A cheater brought the thrust up from 800g to 1020g
Probably not a big enough cheater area anyway, so I will enlarge that a bit.
Just a bit more... and then on to opening out the exhaust a fair amount...

...

Hmmmm, I am not sure what happened....

I made the cheater LARGER - not by a lot, but maybe 10% to 20%, just what could fit there neatly still.
Thrust test result went DOWN!! From 1020g back to 840g area.

Weird is that if I put my hand over one of the main inlets, you feel good suction, but cupping over the Cheater it is not much at all. The cheater might be 30% of the main inlet size...???... but it doesn't feel like that in suction.

I had also covered up the underbody 'battery hatch grille' to be a closed flat panel (instead of the stock open slots it has), so I opened that up and it regained 50g of thrust. That shows it is (was) grabbing a bit of air from that source before too... but giving it back still didn't get it back to the prior 1020g Thrust.

I am not sure where it went!!

Originally Posted by PeterVRC

Hmmmm, I am not sure what happened....

I made the cheater LARGER - not by a lot, but maybe 10% to 20%, just what could fit there neatly still.
Thrust test result went DOWN!! From 1020g back to 840g area.

Weird is that if I put my hand over one of the main inlets, you feel good suction, but cupping over the Cheater it is not much at all. The cheater might be 30% of the main inlet size...???... but it doesn't feel like that in suction.

I had also covered up the underbody 'battery hatch grille' to be a closed flat panel (instead of the stock open slots it has), so I opened that up and it regained 50g of thrust. That shows it is (was) grabbing a bit of air from that source before too... but giving it back still didn't get it back to the prior 1020g Thrust.

I am not sure where it went!!

I'm very impressed with these two setups

HK T-45 cs10 fan 6s BL-32 motor 6s 3000 Who needs a turbine. (4 min 48 sec)

T45 Clip 001 (2 min 0 sec)

Peter where is the video of yours, how does the performance compare to these ones

Those two are 'psycho' power. Would be 1500W or more (possibly even towards 2000w). A BL32 on 6S in a CS10.
Not more normal 800W to 1000W areas.
So they could still lose a lot in ducting and not even care!

They must at least be quite stunted down from their static max number possible, or the CS10 would explode at those values anyway. 6S 3000kv is 53k AFTER efficiency loss, and a CS10 will blow by 45k anyway. So that gives a clue as to how much of their ability is stunted in those - but it is the only way to have X amount left. (eg 40k - 43K rpm by their in-plane use).

Even the Lander 6S 2200kv 1200W alloy 10 blade would look 'weak' compared to those!

And you will never get anything near that in 4S. And would need unusable KV in 5S even.... pretty well not possible either (would need to be 3500kv and far more Amps... which no battery could supply really).

I am using a $30 combo.... $55 all up with battery..... and don't expect, or want to, match those. So they are pretty irrelevant really. But I do want to get the maximum % of thrust that it can get on the bench.... which 1.2Kg thrust would be fine in this.

I have changed up to a L2855-2300kv motor (instead of 2100kv) to grab a bit more capability (5S used).....

Originally Posted by PeterVRC

Those two are 'psycho' power. Would be 1500W or more (possibly even towards 2000w). A BL32 on 6S in a CS10.
Not more normal 800W to 1000W areas.
So they could still lose a lot in ducting and not even care!

They must at least be quite stunted down from their static max number possible, or the CS10 would explode at those values anyway. 6S 3000kv is 53k AFTER efficiency loss, and a CS10 will blow by 45k anyway. So that gives a clue as to how much of their ability is stunted in those - but it is the only way to have X amount left. (eg 40k - 43K rpm by their in-plane use).

Even the Lander 6S 2200kv 1200W alloy 10 blade would look 'weak' compared to those!

And you will never get anything near that in 4S. And would need unusable KV in 5S even.... pretty well not possible either (would need to be 3500kv and far more Amps... which no battery could supply really).

I am using a $30 combo.... $55 all up with battery..... and don't expect, or want to, match those. So they are pretty irrelevant really. But I do want to get the maximum % of thrust that it can get on the bench.... which 1.2Kg thrust would be fine in this.

I have changed up to a L2855-2300kv motor (instead of 2100kv) to grab a bit more capability (5S used).....

The BL32 clip is a 6s setup but the T451 clip is : HK 64mm T45 with 70mm10blade HK alloy fan 3000Kv on Nano 3850mAh 4s 65-120c
84 Amps 1184Watts

T45 1 Clip 001 (3 min 15 sec)

I would say Impressive for a 4s setup
Thanks for the info Peter

84A 1180W.... 3000kv.... but only 4S
So the 6S would be a LOT LOT more!
Plus the BL32 can do it, so it won't be 'weaker' due to a lacking motor.
If 14.8v can do 84A then 22.2v must do well over 100A. = 2200W
Seeing they are the same fan and same KV motor
Heading to near double the 4S's power.

That is IF it could get that higher airflow out.....
It wouldn't, so the power will be lower.
I would guess 1400w - 1500w and Amps lower too, 75A area.

The end result is a much more efficient power system for the 6S.
Using Volts instead of Amps - even lower Amps - to get even a bit higher power than the 4S. Which means easier battery load = less hot = more life = can use lower C which means cheaper too.

You shouldn't use lower volts/high amps to reach a target.
I would say:
4S to 800W max
5S to 1000W or so max
then on to
6S.... and the sooner you move to higher volts the better anyway.

Originally Posted by PeterVRC

84A 1180W.... 3000kv.... but only 4S
So the 6S would be a LOT LOT more!
Plus the BL32 can do it, so it won't be 'weaker' due to a lacking motor.
If 14.8v can do 84A then 22.2v must do well over 100A. = 2200W
Seeing they are the same fan and same KV motor
Heading to near double the 4S's power.

That is IF it could get that higher airflow out.....
It wouldn't, so the power will be lower.
I would guess 1400w - 1500w and Amps lower too, 75A area.

The end result is a much more efficient power system for the 6S.
Using Volts instead of Amps - even lower Amps - to get even a bit higher power than the 4S. Which means easier battery load = less hot = more life = can use lower C which means cheaper too.

You shouldn't use lower volts/high amps to reach a target.
I would say:
4S to 800W max
5S to 1000W or so max
then on to
6S.... and the sooner you move to higher volts the better anyway.

it's easy to talk about these kinds of power systems, but at some point the integrity of the airframe comes crushing down - literally - the thin foam intakes will fold in on themselves at 2000 watts. You need some serious reinforcing of the entire forward ducting to maintain structural integrity at those power levels.

Seems the jets fold in on themselves because of an unplanned get-together with the ground more often than structural failure because of suction ...

Yeah, but that is the power system they HAVE thrown into it. 2000W 'capable'.... but would not be realised in the T-45.
And then there is WHAT came out of it.... likely to be WAY less than the theoretical that combo could do. Just because the T-45 has poor inlets, so they would HAVE to add cheaters for it to go as fast as it does, and that means no issue with sidewalls etc as it would be right in front of the fan under the wing anyway.... and even then it would not be enough airflow to realise the full power capability of it. Thus why I am guessing 1400w in the plane and not the 2000w area it could do on a bench.
Put that all into a Habu and then it would run at a much higher power level.

And THEN.... 1400W doesn't translate linearly to performance, so the difference to the 1180W 4S setup would not be huge (10kph? 15?).... but its best factor would be the far more efficient system, and far easier battery life.

Throw that 6S combo in with NO cheater....... well then I guess the ducting would implode! LOL. Seeing this T-45 is all very thin walled.
At 850W there was no sign of any strength issue... LOL.. Next is 950W area.
And if it flies well, then I will move it up to 6S and 1200W or so.

Originally Posted by PeterVRC

Yeah, but that is the power system they HAVE thrown into it. 2000W 'capable'.... but would not be realised in the T-45.
And then there is WHAT came out of it.... likely to be WAY less than the theoretical that combo could do. Just because the T-45 has poor inlets, so they would HAVE to add cheaters for it to go as fast as it does, and that means no issue with sidewalls etc as it would be right in front of the fan under the wing anyway.... and even then it would not be enough airflow to realise the full power capability of it. Thus why I am guessing 1400w in the plane and not the 2000w area it could do on a bench.
Put that all into a Habu and then it would run at a much higher power level.

And THEN.... 1400W doesn't translate linearly to performance, so the difference to the 1180W 4S setup would not be huge (10kph? 15?).... but its best factor would be the far more efficient system, and far easier battery life.

Throw that 6S combo in with NO cheater....... well then I guess the ducting would implode! LOL. Seeing this T-45 is all very thin walled.
At 850W there was no sign of any strength issue... LOL.. Next is 950W area.
And if it flies well, then I will move it up to 6S and 1200W or so.

Hi peter, I'm not really sure where you get your info from but the BL32 he's using in the 6s setup is 2150kv By the way what formula do you use to determine the outlet size?

The video said 3000kv.... which at those power levels it would run at means SMOKIN! But it did look fast too! hehe
But 2150kv sounds more usable!!
Though then it is only 1100/1200w area. (I think I am at about 1300w area on some HET 2200kv 6S CS10's I have)

Originally Posted by PeterVRC

The video said 3000kv.... which at those power levels it would run at means SMOKIN! But it did look fast too! hehe
But 2150kv sounds more usable!!
Though then it is only 1100/1200w area. (I think I am at about 1300w area on some HET 2200kv 6S CS10's I have)

it says :

Published on Sep 2, 2012

My Hobby king T-45 with a 70m cs10 fan, 6s BL-32 motor, 6s 3000 nano tech lipo, a 80a esc, and 2 servos, Who needs a turbine, Turn the sound up and enjoy.

not 3000kv LOL

DOH, LOL
Well at least I have some clues what a 6S setup should act like..... (if I do that after the 5S 2300kv).

Originally Posted by PeterVRC

DOH, LOL
Well at least I have some clues what a 6S setup should act like..... (if I do that after the 5S 2300kv).

My set up is bl 32, cs 10, 3300 nano tech lipo its 66amps at 1366 watts

HK T-45 cs10 fan 6s BL-32 motor 6s 3000 Who needs a turbine. (4 min 48 sec)

I forgot how good these T45 airframes sound, especially now with the popularity of the CS 10blade fans. I sold my 64mm version because i found it was a little too stable and predictable, a little too easy to fly

Might just have to get another one and throw a 1700watt power system in it