnect battery pack
turn off RX
turn off TX

What you say regarding accidental stuff with the TX, you could avoid this by changing the order as follows when using 2.4Ghz, i used to do this with my Spektrum DX7.

connect battery pack
turn on TX
turn on RX
make a flight
turn off TX
disconnect battery pack
turn off RX

Since with 2.4Ghz there should be no reason for the RX to command anything other then failsafe if your TX is off. Better check your failsafe positions on the RX before trying this with a live motor.

But then once i switched the TX off and the motor came on!!!! How, i still have no clue.

Note that your "fault" is not with the Unilog but with the Futaba RX. It also does not happen all the time. There is simply a chance the RX might give a single frame of full throttle when the RX powers down, just enough for the ESC to put the power on, then when it recognises there is no more valid input signal it will shut the motor down after 0,5 seconds. The newer software versions on the Unilog actually filter this fault out by not passing the short power on blip on to the ESC. However, i would not trust on this.

If your model was on the ground and the prop was stopped from rotating the very short but high current spike might have damaged your caps and fets. Lucky you that the ESC now refuses to put the power on as it could quite easy just catch fire.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 03:11 PM
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Nigel P's Avatar
Southampton UK
Joined Jan 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmouris View Post
Ray, just to be sure you and Richard are not talking past each other.

This is the correct order from the 35Mhz/70Mhz days;

connect battery pack
turn on TX
turn on RX
make a flight
disconnect battery pack
turn off RX
turn off TX

What you say regarding accidental stuff with the TX, you could avoid this by changing the order as follows when using 2.4Ghz, i used to do this with my Spektrum DX7.

connect battery pack
turn on TX
turn on RX
make a flight
turn off TX
disconnect battery pack
turn off RX

Since with 2.4Ghz there should be no reason for the RX to command anything other then failsafe if your TX is off. Better check your failsafe positions on the RX before trying this with a live motor.

But then once i switched the TX off and the motor came on!!!! How, i still have no clue.

Note that your "fault" is not with the Unilog but with the Futaba RX. It also does not happen all the time. There is simply a chance the RX might give a single frame of full throttle when the RX powers down, just enough for the ESC to put the power on, then when it recognises there is no more valid input signal it will shut the motor down after 0,5 seconds. The newer software versions on the Unilog actually filter this fault out by not passing the short power on blip on to the ESC. However, i would not trust on this.

If your model was on the ground and the prop was stopped from rotating the very short but high current spike might have damaged your caps and fets. Lucky you that the ESC now refuses to put the power on as it could quite easy just catch fire.
Joe,

So your just trading the controller not doing some thing stupid for the rx not doing some thing stupid.

Each to their own I suppose



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Old Oct 31, 2010, 04:58 PM
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jjmouris's Avatar
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Joined Aug 2008
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Nigel, if a 2.4Ghz RX does something "stupid" while it is supposed to work normally (eg it has sufficient power) it is going back to where it came from.

In the 35/72Mhz days if you would depower the TX, the RX would take any old background rubbish and pass it to the ESC, hense the servo's moving all over the place when you turn off the TX. That should be a thing of the past with the digital packedge format of 2.4Ghz.

If an ESC is LIVE, as in it has once recieved a valid signal and armed, it then is still live after you power down the RX. So again any old signal it managed to pick up will be processed and might result in the power coming on. No digital format here, just analog stuff. The only way to disarm the ESC is to take the power off it.

So yeah..... if i was going to choose, i would turn off the TX and NOT the RX. Then again, it is possible for the TX to send a stupid signal on shut down so i prefer to just take the power off the ESC as soon as possible.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 06:43 PM
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This is the order I have always done it:
turn on TX
turn on RX
connect battery pack
make a flight
disconnect battery pack
turn off RX
turn off TX

Why connect the main pack prior to the radio being on and operating? I prefer the minimum period of time that the motor has the potential to turn on. I don't use a neckstrap or tray and always keep a finger on the throttle stick/switch so it can't be bumped on accidently.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 07:06 PM
Needs to do 52 legs !!
jjmouris's Avatar
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Scot, that is fine for normal flying but for F5B we need to set up the course computer with a spare RX and the model needs to be OFF during this period as we will be giving motor ON to set the throttle range on the course equipment.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 10:39 PM
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Lenny970's Avatar
Greeley, Colorado, USA
Joined Feb 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmouris View Post
Scot, that is fine for normal flying but for F5B we need to set up the course computer with a spare RX and the model needs to be OFF during this period as we will be giving motor ON to set the throttle range on the course equipment.
Right. And when you've got models lined up waiting to fly the course, you have to be ready to go when your turn comes up. No time to be messing with the battery then.

Lenny
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