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Old Nov 05, 2010, 08:02 PM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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Bigger wire means for area for little electrons to zoom around on the wire. For wires, think water pipe. Smaller pipe, less water going through.

Sadly though, connectors also add a little bit of resistance (contact is never perfect). And when we are playing with 0.1V, every little thing count. In this case though, it's truly not much. But hey, if I can gain 0.01V, I may get 1 more second of flight|
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Old Nov 05, 2010, 08:32 PM
HELP I AM BEING SET UP!!
maukabud's Avatar
United States, OR, Deschutes
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGambler View Post
Bigger wire means for area for little electrons to zoom around on the wire. For wires, think water pipe. Smaller pipe, less water going through.

Sadly though, connectors also add a little bit of resistance (contact is never perfect). And when we are playing with 0.1V, every little thing count. In this case though, it's truly not much. But hey, if I can gain 0.01V, I may get 1 more second of flight|
I read in some other UM thread that a guy tinned his male pins on the pigtail to brick connector...he measured before and after and noted a slight v increase. They are a little loose...I did mine...to offset the increased resistance of the SP plug being still on there.


Bud, Bud
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 12:56 AM
**I'm Battman**
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Twin Falls, Idaho
Joined Jan 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maukabud View Post
hey HEY...she's not ugly...she's vintage! And flying very well, I might add.

I thought it was the other way around- the bigger the wire, the more resistance?

Good idea, that...soldering on a female SP connector on the 4S pigtail...motor install would indeed be a quick change then...hmmm, will have to check HK and see if they have any available. (didn't find any) Wondering- has anyone actually tried to mate a SP male connector to a female HH one? Pin spacing looks the same...square pins on the SP...maybe can be dremeled/filed?


Add on 14 more SPoresite flights for me...two of them outside (*gasp*) just now, no wind sunset conditions...4S looked gorgeous with the orange sunset light shining on it and the pondos and rimrock as backdrop...wish I coulda got a pic for the HH calendar!

So I'm up to almost 40 flights total now @5:30mins each w/ SP motor. Feels like the motor is getting stronger...breaking in nicely apparently...prop is very free spinning, as RC mentioned. More power also...last night I was able to actually hover in the gym, believe it or not!


Best mod ever for the 4S IMO. :thumbsup:



Bud, another dozen flights tonite Bud


B,

Decided to round the pins on the SP motor connector just for the adventure.
Spent about 5 min with sandpaper and a maginfying glass.
Very nice fit.
I'd rather just solder on a connector but it looks like it would work just fine in a pinch.



rc
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 05:58 AM
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Hi is this the motor ?

http://www.electriflite.co.uk/store/...ne4902002.html

I had to send back 2 4site motors thay were under preforming . i live on the other side of the pond than you guys and will try one out thay sound a good swap to me.

I have an old Kyosho edge 540 motor i have heared that the pinion gear is the same as the parkzone gear can anyone confirm this for me ?

Has anyone found a source for the pinion gears yet ?
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 12:09 PM
HELP I AM BEING SET UP!!
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United States, OR, Deschutes
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Hey Richos....yep that's the motor.

Dunno 'bout the other questions.

I think so far we're all just recycling the proper # tooth gears from our old worn motors.


Bud
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 02:15 PM
HELP I AM BEING SET UP!!
maukabud's Avatar
United States, OR, Deschutes
Joined Jul 2009
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Finally stepped up and sprung for a semit-decent pencil soldering iron...20/40w dual voltage. Can't find replacement tips for either my Harbor Freight or Lenke cheapies anywhere, so what the heck...at least I can get tips for this one. What with all the UM stuff nowadays I'm finding I'm doing lots more micro-type soldering.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062750


Bud, soldering Bud


EDIT: caveat emptor....figures I would pick the one iron that doesn't have tips available, either at the store or online...and terrible reviews to boot.......one job and the tip is burning out already...back it goes.
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 05:11 PM
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Houston, Texas USA
Joined Aug 2004
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Hey Bud, let us know which iron you finally decided on!
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 05:42 PM
**I'm Battman**
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Twin Falls, Idaho
Joined Jan 2005
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Solder station time:

Right before I moved from Vegas, I bought this sweet ride:
http://www.kiesub.com/prostores/serv...ECONOMY/Detail
Kiesub used them for commercial soldering because they last forever.
Mine has been a dream machine for 5 years now.


rc
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 05:48 PM
HELP I AM BEING SET UP!!
maukabud's Avatar
United States, OR, Deschutes
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$75 smackers....yer killin me ovah heah!






(add on oh say, at least 15 more flights so far tday....)
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Old Nov 07, 2010, 04:21 PM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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Not much to report, but hey, we have to keep this thread on top so people find out about those nice motors. And the nice weather we had during the weekend allowed me to put a few flights on the test bird:

36 flights so far on my noisy SP motor installed on my old V1 Sukhoi. So far, it's been great. Temperature has been cold though, since it's always around the freezing point (+/-4 degree) up here in Canada. Using Nano-Tech 160mah which are great above but pretty bad below freezing point. Funny how a few degres can make a difference. (I keep my Hyperion for my planes at work... C'mon have to show off)

Power on the new motor is definitively there. Since it's my old Sukhoi and since the fuselage had already been cracked twice, I have no problem pushing it badly which keep my battery warm, but sadly added TWO new cracks in my fuselage. I'm talking about fuselage cut in two parts here. So 4 times I had to glue it back and that old Sukhoi is still flying. The way I look at it now, the motor may last longer than my pool old Sukhoi here! Worst case, we will look at a full transplant to keep the tests going and going. But hey, there's still about two spots about an inch long that could use a crack there as well, so who knows.
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Old Nov 09, 2010, 03:30 PM
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Windsor, Canada, near Detroit
Joined Jul 2007
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failures of lipos

i have been flying my planes (4site and others) with these motors (clear, black, grey end bell) with 160 turnigys without problem, until now, that with 2 cells the motor quit 5 seconds after launch. the readings before launch were 4.12 and 4.15v, and afterwards 3.99 and 4.09v.
is there a way to predict this for instance, by measuring something?
you guys that fly a lot (like rc, bud), have this happened to you? if so, how often?
thanks
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Old Nov 09, 2010, 04:31 PM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by phil alvirez View Post
i have been flying my planes (4site and others) with these motors (clear, black, grey end bell) with 160 turnigys without problem, until now, that with 2 cells the motor quit 5 seconds after launch. the readings before launch were 4.12 and 4.15v, and afterwards 3.99 and 4.09v.
is there a way to predict this for instance, by measuring something?
you guys that fly a lot (like rc, bud), have this happened to you? if so, how often?
Welcome to the wonderful world of Turnigy 160mah batteries.... I bought some in 4 different batches. Batch 1,2 and 4 are still going strong. Most of my batteries from batch 3 are now dead, and most did it without warning. So one batch definitively had a bad chemical mix somewhere... It looked like the internal resistance of the battery went from low milliohms, to mega ohms overnight! Even then I'll still buy some, because cost wise, I'm getting my money worth!

So basically, the only thing you could do is mesure the internal resistance of your batteries vs some good ones. You need VERY well calibrated and accurate instruments to do so. In an ideal world, you could mesure the internal resistance when it's brand new, and every 5 flights after that and log this info for all your batteries. If you chart this, you may be able to see it go: low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low, med, high, too high!

There's tons of way to do it, including send A.C. or pulses in your batteries! (Will give you impedance instead of resistance, and would be closer to what we do since we send pulses to the motor).

The easiest way is:

Fully charge batteries.
Mesure voltage without charge: Lets call the result: V_bat
Connect a resistor to the charge: Lets say 24 ohm so we get nominal current
Mesure the current through the resistor: Lets call the result I_load

Internal resistance for your battery will be:

(V_bat/I_load)-24

So if your V_bat was 4.2V and I_load was 160mah then the internal resistance would be:

(4.2V/.16)-24 = 2.25 Ohm.... OUCH FAIL


Now, if your current was 174mah, then you could get:

(4.2V/.174)-24 = 0.13 Ohms.... better? Not really

As you can see, you want to be able to mesure even closer to what would be an ideal battery with no internal resistance. That would be:

(4.2V/.175)-24 = 0.0000000 Ohms


Now, this was done when drawing 160mah from your battery. Ideally, you want to also test it in the current range you will be using it, so same calculation, but while drawing somewhere between 1.3 amps and 1.6 amps. So your resistor value should be more like 3 Ohm!


Better way to do it would be to take two mesurement while under different load. (Using no load voltage is not the greatest way to do it).

So in this case, let say we use our 24 Ohm resistance and our 3 Ohm resistance. You mesure the voltage and the current for your 24 Ohm resistor (lets call the results V24 and I24) and then you remove the 24 Ohm resistor and mesure again with the 3 Ohm resistor instead (lets call the results V3 and I3). The final calculation after you rework all the equations would be simply:

Internal resistance= (V24-V3)/(I3-I24)

Example values: Voltage we don't use, but no load: 4.2V
Voltage across 24 Ohm resistor: 4.1V (V24)
Voltage across 3 Ohm resistor: 3.9V (V3)
Current going into 24 Ohm resistor: 170mah (I24)
Current going into 3 Ohm resistor: 1.5 amp (I3)

So internal resistance will be:

(4.1 - 3.9)/(1.5 - 0.170) = 0.1504 Ohms...

Now, let say the voltage with the bigger load (3 Ohm) only drop to 4.0V....

(4.1 - 4.0) / (1.5 - 0.170) = 0.0752 Ohms...

As you can see, you need good instruments to be able to reliably mesure fractions of a volt, and milliamps...

All that to say that now, you could mesure internal resistance of your cells and see them growing as they get older. Some fancy chargers do that calculation for you! Overall though, it's not that usefull to know for batteries like Turnigy, since it does seem like they have decent internal resistance, that turn into mega ohm overnight....

P.S.: As usual, I may be totally wrong! I'm not an ingineer, engienner, inginir, enginner, bof, a math genius!

P.P.S: yikes, I forgot... You need high power resistors to do those tests... Those small lipo pack a lot of punch! 1 watt or more for the 24 Ohm and 10 watts or more for the 3 Ohm. And sure enough, any resistor values in that ballpark will do the job. That's just numbers I threw there...
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Old Nov 09, 2010, 04:45 PM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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Now, so you can relax your brain after my previous msg, I'm giving you a video of my Sukhoi V1, with a SP motor in it. As I said before, I got two motors from Hobby King. One is very quiet, as other have said before... I would even also say it's a bit quieter than the original parkzone motor as well. But my second one is extremely noisy! That's the one I've installed in my Sukhoi. It's powerful, and it does sound like I have a 12 cylinder under the hood now! Trust me, the video does not even give you the full sound (it's taken with a cheap keychain type camera, so bad microphone and very bad audio sampling rate).

So basically, if you ever get some motors and you get a noisy one in the bunch, go for it. Only slightly over 30 flights, so not sure yet how long it will last, but wow, just listening to the sound, your plane seem to go faster

Parkzone ultra-micro Sukhoi V1 with noisy Solo Pro motor (2 min 19 sec)


Enjoy
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Old Nov 09, 2010, 06:34 PM
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Providence, RI, USA
Joined Dec 1996
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Is it a gear mesh problem?

John
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Old Nov 09, 2010, 06:47 PM
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Phil,

I am also one of those who flies a lot. Many of us who fly a lot, do so with premium cells, such as Hyperion. More recently - Thunder Power and Intellect have joined the UM cell fray. They seem to be promising, as well. Hyperions will typically last for 300+ cycles with little or no loss of performance - even when repetitively charged @ 5c. This assumes that you don't go beyond the maximum recommended discharge depth of 80% for LiPo chemistry. I've been flying Hyperions in my UM planes/helis since they first hit the stores. I have yet to lose a cell. I have a handful or two of Hyperion 130, 160, 180, and 240 mAh cells - many with nearly 300 cycles @ 5c charge. So far, they each still perform as they did just after break-in.

The Turnigy UM cells are noted for their high variability and short lifespan. In something like a Vapor, cheap cells are usually fine. However - in the higher-current apps such as the UM warbirds, 4-Site, or XP - cheap cells are usually a waste of money. Pick up some Hyperions. You will immediately notice the improvement in performance & flight-time - even when compared to a 'good' Turnigy cell.

I'm sure RC & Bud will chime in here.

Joel
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