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Old Oct 19, 2012, 01:18 AM
Some.. call him Tim...
Ducati Mechanic's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2008
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I thought you guys might like to see my flap-aliron mix ..

I have it setup so any configuration is possible.


Check out this video on YouTube:<br/><br/>
Pz p47 kit setup (1 min 44 sec)
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 05:42 AM
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That must transform this baby into near pattern plane rolls.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 09:58 AM
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United States, IL, Joliet
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I'd do that with a F-18 as the real ones ailerons become flaps
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:01 AM
Registered Crasher
United States, TX, Coppell
Joined Feb 2011
2,226 Posts
That's pretty cool. Did you do that on the A9?

Do you get the full down travel that is called for in the manual while still having room for the upward movement?

Tell me how it flies. I may try it. I'm not sure I need it at this point, since I'm used to the normal way the flaps work.

For me, my flap thinking is simple, but still easy to mess up and end up with a nose over:

1. Takeoff: Make sure the dang flaps are off! Crashed once by leaving them on...
2. Approach, click 'em on full
3. Landing, as soon as I get down, full up elevator, and flaps off ASAP.

Still, if I tend to mess up the controls on this plane, it's on one of the above. I'm a little worried all that mixing (and primarily the apparent various modes you're using) is going to confuse the heck out of me while landing this thing.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:06 AM
Some.. call him Tim...
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United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2008
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Yes Hitec A9, with a Optima7 RX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchie View Post
That must transform this baby into near pattern plane rolls.
For standard flying I'm running the HL 4blade pitched back to 11x8. I'm planning on throwing a 13X8 Xoar PJN two blade on it, when I want to have some real fun! I bet a few of my flying Buddy's that I could build a Warbird that will hover, and pop Top..

At the least(like you said), it will fly Pattern like a champ!
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:12 AM
ronht
Joined Sep 2009
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All looks great on the stand, but in the air, it is going to quickly turn into an accident looking for a place to happen.

First and foremost, you don't need flaperons on this or really any airplane other than a glider.

Secondly, and MOST IMPORTNATLY - having one flap down at a time (as demonstrated in the video) is going to induce a roll that your ailerons may not be able to counteract the result of which won't be pretty.

This airplane flies great as it's intended to be operated, with standard ailerons and standard 2 position flaps. If NOTHING else, make sure the flaps operate TOGETHER, (both come down at the same time and both go up at the same time or both operating with the aileron on the respective side)

Having one flap down with the other flap up with neutral ailerons will quickly get you in trouble and may cause you to lose control of the airplane.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:25 AM
Some.. call him Tim...
Ducati Mechanic's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2008
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I'm running 60% expo on everything, I have experience with stuff like this.. Most of my setups are 40 to 50 degs of throw, with 8o% expo.. Ive built other scale planes with 30deg plus of throw like this before. I also take the Time to find the CG sweet spot before I start messing around.. Ill post Video.. I guaranty I wont be pulling a snap to " trash bag"..

I had a Hanger9 58" Denight Special with 1500 watts that would wall, and pop top with the best of them, but the ailerons weren't long enough to control a hover..

Thats not my final setup, just showing what the mixing can do..
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:36 AM
ronht
Joined Sep 2009
415 Posts
One flap down, with the other flap up and neutral ailerons is going to produce a roll that may or may not be controllable. The expo you decide to use won't make any difference and the reduced throw only means you have less effective control to overcome the roll your one flap down is going to induce.

It's your airplane so you can do what you want, I'd just hate to see someone follow your lead thinking it's a great idea and end up losing their airplane because they don't know what to expect.

Take if for what it's worth, I have a great deal of experience in this as well. Over 42 years worth in the real world, I just hate to see someone lose their airplane because they may not understand what this setup will produce in the air.

I'll look forward to the video.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 12:04 PM
Some.. call him Tim...
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United States, TX, Austin
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AGREED! DON"T DO WHAT I DO! This is all experimental and not a standard mod. Sometimes we like to push the boundary's of whats possible..



If you listen to the video.. I only had one hand free(other hand holding camera), Thats why the flaps moved independent. I have them on the two sliders on the back of the radio(can change to any switch). Ill be adjusting them equally, and yes!, would never drop one flap at a time in flight! I can link them together, and will, as needed..

AS said above.. Just playing with the mixing, and showing whats possible. I have a ton more to do, but like the Idea of being able to bring the flaps down slowly, and independently if I choose.

Ill post what works, and what doesn't after I have time to fine tune it in the Air.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 12:37 PM
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Northern IL
Joined Sep 2006
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might have to mix in a little down elv when you drop the flaps for landing (if you have not) to keep from ballooning up too.

On all my ships with flaps there was a need to mix in a little down elv, when I drop my flaps I Personally like the ship to have about a 15 degree or so down attitude, this keeps the ship from stalling.

I hate to land and have to keep some down elv so it will not balloon up I have found if I set flaps for landing and ship is level it could lose forward speed and stall.

Just my .02
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 12:39 PM
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Be interesting to see some crow/butterfly mixing for awesome airbrakes.......

Dave
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 12:40 PM
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United States, TX, Coppell
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Don't forget the flight video...
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 12:41 PM
Some.. call him Tim...
Ducati Mechanic's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2008
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Good point! Thanks.. I had though of that, and planed on mixing a few % in, to begin with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor996 View Post
Don't forget the flight video...
Will do!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dav3uk View Post
Be interesting to see some crow/butterfly mixing for awesome airbrakes.......

Dave
Nice!!! Now that's what I'm talking about! I'll try that.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 01:40 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skypan12 View Post
might have to mix in a little down elv when you drop the flaps for landing (if you have not) to keep from ballooning up too.

On all my ships with flaps there was a need to mix in a little down elv, when I drop my flaps I Personally like the ship to have about a 15 degree or so down attitude, this keeps the ship from stalling.

I hate to land and have to keep some down elv so it will not balloon up I have found if I set flaps for landing and ship is level it could lose forward speed and stall.

Just my .02
If you have to mix in down elevator with the flaps you're probably deploying them to quickly or when the plane is moving to fast. By to quickly I mean 0 to full flaps on a switch. Just let the plane slow down and then drop 1/2 flaps. The plane should cease descent for a few seconds and fly in a level attitude then begin descending again. Once on a final approach you can add full flaps. This should lead to a slower landing speed and allow for a slightly steeper descent, though not much as the plane pics up speed very easily when going downhill.

-Brian
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
If you have to mix in down elevator with the flaps you're probably deploying them to quickly or when the plane is moving to fast. By to quickly I mean 0 to full flaps on a switch. Just let the plane slow down and then drop 1/2 flaps. The plane should cease descent for a few seconds and fly in a level attitude then begin descending again. Once on a final approach you can add full flaps. This should lead to a slower landing speed and allow for a slightly steeper descent, though not much as the plane pics up speed very easily when going downhill.

-Brian
Whilst being correct that bang the flaps down will produce a marked reaction, it is more down to the design of the plane and C of G location as to if it needs trim. Some aircraft may even need up trim as flaps create a nose down trim change. Swept wing designs especially often have odd reactions to flap.

But slow deployment is always going to be much better than having them on a switch.

Dave
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