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Old Oct 13, 2010, 08:32 AM
0.9g retracts
Yellow Baron's Avatar
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Zögling Primary Glider in peanut scale

I had some spare balsa sticks and a brick laying around, so I decided to build something . For a few weeks now I have wanted to build a small glider I could tow with my J-3 that has been outfitted with the mustang motor (I think there's enough power there, should be), and one that I could "slope" soar off the roof of the park's pavilion.

I found good detail and size 3-views of the Zögling and decided to build it, I'm not expecting super performance (if I'm real lucky it might be as good as the original), more something to practice towing and being towed, with some gliding on the side. I have the fuselage, tail feathers, one wing, and more of the other wing done. By far the hardest part was framing the wings and making the ribs (3 1/16" sticks laminated and sanded to get a basic airfoil). I'm also going to make the enclosed cockpit that was used one some of the gliders.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 02:42 PM
Still AWD, Subaru
St.Louis
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COOL!

I think there is a good market for some micro gliders.

Looking forward to your flight.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 09:13 PM
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Nice idea!

On some small model towing setups people have used bits of velcro to act as the release, towing with the velcro in sheer and then pulling up to release so the velcro peeled off the glider.

I think that would be too tough for something this small. Any ideas on the release?

I've got one thought, but I think it is probably marginal.

If I can find pix I might try this myself. I've to plans around for a Northrup primary model and I will look for others. Hmm... I've got the Martin Simons' books to browse through

Pete
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 06:24 AM
0.9g retracts
Yellow Baron's Avatar
3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
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Got the wings and tail feathers covered, radio gear installed, rigged, and carbon pushrods hooked up. I now have to figure out the enclosed fuselage. I'm also thinking a smaller battery would help reduce weight even more (I don't NEED 120Mah on a glider this size), I have some spare 50Mah lipo cells hanging around, does anyone know the polarity on the brick's lead? I assume the black is negative.

Shawn,
This is the first of a series of gliders I hope I'm thinking about a 24" Bowlus Baby Albatross next.

Pete,
I have a hook of 1/32" music wire that I'm going to use to tow for now, it might not work, but it also doubles as a landing skid
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 06:45 AM
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I found my Northrop plans, and it looks like it was a copy of the Zögling.

I'm not worried about hooking up to the tug, but about being able to release. I think I will try some sort of weighted hook that will drop out if there is no tension on the line, or maybe a hook that is held in place by the drag of a streamer of some sort so that if the airspeed gets slow enough it will fall out.

Actually I would be more than happy to just hi-start it with some 1/8th rubber and some light monofilament. Twenty feet of rubber and a hundred feet of gossamer monofil should get me as high as I need to find a thermal if there is one around.

Just some thoughts for now.

BTW. I have definite ideas about making a bunch of small gliders for Vapor and AR 6400 gear.

The pictures are my first attempts at a Vampyr, the first glider to stay aloft for over an hour. I'm going to 1/64th ply sides to make more room for the AR 6400. Also, photos show that the rear of the fuse started its taper right after the bulkhead behind the pilot. The Vampyr landed on three modified soccer balls used as wheels, and I have some wooden beads of just the right size, but I think I will just saw them in half and glue them on rather than bother with actually having them roll!

I also want to make a Bowlus Baby Albatross and am planning to try to make a fuse mold for it. The wing is the same as the Grunau Baby which is another that I want to try.

I think the AR 6400 can probably work okay with gliders as big as 40 inch span as long as we are not talking about discus launch. Mostly I want to stick to small stuff, but I also want things that can really fly. 40 inch span is still pretty small for a glider and also pretty light.

Meanwhile, I am buried in clutter that has to go before I can seriously build.

Pete
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 09:03 AM
Still AWD, Subaru
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I'd love to see a Habicht for the ar6400
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 10:03 AM
0.9g retracts
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Pete,

My idea was to have the tow pilot reduce power and just pull up to release, just an idea.

Great minds think alike I just built a simple high start out of some FF rubber and cord I had laying around, nothing fancy or big, but enough to get it higher in the air than I can throw.

The Vampyr looks like a really cool example of early aviation. How much does the ply add to your weight as compared to light weight covering (I'm thinking about planking the fuselage on the Albatross with 1/64")?

40" sounds about right for the limit, and I'd have to say 13" is the limit for the small end So, who's going to try this one http://www.piotrp.de/SZYBOWCE/dszd20.htm ?


I was able to get the 50Mah lipo to work, good bye 120mah monster!
On the subject of the high-start, I noticed my glider has a tendency to roll to the right, which way do I need to warp the wing so it goes straight?
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Baron View Post
Pete,

My idea was to have the tow pilot reduce power and just pull up to release, just an idea.

Great minds think alike I just built a simple high start out of some FF rubber and cord I had laying around, nothing fancy or big, but enough to get it higher in the air than I can throw.

The Vampyr looks like a really cool example of early aviation. How much does the ply add to your weight as compared to light weight covering (I'm thinking about planking the fuselage on the Albatross with 1/64")?

40" sounds about right for the limit, and I'd have to say 13" is the limit for the small end So, who's going to try this one http://www.piotrp.de/SZYBOWCE/dszd20.htm ?


I was able to get the 50Mah lipo to work, good bye 120mah monster!
On the subject of the high-start, I noticed my glider has a tendency to roll to the right, which way do I need to warp the wing so it goes straight?
The original Vampyr was made with ply sides and cloth top and bottom behind the wing. My first fuse used 1/16th balsa, the second 1/32 and the current one is going together with 1/64th ply. I don't think the weight of a tiny fuse hanging off a twenty inch wing is going to have much effect.

I bookmarked the URL. I should look for that in Martin Simons' books.

I'd try to generate less lift in the left wing. (rather than more in the right in case it provokes a stall)

My biggest problem is keeping my building area free of other stuff. I just retired and I've got papers scattered all over the place and books and magazines that have to either get put away or thrown away.

Pete
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 11:16 AM
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USA, OK, Muskogee
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It's a great project and your build there really looks like an old timer type..using up to date guts

For the glider release, a simple idea just struck me. Simple hook arrangement, even as simple as two U shaped parts of a paperclip. One side would be extended of the U shapes, to attach to the aircraft. The glider mounted U is inserted into the nose. The towing aircraft one being on the end of fishing line.
On launch and while flying up to height, the 2 stay hooked together, on slow down of the towing aircraft, the difference in glide will make the glider move forward and release itself.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 11:26 AM
TheyreComingToTakeMeAway!
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you could use tension as a hold/release but i think you would run into problems with it coming out prematurely. why not link it to the elevator so at anything over half-up releases the tow line?
or you could do 1/4 down as release, or even a rudder release.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 01:35 PM
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An excellent idea. You would probably have to use a little down elevator behind a tug since it would be flying a bit faster than the normal speed you would trim the glider for, so half up could probably be used as a release.

In full scale the glider goes up and right on release and the tug goes down and left, so you could actually do a scale like release.

Thanks. If and when I get back to work on this I will probably go that route.

If I build the primary I will probably just use a hi-start, but for the Bowlus Baby Albatross and the Grunau Baby (If I get the far) a tow release would be manditory.

Edit: I think the Vampyr was only flown by bungee launch off the Wasserkuppe, so it should be used for ridge soaring, but I will probably hi-start it. Aero tow would probably be historically WAY to inaccurate.

BTW, in the NY times archives there is a story of the two hour flight made by the Vampyr. Very worth reading if you can find it. Also, I once found a report to NACA on the state of glider flying in Germany outlining all the accomplishments made in the twenties and thirties. I know I saved it, but I think it was on a laptop who's hard disk crashed. Gotta go look for another copy.

Pete
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 02:18 PM
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is there a good website that lists early gliders with 3-views? i want to build an early glider but having trouble finding subjects
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 02:33 PM
Storm Runner guy
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Good thought on the possibility of a U shaped early release..i guess the glider only needs to catch a thermal or something.

Here are a trio of fantastic early German gliders
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Old Oct 15, 2010, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derk View Post
is there a good website that lists early gliders with 3-views? i want to build an early glider but having trouble finding subjects
If you poke around on this web site you will find both free plans and documentation. A lot of the choices that don't say "free plan" have three views of historic gliders. I checked out the Bowlus, which is the Bowlus Baby Albatross. (He designed others, but this was his most popular.)

http://www.scalesoaring.co.uk/

Here's a link that goes right into the vintage doc and plans section of the URL above.

http://www.scalesoaring.co.uk/VINTAG...mentation.html

While the web site below has flying wings of every variety, the URL I have links to the stuff by Lippisch. He was the guy that designed the Me 163 Rocket fighter and also the B-58 Hustler. There are one or two of his experimental gliders and low power airplanes that I would like to build. In fact I have plans by Al Backstrom (sp?) of a powered flying wing by Lippisch.

He was around in the early days of the Wasserkuppe and still built and flew stuff well beyond his years with the B-58. He is considered the father of the delta wing.

http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/L...urflugels.html

I've got a three book set by Martin Simons that lists and has three views of every glider from the 1920's to about 2000. The first volume has the best history of early gliding there is, outside of the Wright Brothers and the Lillienthal brothers and their contemporaries.

There is a great video from an old Pathe news reel on the first site and it is of Harald Penrose's glider. I would love to pry that loose for my collection. Penrose was a test pilot for most of his life, but he also flew gliders and small airplanes for his own pleasure and wrote many books on the subject.

Edit: I have to watch myself. I downloaded a bunch of pages on the Penrose Pegasus. I'll probably never build it, but I am a Harald Penrose fan, having read a couple of his books.

Pete
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Old Oct 15, 2010, 09:02 AM
0.9g retracts
Yellow Baron's Avatar
3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
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Seeing as I'm trying to keep this glider simple and light (and it's already done for the most part), I'm going to use what I have already installed on it, if it works, it works, if it doesn't, then it's a "highstart" only plane.

Great links there Pete!
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