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Old Oct 05, 2010, 05:34 PM
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4 point hydro 3 point hydro

Wparsons this Is for you..You told me the Miss Elam. Ive been talking about right along.Is not a 3 point hydro?Well here you go.You asked If I wanted to get Into It about the two hull's?Well here's the 4 point video crashing. See the difference between a 4 point hydro hull an the three point Miss Elam.

This Is a 4 point hydro freeze the frame at 16 second's Your again wrong at what a 4 point actually Is!!!!! :
www.hydros.us 4 Point ELAM Hydroplane Crash (1 min 36 sec)

Also the same full size Hydro same hull as our's Is also a 3 point Hydro!!!
The Elam Plus 4 point Hydro
ELAM Plus 4 Point Unlimited Hydroplane (1 min 22 sec)

That's not my def.. mind you but there's the Miss Elam Both scorpion an myself own are In fact 3 point Hydro's!!!!!!!!Lol....Right OFF A PROBOAT ORDER PAGE...



Here's a 3 point hydro defefinition: An RC boat hull design found in some RC powerboats is the hydroplane hull. Unlike the monohull, the hydroplane hull design has more than one surface in contact with the water. This design creates space for trapped air under the boat that helps to lift it up out of the water so that there is less drag (less hull touching the water) and the boat can acheive higher speeds.

The 3-point hydro, catamaran, tunnel hull, and outrigger are RC powerboats featuring a hydroplane hull design and known for speed. Outriggers are the fastest of the hydroplane hull designs but the trickiest to handle. Catamarans and tunnel hulls provide a better balance of speed and handling for the beginning racer.

AquaCraft Top Speed 2 features a tunnel hull hydroplane design. Pro Boat Miss Llumar is a nitro hydroplane with the 3-point hydro hull and the Pro Boat Miss Elam (Buy Direct) is another example of a hydroplane hull. Pro Boat Apache (Buy Direct) and the Pro Boat Blackjack 26 Brushless (Buy Direct) are electric catamarans. Dumas Hawk Hydroplane 7.5 is an example of an RC outrigger.
Also Known As: hydro
RC Boat Terms Related to Hydroplane

* Flat-Bottom
* Monohull
* Airboat



I need to use your line again!!!!!I love It when people lead others down the wrong path with wrong Info.....

I'm getting bent out of shape over it simply because he's giving bad information, and I don't like to see people lead down the wrong path.HAHAHAHA "CLASSIC"

Gee also watching both vids over again!!Dont look like much of those front sponsons touch water !!!!!LOL...Also maybe 2 dozen other vids Ive just watched on the 3 pointer's do either.....
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 07:13 PM
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Wparson

As a gentleman I sent you a very friendly Pm..Asking you politely If you'd like to discuss again. Where I'm miss leading an giving people bad Info??You so Abruptly clicked off!!!!If you do care to Have a further discussion on 4 point Hydro's an 3 Point Hydro's.Please contact me at any time!!!LOL...On this thread please.Or If you wish to keep It Prvt thats fine as well.
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 08:28 PM
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I was trying to hear the description when he said at 0:36, "it has apparently 4 riding contact points...........two sponsons..............and blah, blah, blah.....???? cant hear it due to the boat. Wonder what he was saying?
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 08:45 PM
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Saying one sponson in the front two sponsons in the back and the fourth is the prop.
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 08:55 PM
I feel the need for speed!
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OK, so then what the heck is my Elam.................the vid is of an Elam and its a four...............im confused. I know Stringflys UL1 is a three cuz i saw it run...............two front sponsons and the prop............sometimes just the prop
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 09:17 PM
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Yes scorp

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion1 View Post
OK, so then what the heck is my Elam.................the vid is of an Elam and its a four...............im confused. I know Stringflys UL1 is a three cuz i saw it run...............two front sponsons and the prop............sometimes just the prop
The UL1 Is also considered a 3 pointer.It runs the very rear back edge of the front sponsons an the wet area of the transom an off the prop.Scorp our style hydro hull Is also a 3 pointer.Where our style runs the rear outer sponson's ride plates. An half the semi submerged lifting prop nothing else!!! Thats why I do believe I told you the strut you have Is too low!!!!Look at every an all pics you see of a stock Proboat Miss Elam Like mine!!With the fixed Under hull strut!!!The center Of the shaft Is Absolutely level with the bottom of the ride plates!!!!Thats why If you find an read more Info On our hull's Ok...Its Important thats way It needs to be set up .To Use the half Of the blade preciously to be running correctly!
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 09:22 PM
I feel the need for speed!
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OK........so should my front sponsons be touching at all at high speed.......?.....im trying to get this boat set up right................it should freakin' fly with a Neu 1515 on 8s..........
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 09:25 PM
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Click the vid screen ok!!!

...
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 09:28 PM
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Click the second vid screen..

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion1 View Post
I was trying to hear the description when he said at 0:36, "it has apparently 4 riding contact points...........two sponsons..............and blah, blah, blah.....???? cant hear it due to the boat. Wonder what he was saying?
Go to the You -tube link...Read the written comment about the hull an 4 points they wrote there!!!Also freeze the vid at 1:25 while the hulls spinning up!!!See the black ride plates.One On the nose of the canard sponson two On the rear outer sponson's.An the lifting prop again Is the fourth ride plate.In this hull's set up just as Amp said as well.Making It a 4 point Hydro!!!
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 09:38 PM
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No

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Originally Posted by scorpion1 View Post
OK........so should my front sponsons be touching at all at high speed.......?.....im trying to get this boat set up right................it should freakin' fly with a Neu 1515 on 8s..........

Scorp I said It before an I will say It again!!!Absolutely no The front Sponson's should not be making friction an drag on the water at all when running correctly an at full speed!!!!The three things that hull should be riding on again!!!!!!!For the I don't know how many times I need to say It!!!!LOL..Are the 3 riding points that hull was designed to run on!!!!The rear riding outer plates an half the semi-submerged lifting prop that's it!!!!It should be out of the water flying On the cushion of air under the tunnel with the least amount of rear riding plate an the prop.......There Is one more thing several people tried to tell you from the start as well Scorp Ok...That hull size length an weight was not designed for 8 cell!!!I am afraid to make a comment to you!!!But the added weight you put In the Hydro...Will never be able to handle the extra weight for them packs.You will not make the hull get on plain an ride write with 8 cell It should be 4cell!!!I listened to what you said was the weight Its over 2 plus lbs heavier then my Elam.Honestly If you do want to have your boat faster an riding right scratch the 8 cell thought!!!You will undoubtedly see a big difference.
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 10:19 PM
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Guys don't listen to mxz70017, he doesn't know what he's talking about at all...

He just claimed the UL1 rides on the transom, but it doesn't. The transom is way out of the water. Just look at any picture of it running...



He's also claiming the front sponsons shouldn't be touching the water, but they should. If they weren't meant to be in the water, the boat would look more like a tunnel hull. There's a very good reason that sponson shape, accuracy and sharp edges make a HUGE difference in how a hydro runs.

As for the Elam, I wasn't referring to the canard version, I found references to the full size pickle fork being a 4 point because it had rear ride pads.

Not once did I claim that the model miss elam was a 4 point... in fact I said it was a 3 point all along, and that the transom is clear of the water at speed.

Coles notes.... a PROPERLY running modern hydro will be running on the trailing edge of the sponsons, and the prop. No part of the transom will be in the water at all.

Quote:
A hydroplane design attempts to reduce wetted area and drag to the absolute minimum. It was realised many years ago in full size boat design that the propeller could act as a planing surface, or a point of suspension, by using blades shaped in such a way as to create lift as well as thrust. A boat, unless it's jet powered like Bluebird, must have the propeller running in the water - the designer has no choice in this. Dispensing with a rear planing surface and using the propeller instead offers a significant reduction in wetted area and thus drag.

For this reason, prop-riding, three-point (three points of suspension) hydroplanes are the fastest type of racing boat at both full size and model scales. There are essentially two types of model racing hydroplane: scale (or semi-scale) and outrigger.
source (for the second time): http://www.fastelectrics.net/hydroplanes.php

Quote:
Rear Sponsons

Rear sponsons - some people do, some don't. There are pros and cons to fitting them, but, for me, the benefits of having them outweigh the drawbacks. So, what are the arguments for and against?
For:

* Rear sponsons damp down the back of the boat, and keep the boat riding more or less level therefore maintaining a more constant load on the propeller
* They keep the boat level when turning, preventing the propeller from running too deep and bogging down
* They add a large amount of useful extra bouyancy to the hull
* Aesthetics - to me, an outrigger without rear sponsons looks unfinished and unbalanced

Against:

* Extra drag

Rear sponsons are not intended to run in contact with the water all the time - they should only touch the water when the transom drops, for example due to the nose pitching up, or when the boat is turning. Supporting the back of the boat clear of the water and making the hull run flat is the job of the propeller, not the rear sponsons. If you need rear sponsons to make an outrigger run flat (as opposed to "uphill"), then something is wrong with the design or setup of the boat, and fitting rear sponsons is no cure. Try moving the boat's balance point further forward, or swap to a lifting hydro propeller.
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 10:29 PM
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ok here we go!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wparsons View Post
Guys don't listen to mxz70017, he doesn't know what he's talking about at all...

He just claimed the UL1 rides on the transom, but it doesn't. The transom is way out of the water. Just look at any picture of it running...



He's also claiming the front sponsons shouldn't be touching the water, but they should. If they weren't meant to be in the water, the boat would look more like a tunnel hull. There's a very good reason that sponson shape, accuracy and sharp edges make a HUGE difference in how a hydro runs.

source: http://www.progcovers.com/hydro/history.html

other reading: http://www.fastelectrics.net/hydroplanes.php

As for the Elam, I wasn't referring to the canard version, I found references to the full size pickle fork being a 4 point because it had rear ride pads.

Not once did I claim that the model miss elam was a 4 point... in fact I said it was a 3 point all along, and that the transom is clear of the water at speed.

Coles notes.... a PROPERLY running modern hydro will be running on the trailing edge of the sponsons, and the prop. No part of the transom will be in the water at all.


source (for the second time): http://www.fastelectrics.net/hydroplanes.php
Go back an find where you posted it was a 4 point!!Ok listen Im out of here again because of this guy right here!!!!!For the second time .....Have fun Scorp listen to him ok!!!!!Im truely done listening to him tell me I miss interpret things while he on the other hands twisting thing around CYA L8R.....The front sponson's Of a Miss Elam not a UL1 ....He knows all the ole guru Of Hydro's!!!! Have fun gents Im outta here the circus Is Back In town!!!!!!!Heeee Haaaaa..lol.

Now you come back In here after asking me straight up whats the UL1 ride on the prop an no riding plates!!!!!Then you come back an tell me that Is all It runs on After you Mr Twist It posted a link to show an describe how that hull style runs on the rear front sponsons an the wetted are of a flat bottom transom In your own post !!!!!Man you should get your facts straight boy!!!!

Your own words.....There's three points of contact/lift (sponsons and prop), but there's no ride pads in the rear... How does it stay on the water then??? Does it fly on just the prop???

How about the miss vegas deuce, it's a more traditional looking unlimited hydro...

Ok really you can have this boy I am out!!!!
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 11:02 PM
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Outrigger!!!!!LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by wparsons View Post
Guys don't listen to mxz70017, he doesn't know what he's talking about at all...

He just claimed the UL1 rides on the transom, but it doesn't. The transom is way out of the water. Just look at any picture of it running...



He's also claiming the front sponsons shouldn't be touching the water, but they should. If they weren't meant to be in the water, the boat would look more like a tunnel hull. There's a very good reason that sponson shape, accuracy and sharp edges make a HUGE difference in how a hydro runs.

As for the Elam, I wasn't referring to the canard version, I found references to the full size pickle fork being a 4 point because it had rear ride pads.

Not once did I claim that the model miss elam was a 4 point... in fact I said it was a 3 point all along, and that the transom is clear of the water at speed.

Coles notes.... a PROPERLY running modern hydro will be running on the trailing edge of the sponsons, and the prop. No part of the transom will be in the water at all.


source (for the second time): http://www.fastelectrics.net/hydroplanes.php
Rear sponsons are not intended to run in contact with the water all the time - they should only touch the water when the transom drops, for example due to the nose pitching up, or when the boat is turning. Supporting the back of the boat clear of the water and making the hull run flat is the job of the propeller, not the rear sponsons. If you need rear sponsons to make an outrigger run flat (as opposed to "uphill"), then something is wrong with the design or setup of the boat, and fitting rear sponsons is no cure. Try moving the boat's balance point further forward, or swap to a lifting hydro propeller.


That Info Mr Guru was for a outrigger!!!!!lol...
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxz70017 View Post
Go back an find where you posted it was a 4 point!!
OK:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxz70017 View Post
This Is a 4 point hydro freeze the frame at 16 second's Your again wrong at what a 4 point actually Is!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxz70017 View Post
Now you come back In here after asking me straight up whats the UL1 ride on the prop an no riding plates!!!!!Then you come back an tell me that Is all It runs on After you Mr Twist It posted a link to show an describe how that hull style runs on the rear front sponsons an the wetted are of a flat bottom transom In your own post !!!!!Man you should get your facts straight boy!!!!
Read that article again... it CLEARLY states that a 3 point prop riding hydro doesn't have the transom in the water. A hydro with the transom in the water is still a 3 point, but its VERY old technology and runs a submerged prop. The only way you would have the back of the transom in the water AND have a surface prop would be to run a mono style stinger out the back of the transom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxz70017 View Post
Your own words.....There's three points of contact/lift (sponsons and prop), but there's no ride pads in the rear... How does it stay on the water then??? Does it fly on just the prop???
The bolded part was a rhetorical question, because you're so convinced that a hydro rides on ride pads in the rear... even when there isn't any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxz70017 View Post
How about the miss vegas deuce, it's a more traditional looking unlimited hydro...
Look at the picture I posted of it, it rides with the transom fully out of the water too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxz70017 View Post
Ok really you can have this boy I am out!!!!
Good, maybe now the quality of posts will go back up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxz70017 View Post
Rear sponsons are not intended to run in contact with the water all the time - they should only touch the water when the transom drops, for example due to the nose pitching up, or when the boat is turning. Supporting the back of the boat clear of the water and making the hull run flat is the job of the propeller, not the rear sponsons. If you need rear sponsons to make an outrigger run flat (as opposed to "uphill"), then something is wrong with the design or setup of the boat, and fitting rear sponsons is no cure. Try moving the boat's balance point further forward, or swap to a lifting hydro propeller.


That Info Mr Guru was for a outrigger!!!!!lol...
An outrigger is still a 3 point hydro Mr Guru...

And, just as a final nail in your coffin....



That's a stock brushless miss elam... Want to tell me how that rides on the ride pads, with only half the prop in the water?

Here's a shot of Darin Jordan's race prepped miss elam:



Still don't see any way those ride pads are in the water unless almost the whole prop is submerged...

Same boat, at speed... notice the transom (and ride pads) out of the water, and the sponsons on it...

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Old Oct 05, 2010, 11:28 PM
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lol exactly!!!!!

The Miss Elam Is a 3 point tunnel hull!!!!

He's also claiming the front sponsons shouldn't be touching the water, but they should. If they weren't meant to be in the water, the boat would look more like a tunnel hull...Now you go copying an pasteing quotes about me saying It wasnt a 4 point hydro !!!Again Mr Twisty You go find where you told me It was a 4 point hydro...An you Pal are again talking aboput a hole different boat mixing again what I say about a Miss Elam tunnel hull 3 point hydro!!!To the Ul1 flat transom hydro.As well as the vegas duece....Get what Both me an Scorpion own an Is talking about STRAIGHT!!!!! Before you come In here with your speal about again I dont know any thing!!!!!!!Before you open your PIE HOLE SPUTTERING THINGS THAT ARENT ABOUT THE SAME BOAT!!!!!!!!! LOL WHAT SHOT DID YOU JUST PM ME AN TELL ME I CANT RUN THE INTERNET TOO JUST WHAT 10 MINUTES AGO GOOD GOING CHAMP !!! YOUR OWN WORDS BASHING ME......


OK this Is the final one... You can all see Mr Twisty here knows all.An yes again I dont Know Jack good luck with his all so humble an 100% Info..He's all your's!!!!!
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