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Old Feb 09, 2013, 10:40 AM
Right Rudder
PittSpecial's Avatar
USA, FL, Orlando
Joined Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by ronht View Post
Sorry if I missed this earlier, but I'm curious, did you try that prop on the 15 that came with the aircraft? Just wondering if it's necessary to mount a 480 and if this prop would work with the 15 that comes in the aircraft

Thanks in advance
Yes, I did use the same Propeller on the STOCK Park Zone 15 and it flew delight, however, the AMP draw was significant (Above 30 AMPS @ Full Throttle) but, still manageable if you manage throttle.

No, no need to change out your power system to the PZ 480 (960Kv) just in order to enjoy the GWS 4-Blade 10 X 8 X 4.

I have no IN-FLIGHT Video of when the times I flew my Jug using the GWS 4-Blade and the STOCK PZ 15, however, I do have "Static" Video of measurement session with this setup and you can find it at:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1826517

Good day.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 11:47 AM
Registered Crasher
United States, TX, Coppell
Joined Feb 2011
2,226 Posts
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Originally Posted by PittSpecial View Post
HA!!!!!!!!!!

Proved you Wrong!!!!!

Check it out:

Flight Summary

1. The Top Speed was observed into a stiff head wind of approximately 6-MPH and increasing as the morning got old. I would estimate (You can see for yourselves in the Video) approximately 45- 50 MPH.

2. The model felt really light on the controls and it flew exactly where I pointed it without any compensation, especially roll maneuvers. The Vertical is very good (Slow but, powerful) and most importantly for me, Scale.

3. The model landed like a true Scale model and touched down with cross-wind and did so on one Main Gear first without any hint of nosing over!

4. Battery still measured 12.03 Volts after the ~ 3 minute flight!!

Summary: I will keep this model with the Park Zone 480 (960Kv) from now on! Of course it maybe not for everyone but, I am certainly happy with the results and glad I accepted the challenge from the NAY SAYERS!!!

Here is the Video (Unedited): (PLEASE SELECT 1080P and FULL SCREEN!!!! )
http://youtu.be/kfpYJXHqK1A
Well, again, I never said it was impossible. Just not optimal in light of the other alternatives out there.

Your main impetus for doing this seems to be that you already had a 480 laying around for the attempt. That's not always true (I don't, for one), and if it comes to purchasing an alternative motor for this plane I still can't see recommending that one to anyone else. The main reasons still being: no published specs, cost ($45), and modifications required to mount it to this airframe.

Performance seems to be subjective in this case. There are many trade offs to be made. Personally, I would opt for better vertical and top speed performance, even at the cost of flight time. Weight is a good thing for me, as a low wind day around here is still 10-15 mph.

What would be impossible would be a park 360 or 250. Maybe you should prove me wrong there

All of that said, I'm still interested in a couple of things:
1. Are you getting better flight times over the stock motor at those speeds? The calcs were showing the p15 being more efficient. If you flew the same flights with both (with less throttle on the p15 so speeds were the same), one would think the efficiency would show up in real life. Even if not, knowing so would be fascinating to me.
2. Did you get rpm data for these motors? That will settle the thrust issues with the calcs, in case they aren't accurate.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 11:59 AM
Right Rudder
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USA, FL, Orlando
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor996 View Post


.....Blaa Blaa Blaa ......and more Blaa Blaa..

All of that said, I'm still interested in a couple of things:
1. Are you getting better flight times over the stock motor at those speeds? The calcs were showing the p15 being more efficient. If you flew the same flights with both (with less throttle on the p15 so speeds were the same), one would think the efficiency would show up in real life. Even if not, knowing so would be fascinating to me.
2. Did you get rpm data for these motors? That will settle the thrust issues with the calcs, in case they aren't accurate.
1. Yes!
2. Again, like I posted in previous posts and attempts to you, that the P-Calc does not take in account of the Special Airfoil that the GWS 4-Blade has and it is using the APC airfoild (Propellers are their own science), therefore, the P-Calc estimates are all way off when it comes to Efficiency thereby, the Watts-In & Watts-Out are off.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronht View Post
Sorry if I missed this earlier, but I'm curious, did you try that prop on the 15 that came with the aircraft? Just wondering if it's necessary to mount a 480 and if this prop would work with the 15 that comes in the aircraft

Thanks in advance
Pittspecial-fanbloodytastic vid,congrats on your succesful mod and i absolutley love your flying site! like rohnt i'm wondering if that gws 4 blader can be used with the stock15? If so i'll pick up one along with the t-28 prop adapter.I currently fly my jug bone stock,with nano-tech 2200mah 35-70c batts,with my timer set at 7mins. What kinda time can i expect on this 4bladder? As far as the T-28 prop adapter goes is it because the hub of the gws 4 blader is smaller? If thats the case i have a great prop reamer i could use and stick with the stock prop adapter to save a buck.Please advise sir and thank you in advance-kevin(i love big jugs!)
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 12:04 PM
Right Rudder
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USA, FL, Orlando
Joined Nov 2010
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Edited Video of my PZ P-47 Thunderbolt using the PZ 480!

Uploaded a fresh Video (Edited) to provide Credit to those that made this Video possible.

This time it was uploaded at the VIMEO site!!!

Enjoy!

Park Zone P-47 Thunderbolt Maiden with the PZ 480 Motor 02-09-2013 (4 min 16 sec)
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 12:08 PM
Right Rudder
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USA, FL, Orlando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin whitesell View Post
Pittspecial-fanbloodytastic vid,congrats on your succesful mod and i absolutley love your flying site! like rohnt i'm wondering if that gws 4 blader can be used with the stock15? If so i'll pick up one along with the t-28 prop adapter.I currently fly my jug bone stock,with nano-tech 2200mah 35-70c batts,with my timer set at 7mins. What kinda time can i expect on this 4bladder? As far as the T-28 prop adapter goes is it because the hub of the gws 4 blader is smaller? If thats the case i have a great prop reamer i could use and stick with the stock prop adapter to save a buck.Please advise sir and thank you in advance-kevin(i love big jugs!)
Hello Kevin,

I recall flying my Jug with the Stock PZ 15 Motor right at 1/2 throttle so,... even at 3/4 throttle and according to my Static measurements it was below 30-AMPs. It is only when you apply FULL Throttle that surpasses up to 36-AMPs (Static).

EDIT: Depending on your Throttle itch trigger finger....I got about 6 minutes of mixed throttle use with the PZ 15 and GWS 4-Blade. This was using Turnigy 3-Cell, 2200mAH, 25C, Li-POLYs!

You can acquire the GWS 4-Blade at:
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V419472

When you attempt to REAM out the Hub for fitting them on the Prop Adapter, please go easy and allow the Hub to COOL during drilling as these are soft plastic propellers and if you keep Drilling you will deform the hub!

EDIT: The GWS 4-Blade Prop comes with a Reduction Gear "HEX NUT" mount mold.
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Last edited by PittSpecial; Feb 09, 2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 12:32 PM
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THANKS PITTSPECIAL-for such a quick response (wow-nice!) I rarely go full throttle.I use what i've been told is called a bastard file to ream my props(a file which has a round and progressively thicker file blade) Slowly turning this file in the hub does a very nice job (so no heat or risk of warping) I may have a 40 amp esc laying around-so it's all good. If i firewall the 30 amp esc on the 4 bladder-just short bursts right! ONCE AGAIN THANKS BUD!-Kevin
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 12:33 PM
Right Rudder
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USA, FL, Orlando
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Kevin,

Welcomed!

Enjoy and have FUN! This is what this hobby is all about!!

Take NOTE of my BLUE Edits above
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 12:44 PM
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United States, TX, Coppell
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Originally Posted by PittSpecial View Post
1. Yes!
2. Again, like I posted in previous posts and attempts to you, that the P-Calc does not take in account of the Special Airfoil that the GWS 4-Blade has and it is using the APC airfoild (Propellers are their own science), therefore, the P-Calc estimates are all way off when it comes to Efficiency thereby, the Watts-In & Watts-Out are off.
ECalc (ecalc.ch) does have GWS prop settings, but it still shows different numbers. If you haven't noticed already, we're not using the same software.

So what were the rpm readings you got? You can calculate a measured (not predicted) efficiency with the watts and rpms. Without the rpms, there's no way to know how much energy is going towards heat vs thrust.

Also, in your opinion, why would parkzone opt to not use this motor in the P47 as stock, if it's so vastly superior?
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 02:04 PM
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Cochranton, Pa.
Joined Nov 2005
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I have used many of the GWS four blades on my P-51's. (look at my avatar) Reaming it out takes care to keep the hole centered. I start with small drill bits and step up until I get there. It takes at least four steps. Be careful! I also removed plastic from the hub to make the prop thinner. It was too thick from my adapters.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 02:38 PM
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United States, OH, Cincinnati
Joined Aug 2011
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Whenever I ream stuff out (including GWS props) I use a metric prop reamer that is stepped from 5 or 6 mm up to 8 (parkzone size) works great, even for aluminum spinners!
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 03:04 PM
I just want to go fly!
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United States, MD, Towson
Joined Aug 2012
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looking sweet!

still waiting on maiden! gws looks better than apc for sure IMHO.
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Last edited by walter3rd; Feb 09, 2013 at 03:28 PM.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 03:06 PM
Shut up and fly
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United States, CO, Firestone
Joined Jun 2008
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got bored with 97mph so went up to 112mph had to change the color to see it better still having fun

p.s. pitts knows his scale flying inside and out
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 03:19 PM
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United States, NJ, Newark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor996 View Post
ECalc (ecalc.ch) does have GWS prop settings, but it still shows different numbers. If you haven't noticed already, we're not using the same software.

So what were the rpm readings you got? You can calculate a measured (not predicted) efficiency with the watts and rpms. Without the rpms, there's no way to know how much energy is going towards heat vs thrust.

Also, in your opinion, why would parkzone opt to not use this motor in the P47 as stock, if it's so vastly superior?

i dont know how far are the differences on the ecalc and real life.. but in my case.. i used the 3 blade 10x7x3 with a tunigy motor and it came up with 380 watts and 35 AMPS.. the truth is i came with 325 watts and 30 amps static... so ecalc is only approximated results.. it even says that on top... so take ecalc just for study results... and not for FINAL results..
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 04:03 PM
Right Rudder
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USA, FL, Orlando
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walter3rd View Post
still waiting on maiden! gws looks better than apc for sure IMHO.
I have fell in Love with your Thunderbolt!

Just Love the yellow Cowl and yellow wheel wells! Just super!
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