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Old Dec 06, 2011, 01:42 AM
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Melbourne
Joined Aug 2010
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Wayne et al,

Have Gensace ever commented on the results ?

Curious how they actually grade their cells before construction if the IR readings are indeed accurate

Cheers
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Old Dec 06, 2011, 05:30 PM
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Rugby, UK
Joined Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by crusey_aus View Post
Wayne et al,

Have Gensace ever commented on the results ?

Curious how they actually grade their cells before construction is the IR readings are indeed accurate

Cheers
Scott,

I was told that when asked the difference between the various 'C' ratings, the response was that the foil used was of different thickness.
I have a 3S220025C and a3S220055C and the only difference I can see is the number on the outside. Dimensions and weights are identical. The 25C performs marginally better, within what we would expect from manufacturing tolerances. Note of all the packs measured the 30C came out with the best average cell IR, but again only marginally.

Wayne

Wayne
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 01:53 AM
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Canada, ON, Toronto
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Originally Posted by Wayne Giles View Post
I have a 3S220025C and a3S220055C and the only difference I can see is the number on the outside. Dimensions and weights are identical.
Economy of scale, for example Intel and AMD do the same when manufacturing microchips, they just produce a batch of the high-end CPUs and downclock/disable features in the low-end CPU to sell them at a lower price. They still make money in the end.

All those batteries are probably the same quality and from the same batch, some are sold as 25C, some as 30C and so on.

And we're none the wiser.
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 06:42 AM
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United States, AL
Joined Apr 2007
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Different thickness foil? Really? So they're selling a 25c pack and 55c pack made from identical cells for different prices? I'd love to see someone disassemble and measure the foil thickness to see if they really are different.

I got one of your first meters and it's traveled around the world with me Wayne, definitely worth every penny. As more meters get out into the hands of people who will use them more information such as this will be discovered.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Giles View Post
I was told that when asked the difference between the various 'C' ratings, the response was that the foil used was of different thickness.
I have a 3S220025C and a3S220055C and the only difference I can see is the number on the outside. Dimensions and weights are identical.
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by biskit View Post
Different thickness foil? Really? So they're selling a 25c pack and 55c pack made from identical cells for different prices? I'd love to see someone disassemble and measure the foil thickness to see if they really are different.
To me it looks like they are selling their 55C packs at different C ratings for a lower price, if you think about it, we shouldn't be really complaining about this...
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 04:03 PM
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Santa Clara, CA
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Originally Posted by GP73 View Post
To me it looks like they are selling their 55C packs at different C ratings for a lower price, if you think about it, we shouldn't be really complaining about this...
True, unless your application needs lighter batteries. Gen Ace 25C batteries weight is certainly in 45C range.

/Peter
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Old Dec 08, 2011, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by GP73 View Post
To me it looks like they are selling their 55C packs at different C ratings for a lower price, if you think about it, we shouldn't be really complaining about this...
GP,

Agreed, I was thinking that we should look at the 25C GA and think how good it is; I actually ran a full discharge at 30C and it just about coped with it. On the other hand the 55C pack collapsed at 35C.
Modern lipos are very good, I just wish the C ratings actually meant something.
We shouldn't be too critical overall, it may be a case of the optomistic /pessimistic view - "glass half-full/glass half empty".

Biskit,

Thanks for kind words about the meter. Some suppliers are honest enough about lipos; ProgressiveRC actually publish the measured IR values of their packs and the FOM calculated from the value. (see David Gray's post above.)
Here in the UK, the supplier I referred to above who volunteered their GensAce stock for scrutiny was Giant Cod. Even more impressive they told me, before testing, to analyse and publish the results however they turned out. They have always told me that whenever I am testing, whether they have supplied the pack or I have bought it myself, not necessarily from them.

Wayne
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Old Dec 08, 2011, 09:49 AM
Ignint McNugget
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Yes, kudos to David at ProgressiveRC for full disclosure of IR for the Spyder packs. David is a one-of-a-kind hobby shop curator.
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 03:10 AM
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Yes, kudos to David at ProgressiveRC for full disclosure of IR for the Spyder packs. David is a one-of-a-kind hobby shop curator.
And he gives you mints when you buy the meter!
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 02:03 PM
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Norcross, GA
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I received my ESR meter today. Excellent quality & very easy to use. It came from England & was packed perfect.(lots of bubble wrap) Also, it is the new no-switch version.
Thanks Wayne & David (ProgressiveRC) for taking care of my order. I plan to demo the meter this weekend to the club's membership. We have 111 members & about 85% fly electric.

George Royal
Secretary/Treasurer
Stone Mountain Radio Control Flyers (smrcf.com)
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 06:48 PM
ProgressiveRC
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Seattle, WA
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No problem George, and sorry for the hiccup in the order process - you caught us the day we ran out of the original model.

I'm sure the club will be "enlightened." Enjoy and please let us know if we can ever help with anything at all.

Cheers,
David
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 01:59 PM
Ignint McNugget
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Giles View Post
...Two conclusions are that we agree that the GA 2200 25C pack has outstandingly low IR values however we measure them and the higher C rated packs are still very good, but no better than the 25C - more evidence that C ratings are meaningless.

Wayne
I've got congruent results for some SkyLipo 3s 800 mA∙h packs. For kicks, I bought 1 each of the 20C, 30C, and 40C rated packs to compare IR via Wayne's meter. All packs had cells of good quality judged by the FOM, but it was curious to find the 30C cells to have lower IR than the 40C cells. Data attached.

Packs were tested after first or second charge - so these are "fresh" numbers.
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by write2dgray View Post
No problem George, and sorry for the hiccup in the order process - you caught us the day we ran out of the original model.

I'm sure the club will be "enlightened." Enjoy and please let us know if we can ever help with anything at all.

Cheers,
David
I don't see the meter on your site: how do I order it?

Thanks
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 10:44 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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http://www.progressiverc.com/esr-meter.html



Why do so many have such a difficult time finding most anything?

Hint ,this is a tool and was listed under tools.

Charles
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 11:11 AM
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Yes, thank you, a tool.
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