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Old Jul 26, 2012, 11:59 PM
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Interesting range of suggestions...

1. first thing I checked was if the wheels were spinning freely - check
2. then I checked if the tailwheel was loose or misaligned - check
3. reversing the gear gives it a rear sweep with the wheels under the CG for easy nose overs. The forward sweep must be normal and not the result of a crash.
4. checking for symmetry showed a difference of 1/8" in the left and right forward sweep (photo) - corrected now. I can see that being a problem perhaps.
5. both wheels were splayed out (as in not pigeon-toed) - better now. Really hard to bend the short axle bits.

Will test it at the field this weekend. Thanks for the help.

I replaced the BL25 motor shaft and the motor isn't running as quietly as it used to - sounds a little rough when it starts up - and in the meantime the Hyperion ZS3025-8 970KV I ordered has arrived. I was hoping to fly it on the BL25 for a set, then swap to the Hyperion and feel the difference the same day or next. Should I bother risking a deadstick on the repaired motor? I imagine the beating it took getting the shaft out couldn't have been good for it (installing the new shaft was a breeze). I've only had the plane out five times with about 6 flights each so the stock 'feel' isn't ingrained in me yet.

Also attached some pics of an aileron horn that just pulled out before any crash.. epoxied it back in, pulled the other out, and epoxied it too.

HS-82MG's are waiting to be installed next.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 01:39 AM
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The same thing happened to my aileron horns, the replacement wings have a tab now with 2 screws going thru to horn. I would use the hyperion motor, try to check amp pull though, mine pulls over 70amps with a 12x6 vox prop, haven't tried the stock prop. I'd hate to see you brownout, you may want a bigger esc to open that motor up, otherwise you probably won't notice that much difference, has more torque, better for harriers and hard climbs. I noticed it's not as easy to stall now which help on slower landings.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 08:42 AM
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Would appreciate a photo of your aileron horn setup if you can, slo-fly. I hadn't thought about doing bolts/screws through foam like the balsa planes are done. I know that glued/epoxied horns are a no-no on 60-90 size balsa warbirds, and with the size of the control surfaces on the Yak, can imagine this must be an even greater concern.

I have a CC ICE Lite 75A that would suit the amp draw you're seeing, and it looks like it would be a good slide in fit in the Yak. I'm running a well-balanced 12x6 APC TE with a 13x7 waiting to be tested. I'll run the watt meter on it and post the numbers, but I find that the CC datalogging shows lower amps and power output, even in the same static tests which is confusing.

I'll run the repaired BL25 initially and keep the plane over land (there's a lake/pond next to our field) just in case. No point in repairing a motor and not testing the result!
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:43 PM
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I'll try and get you a pic tonight, work has me tied up. I think I was around 1100 watts with a 13x5, 1200 watts and 78 amps with a 12x7 and now I'm using a 12x6 for 1100 watts. I could probably push it more but I'm in the middle of Arizona summer. Curious to see what your 13" prop pulls, you may need 100 amp esc!
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:03 PM
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It really sounds like the bearings in your repaired BL25 are hammered. They're easy to damage in an accident and when pressing the motor apart/together. I get bearings from rcbearings.com. Great service and prices.
My new wings have the new horns on them and I didn't bother with the screws. I epoxy the horns in the ailerons. I really can't see them getting pulled out. The rubbery, silicone looking glue that Eflite uses is a different story.
I killed my 4s motor on my last crash. I've got a good 3s motor I may try when I rebuild. It's good for about 650 watts with a 13x6.5. It's just hard on batteries.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 04:55 PM
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Looking for a "New" canopy, anyone have one they would like to sell? Horizon Hobby shows them on back order, and not due until mid august
Thanks,
Mike
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 07:53 PM
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Here are some photos of the new motor and ESC with datalogging results at 3500' altitude, 73F. Not the wattage expected but the ESC datalogging always give figures quite a bit less than the watt meter. The ESC cut off twice in flight running the 12x8E prop returning to power a few seconds later, so I'm guessing the 30C 4S 2.8Ah Zippy's don't have enough juice for the high pitch. Max current draw was 70A so it wasn't the ESC cutting out. Don't have a 13x7 on hand to test yet.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 08:29 PM
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I forgot to mention I run hyperion 35c 2950mah 4s, and 12x6 vox wood prop, probably why are numbers are so different. I haven't tried the stock lipo, the 2 I had caught fire when it crashed. Hyperions are pricey but I get 40 percent off if I bring in a crashed hyperion lipo to my lhs. That and the 6c charging rate makes field charging much quicker. I haven't tried anything bigger than a 13x5 or 12x7 yet, haven't tried the stock prop or apc props yet. On my first flight with new motor I chunked a 13" prop, I think the extra weight and springy gear isn't helping my situation either. I think I'm gonna ditch the telemetry, get a smaller rx, and probably a hobbywing esc to lighten the load a tad.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 11:50 PM
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A lighter ESC and better wiring would solve most of the weight problem but I'm just glad to have it up in the air with unlimited vertical at a tad past half throttle. With the extra weight I did notice it comes in for landings faster and needs more runway for roll-out. I'll stick with 12x6's for now. Would be nice to have better batteries but cycling through three packs charging at 2C (the advised limit on these Zippys) in 20 minutes keeps me going pretty much non-stop.

I'm thinking of putting some fiberglass and resin on the rudder trailing edge to harden it - it's getting a bit mushy with hanger rash.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 12:43 AM
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On the 8th or 9th flight this morning, while banking to make the approach to land the ESC cut the battery off and rather than fly into a barbed wire fence, I ditched it in the pasture. It was a combination of getting a little too happy with the WOT high speed passes (it's my first plane after the Nexstar trainer, I'm allowed to enjoy some speed finally!) and a poor choice setting the Castle ESC to hard low voltage cutoff (the default) rather than soft cutoff, which would have given me the time to make a decent landing. You don't want the ESC to cut power completely when making a low cornering approach to land!

True to the many posts in this thread, the Yak broke cleanly just behind the canopy, the canopy popped off, the pilot bailed out (and in my disgust I forgot to look for him), and one of the elevator hinges popped up through the foam. On later inspection the stock rudder servo was doing the jitter thing with no input. Motor and ESC appear to run ok at the moment.

A gorgeous Sunday flying day aborted, I spent a few hours with some epoxy and CA, canopy glue and a couple HS-82MGs to replace the rudder and elevator servos. I need another long servo arm before I can do the ailerons. I figure since everything that people say can go wrong has gone wrong, I better swap out the servos before worse damage occurs. Post #424 and #2695 were excellent resources on replacing the servos.

The end result is fine. Appearance-wise, the worst thing that happened was caused by the repair job -- I won't be putting masking tape on the paint again.

Is there a good marker or something that will match the blue? I tried a blue Sharpie but the color is too light.

Jittery servo vid - link.
Why you want to match the rudder and elevator with the same servo - link.
HS-82MGs on both rudder and elevator link.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 07:16 AM
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Just had to ask, for first plane past a trainer, were you flying with that much movement on elevator and rudder? If so, I commend your abilities - you are learning very well and doing super.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 09:10 PM
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Haha no.. I use very low rates with at least 30% expo, experimenting with high rates only when I'm very high up and my finger not leaving the switch (had a few panic attacks). I've built three .60 size warbird kits now and I'm trying to catch up on the flying skills before I risk them - figured a large foamy would be a less painful next step.
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 03:22 PM
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I switched to high rates once, and ended up in a cow pasture too No damage on that flight, but flew out of range on last flight and mine looked similar to yours. Since then, I have a new motor from ebay, $20 and seems to run cooler, that Im gonna try out hopefully this weekend. BTW, this has been my first plane so you can understand why those high rates seem really intimidating to me. This plane wasnt meant for a beginner!
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 04:05 PM
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The yak still makes me nervous and I've been flying for about 8 years now. I fly my 3d depron biplanes much more, I can get crazy with those and still be relaxed, much less nerve wrecking. I have one bipe for front yard 3d thrills and the other bipe has 200 led lights for night flying, sometimes the fun never stops. I prefer the bipes cause it's like flying in slow motion, I seem to learn much quicker with something super slow and floaty, keeps me out of trouble!
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 05:19 PM
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If anyone's interested, I have a brand new E Flite 60amp ESC (same as stock) that I don't need. PM me and we can work a deal. I pulled it from the new Parkzone Habu 2. Never flown, only bench tested to verify it works, which it does.
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 06:30 PM
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If anyone's interested, I have a brand new E Flite 60amp ESC (same as stock) that I don't need. PM me and we can work a deal. I pulled it from the new Parkzone Habu 2. Never flown, only bench tested to verify it works, which it does.
How much and where are you?
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 06:53 PM
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How much and where are you?
I sent you a private message.
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 10:26 PM
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Can somebody please tell me how much the stock esc weighs? I gave mine to a friend and can't recall the weight. I want to use an 80 amp hobbywing esc, it weighs 77 grams, has 4 amp switching bec and 120 amp burst rating and the price is affordable. They also have 60 amp and 100 amp versions if anybody is interested, more info here www.hobbywing.com
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 12:08 AM
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I found the specs on hh website, says the 60 amp esc weighs 66 grams, has 2.5 amp bec, burst at 75 amps.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 09:22 PM
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Hey slowfly, where did you get your Hyperion motor?
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 01:07 AM
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Hey slowfly, where did you get your Hyperion motor?
I bought mine from national hobbies in mesa Arizona, I heard they just went out of business though. They sold mainly heli stuff, I guess that hyperion as well as the 3026-1000 are good motors for 450 size heli's so they happen to have it in stock. I've been thinking about doing a 3s yak here soon, make it as light as possible. The 80 amp hobbywing pro esc looks good with the hyperion motor, only 11 grams gain in weight. The motor is around $75, the esc is around $55.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 02:57 AM
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Allerc.com has hyperion motors.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 03:06 AM
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I was looking at the airtronics 94761Z servo, it looks like the best servo available for the yak. It has the same dimensions as the stock servo except the airtronics uses dual mounting hole tabs. I use hitec 5085 which are rated at 50/60 ounces of torque, speed is .17/.13 and weighs 22 grams. The airtronics is 55/66 ounces of torque and .15/.12 speed and weigh 23 grams. The airtronics looks to be the fastest and strongest servo for the yak I could find.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 08:24 AM
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I bought mine at Allerc.com also. They incorrectly sent me the backmount version ZS3025B-08 but the same day I sent them an email about the mistake they shipped the correct ZS3025-08 together with a prepaid UPS label for me to return the B-version to them. Good service.

I found that the collet adapter that comes with the Hyperion is a bit too short for APC E props (the nut tightens on, but just barely), but the HP-ADAP-50L HYPERION LONG 5.0mm COLLET ADAPTER M6 (EP) I also ordered for $5 works well. Neither Hyperion collet will let you use the spinner, and props reamed for the stock Yak collet won't fit on the thin M6 shaft. On the positive side, you don't have to ream new APC E props to fit on the M6 shafts, just push in one of the plastic APC hub adapters and ream the inside of it ever so slightly. I might try ordering the HP-AD-850XXL Hyperion Extra Long Prop Adapter - 5mm for $9 from rcdude.com -- it has a length of 48mm vs the stock length of 45-46mm and I believe would allow installation of the spinner. Of course then you're back to the same M8 shaft as the stock adapter which you could just order from Horizon (with another set of motor mount screws - these get stripped easily).

I found that the stock adapter was quite soft: it bent easily and the threads got mushed up after a few prop changes. For now I'm without a spinner and hoping that not having it doesn't cause reduced airflow/cooling/motor temp issues.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by slo-fly View Post
I bought mine from national hobbies in mesa Arizona, I heard they just went out of business though. They sold mainly heli stuff, I guess that hyperion as well as the 3026-1000 are good motors for 450 size heli's so they happen to have it in stock. I've been thinking about doing a 3s yak here soon, make it as light as possible. The 80 amp hobbywing pro esc looks good with the hyperion motor, only 11 grams gain in weight. The motor is around $75, the esc is around $55.
So im guessing yours is the H motor. The zs3035 is $125!
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 08:27 AM
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I bought mine at Allerc.com also. They incorrectly sent me the backmount version ZS3025B-08 but the same day I sent them an email about the mistake they shipped the correct ZS3025-08 together with a prepaid UPS label for me to return the B-version to them. Good service.

I found that the collet adapter that comes with the Hyperion is a bit too short for APC E props (the nut tightens on, but just barely), but the HP-ADAP-50L HYPERION LONG 5.0mm COLLET ADAPTER M6 (EP) I also ordered for $5 works well. Neither Hyperion collet will let you use the spinner, and props reamed for the stock Yak collet won't fit on the thin M6 shaft. On the positive side, you don't have to ream new APC E props to fit on the M6 shafts, just push in one of the plastic APC hub adapters and ream the inside of it ever so slightly. I might try ordering the HP-AD-850XXL Hyperion Extra Long Prop Adapter - 5mm for $9 from rcdude.com -- it has a length of 48mm vs the stock length of 45-46mm and I believe would allow installation of the spinner. Of course then you're back to the same M8 shaft as the stock adapter which you could just order from Horizon (with another set of motor mount screws - these get stripped easily).

I found that the stock adapter was quite soft: it bent easily and the threads got mushed up after a few prop changes. For now I'm without a spinner and hoping that not having it doesn't cause reduced airflow/cooling/motor temp issues.
The spinner is actually not good for airflow. You will get better cooling without something blocking the air hole
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:01 AM
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So im guessing yours is the H motor. The zs3035 is $125!
I am using the ZS3025-8, it's 970Kv, weighs 197.6g. The 3026-1000 is 1000Kv and I believe weighs the same as zs3025-8. I'm guessing the 3035 is too big for the yak.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:07 AM
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I bought mine at Allerc.com also. They incorrectly sent me the backmount version ZS3025B-08 but the same day I sent them an email about the mistake they shipped the correct ZS3025-08 together with a prepaid UPS label for me to return the B-version to them. Good service.

I found that the collet adapter that comes with the Hyperion is a bit too short for APC E props (the nut tightens on, but just barely), but the HP-ADAP-50L HYPERION LONG 5.0mm COLLET ADAPTER M6 (EP) I also ordered for $5 works well. Neither Hyperion collet will let you use the spinner, and props reamed for the stock Yak collet won't fit on the thin M6 shaft. On the positive side, you don't have to ream new APC E props to fit on the M6 shafts, just push in one of the plastic APC hub adapters and ream the inside of it ever so slightly. I might try ordering the HP-AD-850XXL Hyperion Extra Long Prop Adapter - 5mm for $9 from rcdude.com -- it has a length of 48mm vs the stock length of 45-46mm and I believe would allow installation of the spinner. Of course then you're back to the same M8 shaft as the stock adapter which you could just order from Horizon (with another set of motor mount screws - these get stripped easily).

I found that the stock adapter was quite soft: it bent easily and the threads got mushed up after a few prop changes. For now I'm without a spinner and hoping that not having it doesn't cause reduced airflow/cooling/motor temp issues.
I forgot about the hyperion adapter, it is a tad short. I use a precision aerobatics 5mm prop adapter and a pa carbon fiber spinner, works great!
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:24 AM
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I saw empire and allerc charge $125 for the 3025-8! Wow, I only paid $75, I saw www.scaleflying.com has it for $77.99 but are out of stock.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:25 AM
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I am using the ZS3025-8, it's 970Kv, weighs 197.6g. The 3026-1000 is 1000Kv and I believe weighs the same as zs3025-8. I'm guessing the 3035 is too big for the yak.
Oh dang, you got a sweet deal then!
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 10:46 AM
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I saw the scorpion hk-3026-1000 at www.scaleflying.com for $74.99. This is probably the best bet if it fits which I'm pretty sure it does.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 01:40 PM
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I'm also looking at the hyperion 3020-08, specs look good at 1050 watts and it weighs 161.7g. I'll probably use this motor for the 3s setup.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 01:47 PM
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I ran my 3 cell up on the wattmeter last night and I'm getting around 550 watts with a 12x6 on a 1000kv Suppo style 2826. It weighs around 170 grams and I use 25 or 55c Gens Ace 2600s. I normally used a 13x6.5 on this motor in cooler weather but don't want to push it too hard in the heat. Hopefully will remaiden mine tomorrow morning. I painted the fuse solid white and it's ugly.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 02:10 PM
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I figure I could reduce the weight by at least 5 ounces using the hyperion 3s 35c 2600mah, the 3020-08 motor and 60amp hobbywing pro esc and removing the pilot. I need to find a lighter main wing tube, the stock one is very heavy.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 03:00 PM
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A Motrofly 950kv 2820 would be my dream motor for 3s power on this plane. The 750kv one for 4s. Maybe someday.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 05:35 PM
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I've got a Precision Aerobatics Thrust 40 motor in mine. I use 4s 2200mah to lighten up the nose this is a great combination for 3D.........
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 08:15 PM
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I saw the scorpion hk-3026-1000 at www.scaleflying.com for $74.99. This is probably the best bet if it fits which I'm pretty sure it does.
Problem is all his $75 motors are out of stock.

Does anyone know what the stock prop/motor pulls in watts?
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 08:51 PM
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I made a post on Feb 23, post #2476 about calling hh for a set of new wings, well they finally showed up at my door today. I had forgot about them! I need a new fuse which is on backorder again and it looks like the rest I need is in stock. This 3s setup might go together quicker than I thought, if I can find a fuse soon!
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 09:52 PM
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He had one a few weeks ago. Might get lucky. http://www.mikeshobbyshop.com/
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 12:48 AM
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I found a fuse at the lhs, I plan on selling my 4s yak now, I will sell the cc ice lite 80 amp and hyperion 3025-08 motor for $190 shipping included, pm me if interested. The esc and motor have less than 10 minutes run time on them and are like new condition. If I don't sell I will probably use them for a trex 500 flybarless heli.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 01:46 AM
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I ran my 3 cell up on the wattmeter last night and I'm getting around 550 watts with a 12x6 on a 1000kv Suppo style 2826. It weighs around 170 grams and I use 25 or 55c Gens Ace 2600s. I normally used a 13x6.5 on this motor in cooler weather but don't want to push it too hard in the heat. Hopefully will remaiden mine tomorrow morning. I painted the fuse solid white and it's ugly.
How many watts are you pulling on the 13x6.5 prop 3s setup? I'm curious cause I was thinking you could probably run 3s on a stock setup with a 14x7 prop. I think stock spin is around 16,000 rpm on 4s, on 3s it would be around 12,000 rpm so a bigger prop should compensate. I was thinking of raising the Kv to 1200 or so to get around 14,400 rpm on 3s and use a 13x6 or so prop. Then I was thinking I could run a 12x4 for 4s at any time.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 09:28 AM
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I have been reading a lot about people trying to lighten up this plane. I would like to do the same. I have been flying with Skylipo 4s 3300s, and this plane handles like a brick. Could I switch to 3s 3300's with the stock set up? If not, what changes would I have to make?
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 09:40 AM
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A 3s setup will need a larger prop to get roughly the same performance as stock. If you really want to lighten up, go with an even smaller battery if you don't mind shorter flight times. They really need to be good ones though to stand up to the draw.

I think my watts with a 13x6.5 was around 625 or so. I don't have one to throw on there at the moment. I'd bet the stock motor would be a good choice for a 3s setup.

Flew mine again this morning in pretty breezy conditions. It got thrown around by the wind a good bit. It definitely feels underpowered but it has enough to get by. Not a lot of pullout from a hover. Overall it flew pretty decent but I'll go back to a 4s setup eventually. My 4s batteries are a good bit newer than my tired 3s 2600s.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 10:06 AM
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A 3s setup will need a larger prop to get roughly the same performance as stock. If you really want to lighten up, go with an even smaller battery if you don't mind shorter flight times. They really need to be good ones though to stand up to the draw.

I think my watts with a 13x6.5 was around 625 or so. I don't have one to throw on there at the moment. I'd bet the stock motor would be a good choice for a 3s setup.

Flew mine again this morning in pretty breezy conditions. It got thrown around by the wind a good bit. It definitely feels underpowered but it has enough to get by. Not a lot of pullout from a hover. Overall it flew pretty decent but I'll go back to a 4s setup eventually. My 4s batteries are a good bit newer than my tired 3s 2600s.
I was thinking of going with a 13.4 prop, a 3s 3300 batt., and a 40 amp eflite ESC. I currently have an ICE 75 amp esc in the plane, but it is pretty big and heavy. I will put it on a meter later to see how it performs.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 10:17 AM
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A 13x4 will make it awfully slow on 3s but it will keep the amp draw down. I think mine draws around 50 amps with a 12x6 which draws a bit more than a 13x4. I'd probably just try a smaller 4s battery like a 2200.

Here's my pebbly plane. Too much spraypaint applied in heavy coats will definitely texure your plane! Helps with gripping it though. Kinda like a football.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 11:55 AM
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I was thinking of going with a 13.4 prop, a 3s 3300 batt., and a 40 amp eflite ESC. I currently have an ICE 75 amp esc in the plane, but it is pretty big and heavy. I will put it on a meter later to see how it performs.
40amp esc might be too small for a 3s application. If you pull around 700 watts on a 3s lipo you're gonna be around 58amps.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Took the yakker out for a couple quick flights today a bit windy [12mph]but i wanted to do some speed runs,i installed the eagletree speed sensor,first run level flight flying with the wind i got 81mph,2nd flight with the wind with a slight dive from a little above treetop i got 83,motor,esc are stock,using a 12x6apc with turnigy nano 3000 4s 25c.the yakker moves pretty good in its stock configuration

Ron
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 04:14 PM
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I ran most every prop I had that would fit through my Watt meter and scale for amp/watt/thrust, and then figured relative efflux(theoretic prop wash speed) assuming 15K RPM, don't have a tach, but it should be somewhere in that neighborhood. General rule is larger diameter=better control and more wash over the control surfaces, faster efflux=faster top speed, less "braking" when throttle is reduced, aerodynamics dictate how close to the efflux speed the plane can go, amp draw and watts are self explanatory. Going by Horizons ratings of 60A constant, and 75A for 15 second burst, all of the props I tested fall under that, so at worst, you should limit firewalling the throttle to 15 seconds on the higher draw props.

Thing is that at speed, a prop is drawing fewer amps than static, so even if a prop draws 70 amps when punching out of a hover full throttle, then 15 seconds later with this plane, it is probably going to be doing 60+MPH, and probably drawing less than the 60 amp continuous rating. Battery C rating and capacity also affect amp draw, on a fresh 3Ah 30C, it may draw 10 amps more compared to a fresh 2.65Ah 25C battery, or even the original 3Ah 30C when it is low on charge. Differences in conditions, altitude, and your individual setup including subtle variances in equipment, temp, vibrations, and airflow over the ESC affect it's efficiency, and how much it can take.

Tested on stock battery drained about 25% to 4v per cell.
10.5X9(PKZ Extra300 prop) 70A, 985W, 4#7oz thrust, 127mph

12X5.25(stock prop) 59A 880W, 5#13oz thrust, 74.5mph

12X6APC E-prop 74A, 1025W, 6#1oz thrust, 85mph

13X4APC E-prop 68A, 975W, 7#6oz thrust, 57MPH

The 12X6 and 13X4 APC props are fine, and work great, the 12X6 when you want to go fast, the 13X4 when you want to go slow, or fly 3D. The 10.5X9 loses too much thrust, and while it looks to be the fastest in the air(blistering fast from a dive), it takes forever to build speed. The stock prop would be a happy medium, especially given the lowest draw of the bunch, if 9 out of 10 weren't defective.
I remember back in the thread the calculated speeds being posted somewhere by alucard,i did a search and found the numbers he come up with,he was almost on the bulls eye,now i cant wait to try out a smaller prop,i dont have a 10x6 but i do have a 10x7apc ,should put me in the 100mph club with the yak LOL

Ron
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 04:23 PM
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If you want 100mph use the pz extra 300 prop or APC 10x10e
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 04:57 PM
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If you want 100mph use the pz extra 300 prop or APC 10x10e

I dont have the 300 prop lying around ,i was reading alucard post wrong,i thought it said 10x5 [DUH],i looked up the extra now i get it 10.5 x9.LOL,well i dont have one of those but i do have a 10x10,gotta see what the amps look like with that one,i also have a 9x9 and a 10x7 i run the 10x7 on my pulse 25 with a P25 1250 kv and that pulls 62 amps and screams so i gotta see what the amps look like on this,not really into making this a speed demon,just curious about the speed, and since i have the sensor still mounted on there i wanted to see what it can do,after i am done i will go back to my 12x6

Thanks Ron
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 08:38 PM
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OK...here are my numbers: (stock motor, 75 amp Ice Esc, 2200 3s batter, 13.4 asc prop) 466 watts, and 40 amps. Would I have a problem flying this setup?
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 08:43 PM
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I dont think with 2200. You will kill the battery unless you have a 50c or higher. Also you will have only like 2 minuts rumtime
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 08:44 PM
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 08:48 PM
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It will probably fly but feel underpowered. You may want to try a 14x7 to bring the watts up. I use the 10 watts to every ounce method, you would be good for a 46 ounce yak. I would shoot for 600 watts, I probably wouldn't attempt flying at 440 watts but it's probably possible. Your lipo is too small, I bought a hyperion 2600mah, 45c, 3s, not sure if that's gonna be big enough.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 08:50 PM
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It will probably fly but feel underpowered. You may want to try a 14x7 to bring the watts up. I use the 10 watts to every ounce method, you would be good for a 46 ounce yak. I would shoot for 600 watts, I probably wouldn't attempt flying at 440 watts but it's probably possible.
What do you think my run time would be at 14 x 7? With a 2200 3s, or a 3200 3s?
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 09:05 PM
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I had about a 4 minute flight with a 3s 2200 this morning. Haven't measured the watts with this battery but it's probably around 450ish. It wasn't a powerhouse but had enough juice to hover. Runtime is all about how you manage the throttle. I think I'd give the 14x7 a try. Be sure and check your balance.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 09:18 PM
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What do you think my run time would be at 14 x 7? With a 2200 3s, or a 3200 3s?
I'm going to assume the 14x7 will pull around 50amps, you might see around 3-4 minutes run time on 2200mah, a 2600mah should go 4-5 minutes, 3200mah will be around 5-6 minutes, maybe 7 mins max.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 03:28 AM
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I finally got around to some 3s testing on the hyperion 3025-8 motor and a 12X6 vox prop and the results are in, 576 watts and 48 amps. It will probably fly pretty good just the way it sits. I highly recommend the hyperion 45c lipo for 3s applications, this lipo will take a beating and it throws down some power!
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 03:45 AM
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Is there a particular reason for running a 3s with this plane? Just curious...
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 03:58 AM
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It's a weight thing. My hyperion 2950mah 4s weighs 12.5 ounces, the 2600mah 3s weighs 8 ounces. That and 3s lipo are cheaper.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 04:58 AM
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It's a weight thing. My hyperion 2950mah 4s weighs 12.5 ounces, the 2600mah 3s weighs 8 ounces. That and 3s lipo are cheaper.
Check out this battery. Aside from being more expensive, it's a 4s 2700mah and weighs 8.4oz

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...C-148V-2700mAh
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 10:37 AM
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E-flite Carbon-Z Yak props

... still suck big-time.

I thought that after over a year E-flite would have addressed the issue of props so bad they can't be balanced, so I bought one.

I put it on a DuBro TruSpin balancer and positioned it vertically; it immediately swung level as shown. I started by putting thin layers of CA on the light side of the hub, and eventually had a big thick blob. Then I put 5 or 6 layers of Scotch transparent tape on top of the CA. Then I tried Flex-i-filing the heavy side. Then I switched to a Dremel. When I had removed a lot of the heavy-side hub I started removing material from the blade roots.

After over an hour of this I decided that even if I could get this prop to balance I wouldn't put it on the Yak and go flying.

Fortunately I had rat-holed a couple of APC 12x6Es, so I spent about 10 minutes total balancing both of them, and I'll put one on the Yak.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Not-Velcro bleg

The ESC of the Yak came attached to the fuselage with a material that looks like Velcro, but isn't. The best description I have is two identical mating surfaces that are both similar to the hooks of hook-and-loop fasteners.

It is the same type of material as that supplied with AnyLink modules to attach them to transmitters.

What is this stuff, and where can I find it? Horizon Tech Support wasn't any help.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinrc View Post
The ESC of the Yak came attached to the fuselage with a material that looks like Velcro, but isn't. The best description I have is two identical mating surfaces that are both similar to the hooks of hook-and-loop fasteners.

It is the same type of material as that supplied with AnyLink modules to attach them to transmitters.

What is this stuff, and where can I find it? Horizon Tech Support wasn't any help.
I have being serching for a wile for the same as you wirh no luck. I do like it a lot for my other airplanes if you found something let me know please.

I am using right now the align and turnigys hook and loop stripes not the same but very clean thin material not a fluffy loop like normal stuff the bad side is they are strip and need to glue with ca. Also parkzone have some sticky hook n loop similar that the one on the micros they work just great y have only found them on ebay.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by slo-fly View Post
It will probably fly but feel underpowered. You may want to try a 14x7 to bring the watts up. I use the 10 watts to every ounce method, you would be good for a 46 ounce yak. I would shoot for 600 watts, I probably wouldn't attempt flying at 440 watts but it's probably possible. Your lipo is too small, I bought a hyperion 2600mah, 45c, 3s, not sure if that's gonna be big enough.
I was able to fly the plane with a 14 x 7 prop, and a 3s 3200 battery. However, the 14 x7 struck pavement on both takeoff and landing (prop broken). I like the 14 x 7, but it just does not have the clearance.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 01:39 PM
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Also parkzone have some sticky hook n loop similar that the one on the micros they work just great y have only found them on ebay.
Velcro for Posters is to me indistinguishable from the stuff Parkzone micro batteries are attached with. It's available at Lowe's or Home Depot (can't remember which).
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ufale View Post
I was able to fly the plane with a 14 x 7 prop, and a 3s 3200 battery. However, the 14 x7 struck pavement on both takeoff and landing (prop broken). I like the 14 x 7, but it just does not have the clearance.
Did you get any watt numbers from the 14X7? I was afraid clearance might be a problem with a 14" prop, maybe have to bend the landing gear and or get bigger wheels. Option 3 (this one costs a bit more) get the hyperion 3025-8 motor and 45c lipo, then you'll have enough power for a 12" or 13" prop on 3s. I will get an AUW on mine, it should be fine on a 12x6 prop with 3s. It would be nice to have the capability to run 4s for speed runs and 3s for 3d flying without changing a prop.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by slo-fly View Post
Did you get any watt numbers from the 14X7? I was afraid clearance might be a problem with a 14" prop, maybe have to bend the landing gear and or get bigger wheels. Option 3 (this one costs a bit more) get the hyperion 3025-8 motor and 45c lipo, then you'll have enough power for a 12" or 13" prop on 3s. I will get an AUW on mine, it should be fine on a 12x6 prop with 3s. It would be nice to have the capability to run 4s for speed runs and 3s for 3d flying without changing a prop.
Sorry, but I did not get the numbers for the 14x7. I would do it now, but I do not have another prop. I might just take your suggestion about the 3025 Hyperion.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 04:05 PM
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My all up weight with the 3s is 61 ounces. I need to ditch the telemetry system soon (it bothers me more than it helps), get a smaller rx and change the ice lite 75amp esc to a hobbywing 80amp esc. This should shed another 2 ounces or so and put me at 59 ounces, 576 watts would be perfect for 58-59 ounce 3d plane, slap a 4s in there for an 1100 watt high speed 3d aerobatic racer!
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 04:31 PM
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On my next yak build I will shoot for around 56 ounces by using hs82 servos instead of hs5085, hobbywing 60 amp esc, hyperion 3020-8 motor and 3s lipo. I'm not sure if a 12" prop will be enough on 3s with this combo though, a 13" is probably better for this motor but a 12" might work due to higher Kv rating, I think it's 1135Kv so there should be about 1900 rpm increase on 3s compared to the 3025-8 motor on 3s. It should be around 13,500 rpm with the 3020-8 on 3s, the 3025-8 on 3s is around 11,600 rpm, stock motor on 4s is around 15,500 rpm.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 06:26 PM
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Have any of you guys tried to modify the CG to make it tail heavy for 3D?
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 07:18 PM
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My first motor was a Hobbypartz Rocket 3025 1130kv and it was a rocket. It pulled over 700 watts with a 12x6. Wish I hadn't burnt it up testing.

Got a few more flights in this afternoon with a 13x8 this time around. Much better power than the 12x6 but it's really hard on the motor in 100 degree heat. I had to swap planes every battery to keep motor temps in check. I think 13x6.5 will be perfect when I can get some more.

Tape a washer or something else to the tail of the plane if you want to experiment with CG. Mine's already light up front with a 3s battery. I'll measure my CG later for grins.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 07:23 PM
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I think the best way to move the CG is to move the battery or esc instead of adding weight to the tail. Otherwise you're just adding dead weight. If you can't move the battery back far enough, you can always cut out a little bit of foam at the back of the battery "tray".
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 07:29 PM
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Do this Yak have bad charasteristic if tail heavy? I like my other 3d's a bit more tail heavy but i dont know why i am afraid to try the yak more tail hevy.

Maybe the brick feeling does not allow me to try
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 07:52 PM
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It seems like there is a wide envelope for CofG, be careful to not push it too far back, it's more prone to stalling and when it does it drops like a brick. It can be a problem on slow landings, especially throttle off landings. I've noticed the wings dont rock before it stalls, it just falls on it's face, usually breaking the fuse.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 09:00 PM
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I had a bought a new motor mount, I'm not even sure why cause I only use the www.smallpartscnc.com mounts for the yak but I noticed they changed the design from the original. I thought I had the v2 (the older mount) but appears it has changed, did this just happen recently? I never bothered to look at the stock mounts cause I prefer the aluminum. I've noticed the aileron horns now come with screws, or at least the replacement wings do. Maybe they will make a prop improvement some day, it really needs to be done. Until then they make a great paper weight or drink mixer, just keep them away from the dog cause they are sharp and will splinter if chewed on. Fortunately there was no damage to the dog but I lost a really great paper weight/ drink mixer.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 10:11 PM
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I just epoxied the control horn and rat-holed the screws.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 10:13 PM
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My yak came with screw on the horns and a motor mount that is like a 1/4 inch thik. I buy early this year i think was late jan or early feb. So i think thise are improvment on newst yak's
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 12:10 AM
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A tail heavy plane is just a band aid to fly 3d. And good plane and a good pilot will normally have a neutral cg for 3d. If you go tail heavy then some stall maneuvers might be a little easier, but the plane will fly crappy. It's better just to practice with it neutral and have good flight. I know it's tempting to move it back, but it's not good. This plane will still do 3d with the stock setup and neutral to slightly nose heavy cg.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 01:04 AM
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@srt8madness

I'm not much of a 3D flyer myself, but I know that for my style of flying (more scale/pattern), a tail heavy plane just doesn't feel good to my fingers. I understand the reasoning that many want a tail heavy plane, but I agree with you in that a neutral CG makes more sense overall. I think certain airframes handle better or worse at different center points of gravity. But I guess in the end it's all up to the pilot.

By the way, those new control horns look like a much better design. I'll have to upgrade to some of those.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 10:00 AM
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Measured my balance point and it's right at 4 5/8" from the leading edge of wing next to the fuse with a 3s 2200 in it.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 12:43 PM
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Does anyone know when the fuse's will be in stock, or how to find out?
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Does anyone know when the fuse's will be in stock, or how to find out?
Read the last and 4th to last posts on this page- http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...83590&page=500
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 04:55 PM
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I can't find any fuselages for sale online or at my local hobby shops. I feel very lucky I found one a few days ago. I have a feeling they won't be back in stock for a few months. I did find a hyperion 3020-8 motor in stock at my lhs, just need esc now, 3s yak should be ready in a week or so.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 05:22 PM
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slo-fly, sent you a PM
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 05:49 PM
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I anticipated this and ordered a complete spare airframe as soon as the parts were showing in stock. I hope I don't need it for a while.
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 10:00 PM
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I went ahead and backordered a fuse from my lhs, the employee said hh will have fuses in stock in 2 days, hopefully he's right!
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 10:48 PM
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My lhs tell me the same for every item is not instore. I know you guys on USA continental are more professional on that matter. Here in PR is like no other option. That is why all serius "BORICUAS" just order online and every lhs are in the black list of death
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 09:23 AM
ledpole
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What size battery you flying in Carbon Z Yak?

got a YAK 54 & know it calls for 2800mAh 4S 30C. I think the E-Flite batterys are way overpriced. Have friends flying a HobbyPartz SkyLipo 4S 3000mAh 30C but they have been out of stock for over 2 months. Found a Turnegy Nano 4S 2650mAh 35-70C & Turnegy Nano 4S 3000mAh 25-50C. Will be using mostly for sport flying. Have several flat wing foamies to learn 3D with.
What are you using now & are you happy with the performance? Thanks for your expertise.
Thats what really great about the people on this site. You save all of us time and expenses and usually give great advice from someone who has already done it. Being new to electrics have more questions than answers right now..
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 10:53 AM
certified crash instructor
Scottsdale Arizona
Joined Dec 2009
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I just wanted to give everybody a heads up, fuses are back instock according to hh website. Order them while you can!
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 11:08 AM
Play tetris with my english
DaxFX's Avatar
Puerto Rico, San Juan
Joined May 2008
2,711 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledpole View Post
got a YAK 54 & know it calls for 2800mAh 4S 30C. I think the E-Flite batterys are way overpriced. Have friends flying a HobbyPartz SkyLipo 4S 3000mAh 30C but they have been out of stock for over 2 months. Found a Turnegy Nano 4S 2650mAh 35-70C & Turnegy Nano 4S 3000mAh 25-50C. Will be using mostly for sport flying. Have several flat wing foamies to learn 3D with.
What are you using now & are you happy with the performance? Thanks for your expertise.
Thats what really great about the people on this site. You save all of us time and expenses and usually give great advice from someone who has already done it. Being new to electrics have more questions than answers right now..
Those are the 2 batteries i do have. Nano 2650 and sky 3000. I have to admit i like most the nano. It give her very good punch and is like 70g lighter

With both i fly more or less the same time. Im not pushing my yak to hard 3d. Just sporty and ligh 3d. For hardcorr my epp's
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 05:21 PM
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DaxFX's Avatar
Puerto Rico, San Juan
Joined May 2008
2,711 Posts
Hey guys i send a CZ Yak request to pheonix sim. and they reply to me....


Dear Sir

Thank you for your model request, it has been forwarded to our modelling team and added to our schedule.

Best Regards

Phoenix Support
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 06:47 PM
TakeOff=optional,Landing= Must
fg1972's Avatar
Australia, Melbourne
Joined Jul 2010
427 Posts
Great idea trying to get the yak on Phoenix.
It's such a popular plane.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 08:12 PM
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Joined Sep 2010
4,060 Posts
RealFlight has a great Yak already. I bought Phoenix because it supposedly had lots of planes available and was even associated with Horizon. Then I finally bought RealFlight and found that it had almost every plane I own available for it either built in or on the swap pages. I like some things about Phoenix, but was really disappointed in the number of planes available that we normally see at our local rc fields.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 08:20 PM
can't buy vaporware
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
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I've received similar messages from Phoenix as DaxFX, and am tempted by realflite for the reasons bobly points out.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 10:54 AM
Happy Habu Hustler
Joined May 2012
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I find it astounding that Phoenix doesn't already have a Carbon-Z Yak model.

The RealFlight Yak is a large-scale model. I have no idea how it compares to the Carbon-Z but it's fun to fly.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinrc View Post
I find it astounding that Phoenix doesn't already have a Carbon-Z Yak model.

The RealFlight Yak is a large-scale model. I have no idea how it compares to the Carbon-Z but it's fun to fly.
The one built in real flight is different. The Carbon Z is available in the swap pages. You can make it fly just like your real carbon Z and graphics are identical.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 01:51 PM
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Puerto Rico, San Juan
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobly View Post
The one built in real flight is different. The Carbon Z is available in the swap pages. You can make it fly just like your real carbon Z and graphics are identical.
Is only for G5.5
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 06:03 PM
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United States, MD, Dundalk
Joined Feb 2009
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The carbon Z from the swap pages flys fine in rf6. I tweaked it a little bit to my liking but then again I weak pretty much all of them.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxFX View Post
Is only for G5.5
That's what I have - won't it work with other versions? I use several planes that said they were for different versions.
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