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Old Jul 29, 2011, 09:18 PM
Kyle
Barrie
Joined Jun 2008
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Thanks guys
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 03:28 PM
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United States, FL, Largo
Joined Aug 2010
13 Posts
Found the carbon z now on G5.5 for download.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 09:53 PM
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Gold Coast Coolangata, Australia
Joined Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by Donzee View Post
Found the carbon z now on G5.5 for download.
Ya, this works great on Realflight 5.5. Download it at;

http://knifeedge.com/forums/download...=file&id=15430

Only thing is he's used a default 12x10 prop so it's a real speed demon, lol! Just need to edit it later to a 12x6 or 13x4 to make it more realistic. Very good sim model (and free!) imho.

cheers,
TomC
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 11:48 AM
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Joined Sep 2010
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Questions for the carbon z experts

Here's the story. Bought a slightly used carbon z from a private owner yesterday. Probably in over my head, but wanted to see what the experts thought. I'm pretty new to rc, started last winter after a lot of sim time. Have crashed a bunch of um planes in the meantime. Present state of abilities is that I regularly fly a um Sukhoi, Beast, Sbach, polecat, t28 and parkflyer size t28, Apprentice, Wildcat, and HK Pitts special that's hopped up a bit. I can now fly all of these without crashing as long as I don't overextend my reflexes and abilities. I can do basic rolls, loops, basic inverted passes and figure 8 patterns without worrying about crashing, but make no claims to being anything more than an midstage to advanced beginner. I do cheat and fly with expo on the trickier of these planes. I'm "old" and reflexes are not what they used to be, but am doing as well or better than I figured I might before starting this addiction.
Ok, what do you all think, can I tone this thing down and dump in a bunch of expo and keep it in no more than 1 or 2 pieces or should I just resell or put it up until I'm further along. Only thing I have done so far is programmed transmitter and I did pick up a 13x4 prop thinking it might be good to help it fly better at slower speeds. I do not feel confident that I could handle it at 70 mph, but actually feel confident that I can fly it at more reasonable speeds.
Any input appreciated.
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 11:58 AM
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GetSome!'s Avatar
United States, CA, Roseville
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by bobly View Post
Here's the story. Bought a slightly used carbon z from a private owner yesterday. Probably in over my head, but wanted to see what the experts thought. I'm pretty new to rc, started last winter after a lot of sim time. Have crashed a bunch of um planes in the meantime. Present state of abilities is that I regularly fly a um Sukhoi, Beast, Sbach, polecat, t28 and parkflyer size t28, Apprentice, Wildcat, and HK Pitts special that's hopped up a bit. I can now fly all of these without crashing as long as I don't overextend my reflexes and abilities. I can do basic rolls, loops, basic inverted passes and figure 8 patterns without worrying about crashing, but make no claims to being anything more than an midstage to advanced beginner. I do cheat and fly with expo on the trickier of these planes. I'm "old" and reflexes are not what they used to be, but am doing as well or better than I figured I might before starting this addiction.
Ok, what do you all think, can I tone this thing down and dump in a bunch of expo and keep it in no more than 1 or 2 pieces or should I just resell or put it up until I'm further along. Only thing I have done so far is programmed transmitter and I did pick up a 13x4 prop thinking it might be good to help it fly better at slower speeds. I do not feel confident that I could handle it at 70 mph, but actually feel confident that I can fly it at more reasonable speeds.
Any input appreciated.
The yak is easier to fly than of those micros as long as its on low rates. you did the right thing getting the 13x4 to slow it down. Fly it...I held off on flying mine at first and when i did finally do it, I wished I would have done it sooner. Its a really eazy plane to fly on low rates.

tony
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tonytonso View Post
The yak is easier to fly than of those micros as long as its on low rates. you did the right thing getting the 13x4 to slow it down. Fly it...I held off on flying mine at first and when i did finally do it, I wished I would have done it sooner. Its a really eazy plane to fly on low rates.

tony
Thanks for the input. The Beast and the Sbach are what made me want to get this one. I fly them (mostly the Sbach since it came out) almost everyday in my yard and have got to the point that when I go to a bigger field, the Sbach is the only thing I want to fly because my bigger planes feel like bricks with a motor after flying the Sbach for a month or so. I only know two guys that have a Carbon z and one of them could do 3d with a brick and a rubber band motor so anything is easy to him and the other is somewhere near my level and has crashed his Carbon z 4 times but is likely a bit less cautious and much younger than I am. I sort of think he has tried to progress too much in too little time. I am in no hurry to do anything more than fly the Carbon z around like I would my other planes - 3d or extreme areobatics are not in my plan. Maybe a waste, but for the price I paid I just couldn't resist. The younger on these two claims that it is really hard to land - any comment on this?
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 01:47 PM
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United States, FL, Orlando
Joined Feb 2004
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On low rates, the CZ YAK will be easier, and more stable to fly than the T-28. When I first flew mine, I didn't use the manual specifications for set up, I just visually set up the deflections to be minimum for all surfaces. It doesn't take much deflection for aerobatic flight. Once you are comfortable, increase throws. At 100% throws, it is a wild machine..

As far as landing, this thing will absolutely float in, and so you need a length of runway to bring her in. Bigger wheels are a must for grass. Dave Brown micro light 3.25 inch are perfect as a replacement on the stock landing gear.
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 05:23 PM
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Pennsylvania
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The Yak is a good machine, when setup right, and with low rates, it is nice and stable at slow speeds, tracks well at higher speeds, powerful enough to get into or out of trouble, and big enough to see well. It is perectly content flying simple aerobatics that you are accustomed to, and will fly them easier than with your other planes. IMO the stock gear is fine for all but the thickest grass, and you already are handling the single biggest problem it has, the defective stock prop. The key is to take your time, and set it up right.

Go over every hinge, every horn, and every throw to make sure none are loose. Make sure that all surfaces are centered, and have the exact same deflection in both directions, especially the ailerons, and that the left and right ailerons both have the same travel, this is adjusted by the end points on your transmitter. Make sure all servos are perpendicular to the surface with subtrim or if they are out by a lot, reposition the servo arms a tooth over if needed, then adjust the linkages to center them. Starting out, set the high rate throws and CG per the manual with throws at 100%, it has alot of throw, and you don't want to use it till you grow into the plane, but it provides a decent baseline. From there set the low rates with 20% elevator, 25% aileron, and 50% rudder with 25% expo across the board, set high rates at 30% elevator, 40% aileron, and 70% rudder with 40% expo on all surfaces, these will make it about as docile as it can be without neutering it so much you can't fly. This will be a good starting point with more than enough throw for most any simple aerobatic manuver, just be smooth on the sticks, and raise or lower expo and throws as you feel neccesary. If you want to really learn the plane, and progress into 3D and post stall flight, buy a simple EPP profile foamie of at least 30" wingspan, The Twisted hobbies Xtra slick, or 3D hobby shop Extra 330SC. Fly it, crash it, and learn to hold hovers and harriers with it, once you are very comfortable, raise the rates on the Yak, and work your way into those manuvers with it.
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 06:46 PM
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Is this the right prop?

First off, thanks for the feedback. Thus far everything sounds really reasonable and sensible. I really appreciate this kind of feedback. Now, on the prop. The one I picked up is marked APC 13 X 4 E (thin electric 3d fun fly - not for gas engines). When I got it out I find that the stock shaft hole is too small, but does appear to have the proper adapter for the precision hole in the back side of the prop. I assume I just drill out the center part and put the adpater in the back. There is also a larger cut out in the front which appears to be the same size as the one in back for the adapter - just don't worry about it?? Anyway, if someone can let me know if I have the right prop or are there more models of the 13x4 apc? Thanks in advance. If I can have one more question - I read in an earlier post where at least in static tests this prop pulled more amps than the stock prop. Will it do this in flight and shorten flight times even more? I had thought it might be easier to swing and make for longer flight times - but that's probably what I get for thinking.
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 07:02 PM
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United States, CA, Roseville
Joined Jan 2011
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Thats the right prop, the thin electric. the one you dont want is the "slow flyer." also, you dont want the stock prop, too unbalanced. drill it out the 13x4 and rip it
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 09:02 PM
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xxxcellarator's Avatar
Toronto, Canada
Joined Nov 2009
654 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobly View Post
First off, thanks for the feedback. Thus far everything sounds really reasonable and sensible. I really appreciate this kind of feedback. Now, on the prop. The one I picked up is marked APC 13 X 4 E (thin electric 3d fun fly - not for gas engines). When I got it out I find that the stock shaft hole is too small, but does appear to have the proper adapter for the precision hole in the back side of the prop. I assume I just drill out the center part and put the adpater in the back. There is also a larger cut out in the front which appears to be the same size as the one in back for the adapter - just don't worry about it?? Anyway, if someone can let me know if I have the right prop or are there more models of the 13x4 apc? Thanks in advance. If I can have one more question - I read in an earlier post where at least in static tests this prop pulled more amps than the stock prop. Will it do this in flight and shorten flight times even more? I had thought it might be easier to swing and make for longer flight times - but that's probably what I get for thinking.
Longevity of flight (battery consumption) is determined by whether you use the prop for what it was intended for or not.

If you fly the plane slowly at 1/3 throttle (that's all it takes with the 13x4), the battery will last longer than it would with a 12x6 trying to maintain the same speed, because the 13inch prop does not waist any energy trying to drag the wait at slow speed. The 12inch prop on the other hand needs to spin a little faster to produce the proper amount of thrust. This applies even more so when performing 3D moves like hovering, where the high pitch of the 12x6 prop is a waist since the plane isn't even going anywhere.

The opposite is true if you fly the plane with the 13x4 prop at full speed. The 13inch prop will produce a lot of unnecessary thrust, since not much is needed in order to reach top speed (only about 1/2 thrust to weight ratio is sufficient). Therefore having the 13inch prop producing 6 times the needed thrust to reach top speed is a waste. This is where the 12x6 is a better option.

*NOTE: keep in mind I'm speaking to the extremes. Both props are very good. The 13inch prop has pretty decent top speed and the 12inch prop can also produce pretty good thrust. The 12x6 is actually a better overall performer.
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 09:11 PM
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United States, GA, Newnan
Joined Aug 2010
1,107 Posts
WHAT the devil is going on here???!

Fellas as a nitro guy kinda new to electrons, appreciate some advice & info...


Ok my CZ motor is making a HORRIBLE racket at full throttle- and I'm trying to find out why.

Here's the deal...I"ve been trying the 13x4E props (I ALWAYS balance), I personally can't tell a huge diff vs the stock prop....HOWEVER...the runway's a 1/2" closer on the 13x4. Ok, I've bounced a few x-wind landings and chipped a few of the 13" props.

Now my q is....this racket...can it be caused by a bent collet? Eg- I take prop & collet totally off...run the motor bare, idle to full throttle...the shaft looks totally straight & true.

I took an old prop & sawed off both blades, so I'd have a hub that the collet could tighten to. Ok here what happens: low rpm, collet nut etc look true...half throttle, bad vibes...go on up to full throttle the vibes seem to disappear...????

So what's up?? If the collet aint true, wouldn't it show as being out-of-round at any and all rpms???

Which leads me to...bearings...? The motor, with nothing on the shaft, running on the bench at full throttle for maybe 30 sec, shows to be 125*F...I mean it's hot to the touch...is this a normal bench temp w/ nothing on the shaft??

Best I can gues is that either the collet's out of true, or the bearings are failing...anything I may have missed??


thx for the help!!!
Jeff
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 09:28 PM
Flippin Multirotors
Get Real's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Feb 2006
4,993 Posts
Was the spinner back plate used during the troubleshooting?
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 09:38 PM
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United States, GA, Newnan
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Originally Posted by Get Real View Post
Was the spinner back plate used during the troubleshooting?


Yep, needed so that collet nut can snug to the motor shaft. Using a prop hub w/ blades sawed off, sanded down to be a perfectly round hub (hence no source of vibes).

Red stock b/p in good shape w/ no cracks/chips etc
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Old Jul 31, 2011, 10:02 PM
Flippin Multirotors
Get Real's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Feb 2006
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I added a extra cone washer recently on the prop adapter so i could actually use a prop without the spinner. Early on i found out at the field apc e props wouldnt work without an extra washer and the spinner back plate and spinners or the back plate can be a cause for vibration(would be nice if the threads on the collet ran further back).. i almost never run spinners anymore.. saves a little weight,one less thing to buy,and most important one less potential source for vibration. Other than the spinner or back plate,4s on a 1000kv outrunner is some high rpm for an e prop.. possibly flexing at a certain rpm range might possibly be causing it as well but im guessing there. Ive had similar and larger size prop cavitation at high rpm and it makes a lot of racket and sounds similar to what your describing. Usually at hover to full throttle then it dissipates when a plane gains momentum and the load on the prop drops.

BTW.. on heat during wattmeter run ups etc. Without any airflow or even with a prop the motor will get pretty hot. Without the prop theres zero airflow to cool,with the prop and holding a plane stationary the load on the motor is higher than when its flying and will get hotter as well then flying usually in the same ambient temps.
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Last edited by Get Real; Jul 31, 2011 at 10:09 PM.
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