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Old Oct 05, 2010, 01:58 PM
GordySoar@aol.com
Guest
n/a Posts
First hand experience at motoring back at a motor back on event

The recent Radian Pro team event held at the Masters was all in fun, so
there was some fun being had.

Teams of 4, each guy got a 30second motor run controlled by the CD
announcement.

20++ winds and cold, the planes are pretty great sailplanes and definitely
over horse powered out of the box.

The final flight was a hoot...because we all said what the heck we can just
motor back.. and took our models Supra distance downwind. When we got
near the ground on the way back, we stopped the clocks and motored back....it
was supposed to be a 30 second penalty but seriously it took a lot longer
to make it back to the field in that wind. Stopping the clock was the
'right' thing to do, we decided as a team to do that.

Here's my point....there was a very limited window between one flight
ending and the next starting....if your model wasn't on the field, you missed
the flight window start.....so only one group made the mistake of taking a
chance on landing off field...and had to run to make the launch start.

The teams reminded pilots not to get too far off field. During the last
flight, there was no time window to meet for another flight.

Restartable is a slippery slope of accusations, and cheating....NOT
cheating during a contest, but during practices ...the pilot cheating himself
during practices. If you have a restartable, don't restart it....ever. Land
and relight, take your lumps learn your plane... become a better pilot.
Take the bitter pill, its good for you :-).

Okay so the next thing we'll see posted is ways to protect against cheaters
who might turn the motor one during a flight.....guys its a hobby. People
that cheat don't win....so why worry?

Gordy

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Old Oct 05, 2010, 02:15 PM
Don Harban
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: First hand experience at motoring back at a motor back on event

I've flown 'em both. And they are just different. For a hard nosed,
let's-emulate-what-we-do-now event, the hard cut-off is good. But I
use the restartable one for sport flying and practice. I get a
uniform launch altitude and can fly over and over. One of the most
interesting applications is flying the Radian with a 50 meter setting
(yes, I have one that will do this) and seeing how many restarts it
takes to fly an hour. Great for learning or playing with low level
lift. A more formal event with a two or three minute penalty for each
restart could be interesting. Even for guys who see no serious
"competition" future here, get some Radians with switches and make up
your own challenges -- you might discover something as interesting as
what we do now with our gliders -- but something that you can do down
the street instead of 20 miles away at the sod farm.

Remember, we do what we do now with our TD planes not only out of
experience and wisdom but also as a consequence of the limitations
that our planes, launch equipment and logistics impose on us. This is
a new ball game -- one with a reasonable bridge to the TD flying that
we do -- but still, a new ball game.

On Oct 5, 1:58 pm, GordyS...@aol.com wrote:

> The recent Radian Pro team event held at the Masters was all in fun, so  
> there was some fun being had.
>
> Teams of 4, each guy got a 30second motor run controlled by the CD  
> announcement.
>
> 20++ winds and cold, the planes are pretty great sailplanes and definitely  
> over horse powered out of the box.
>
> The final flight was a hoot...because we all said what the heck we can just
>  motor back.. and took our models Supra distance downwind.  When we got
> near  the ground on the way back, we stopped the clocks and motored back....it
> was  supposed to be a 30 second penalty but seriously it took a lot longer
> to make it  back to the field in that wind.  Stopping the clock was the
> 'right' thing  to do, we decided as a team to do that.
>
> Here's my point....there was a very limited window between one flight  
> ending and the next starting....if your model wasn't on the field, you missed  
> the flight window start.....so only one group made the mistake of taking a  
> chance on landing off field...and had to run to make the launch start.
>
> The teams reminded pilots not to get too far off field.  During the  last
> flight, there was no time window to meet for another flight.  
>
> Restartable is a slippery slope of accusations, and  cheating....NOT
> cheating during a contest, but during practices  ...the pilot cheating himself
> during practices.  If you have a restartable,  don't restart it....ever. Land
> and relight, take your lumps learn your plane...  become a better pilot.  
> Take the bitter pill, its good for you  :-).
>
> Okay so the next thing we'll see posted is ways to protect against cheaters
>  who might turn the motor one during a flight.....guys its a hobby.  People
>  that cheat don't win....so why worry?
>
> Gordy


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Old Oct 05, 2010, 02:38 PM
Paul Perret
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Re: First hand experience at motoring back at a motor back on event

Great post!
Build it and they will come.
A fun new tool to play and compete with.
Thanks Randy and Barry and those doing the work to make these events happen.
Paul


--- On Tue, 10/5/10, Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net> wrote:


> From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net>
> Subject: [RCSE] Re: First hand experience at motoring back at a motor back on event
> To: "RCSE" <rcse@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 2:15 PM
> I've flown 'em both.  And they
> are just different.  For a hard nosed,
> let's-emulate-what-we-do-now event, the hard cut-off is
> good.  But I
> use the restartable one for sport flying and
> practice.  I get a
> uniform launch altitude and can fly over and over. 
> One of the most
> interesting applications is flying the Radian with a 50
> meter setting
> (yes, I have one that will do this) and seeing how many
> restarts it
> takes to fly an hour.  Great for learning or playing
> with low level
> lift.  A more formal event with a two or three minute
> penalty for each
> restart could be interesting.  Even for guys who see
> no serious
> "competition" future here, get some Radians with switches
> and make up
> your own challenges -- you might discover something as
> interesting as
> what we do now with our gliders -- but something that you
> can do down
> the street instead of 20 miles away at the sod farm.
>
> Remember, we do what we do now with our TD planes not only
> out of
> experience and wisdom but also as a consequence of the
> limitations
> that our planes, launch equipment and logistics impose on
> us.  This is
> a new ball game -- one with a reasonable bridge to the TD
> flying that
> we do -- but still, a new ball game.
>
> On Oct 5, 1:58 pm, GordyS...@aol.com
> wrote:

> > The recent Radian Pro team event held at the Masters

> was all in fun, so  

> > there was some fun being had.
> >
> > Teams of 4, each guy got a 30second motor run

> controlled by the CD  

> > announcement.
> >
> > 20++ winds and cold, the planes are pretty great

> sailplanes and definitely  

> > over horse powered out of the box.
> >
> > The final flight was a hoot...because we all said what

> the heck we can just

> >  motor back.. and took our models Supra distance

> downwind.  When we got

> > near  the ground on the way back, we stopped the

> clocks and motored back....it

> > was  supposed to be a 30 second penalty but seriously

> it took a lot longer

> > to make it  back to the field in that wind.

>  Stopping the clock was the

> > 'right' thing  to do, we decided as a team to do

> that.

> >
> > Here's my point....there was a very limited window

> between one flight  

> > ending and the next starting....if your model wasn't

> on the field, you missed  

> > the flight window start.....so only one group made the

> mistake of taking a  

> > chance on landing off field...and had to run to make

> the launch start.

> >
> > The teams reminded pilots not to get too far off

> field.  During the  last

> > flight, there was no time window to meet for another

> flight.  

> >
> > Restartable is a slippery slope of accusations, and

>  cheating....NOT

> > cheating during a contest, but during practices

>  ...the pilot cheating himself

> > during practices.  If you have a restartable,  don't

> restart it....ever. Land

> > and relight, take your lumps learn your plane...

>  become a better pilot.  

> > Take the bitter pill, its good for you  :-).
> >
> > Okay so the next thing we'll see posted is ways to

> protect against cheaters

> >  who might turn the motor one during a

> flight.....guys its a hobby.  People

> >  that cheat don't win....so why worry?
> >
> > Gordy

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups "RCSE" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.
>
>





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Old Oct 05, 2010, 02:39 PM
GordySoar@aol.com
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Re: First hand experience at motoring back at a motor back on event

Okay that's an excellent reply!

The hobby is for fun, electric guys will never get what TD is to a hard
nose elitest sailplane guy....and most of us have passed the motor phase of
our lives and will have to relearn it if those kind of fun fly comps develop.

I did use the 50m setting on the Cam, at first its just annoying, you
figure its cutting off early, and you land...but if you wrap your head around
that the task is the task, and 50m makes every second before the model
touches that much more important, it can press guys to be more patient and to not
to give up on those farts that can burn a few more seconds.

Here's the catch again though...the suggestions still talking about
electric powered models with long wings...things for electric motor guys to do to
keep from getting bored with the actual soaring part of the task, because
the whole time they are thinking about props, motors and batteries...and
this is the RC Soaring Exchange.

Not a bad thing or a wrong thing, just a different thing, than current rc
soaring. Turning motors on and off as many times as you want, even with
penalties...is still turning on motors. RC soaring guys would prefer not to
even have to deal with radios...2.4 challenges/installs just really
aggravate, dealing with charging, fitting in motors, dealing with speed controls
and props.....just icing on a cake we never wanted. Notice the word motor was
used twice just in the title of this thread! I feel like I need to wash
my hands! :-)

For now there are fields enough to set winches and high starts....we are
still mostly able to hump the winch batteries and walk for chutes, but
clearly the day is coming. Heck the last time I was in Tullahoma, it was
everything I could do to cajole Chuck Anderson into putting out the turnaround
and to shag chutes for us all day! ;-)

Gordy


In a message dated 10/5/2010 3:16:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
misterharban@cox.net writes:

I've flown 'em both. And they are just different. For a hard nosed,
let's-emulate-what-we-do-now event, the hard cut-off is good. But I
use the restartable one for sport flying and practice. I get a
uniform launch altitude and can fly over and over. One of the most
interesting applications is flying the Radian with a 50 meter setting
(yes, I have one that will do this) and seeing how many restarts it
takes to fly an hour. Great for learning or playing with low level
lift. A more formal event with a two or three minute penalty for each
restart could be interesting. Even for guys who see no serious
"competition" future here, get some Radians with switches and make up
your own challenges -- you might discover something as interesting as
what we do now with our gliders -- but something that you can do down
the street instead of 20 miles away at the sod farm.

Remember, we do what we do now with our TD planes not only out of
experience and wisdom but also as a consequence of the limitations
that our planes, launch equipment and logistics impose on us. This is
a new ball game -- one with a reasonable bridge to the TD flying that
we do -- but still, a new ball game.

On Oct 5, 1:58 pm, GordyS...@aol.com wrote:

> The recent Radian Pro team event held at the Masters was all in fun, so
> there was some fun being had.
>
> Teams of 4, each guy got a 30second motor run controlled by the CD
> announcement.
>
> 20++ winds and cold, the planes are pretty great sailplanes and

definitely

> over horse powered out of the box.
>
> The final flight was a hoot...because we all said what the heck we can

just

> motor back.. and took our models Supra distance downwind. When we got
> near the ground on the way back, we stopped the clocks and motored

back....it

> was supposed to be a 30 second penalty but seriously it took a lot

longer

> to make it back to the field in that wind. Stopping the clock was the
> 'right' thing to do, we decided as a team to do that.
>
> Here's my point....there was a very limited window between one flight
> ending and the next starting....if your model wasn't on the field, you

missed

> the flight window start.....so only one group made the mistake of taking

a

> chance on landing off field...and had to run to make the launch start.
>
> The teams reminded pilots not to get too far off field. During the last
> flight, there was no time window to meet for another flight.
>
> Restartable is a slippery slope of accusations, and cheating....NOT
> cheating during a contest, but during practices ...the pilot cheating

himself

> during practices. If you have a restartable, don't restart it....ever.

Land

> and relight, take your lumps learn your plane... become a better pilot.



> Take the bitter pill, its good for you :-).
>
> Okay so the next thing we'll see posted is ways to protect against

cheaters

> who might turn the motor one during a flight.....guys its a hobby.

People

> that cheat don't win....so why worry?
>
> Gordy


--
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"RCSE" group.
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rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Old Oct 05, 2010, 06:29 PM
soar
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Re: First hand experience at motoring back at a motor back on event

good read Gordy!
Bob Summers LSF IV 3548


----- Original Message -----
From: GordySoar@aol.com
To: rcse@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: First hand experience at motoring back at a motor back on event


Okay that's an excellent reply!

The hobby is for fun, electric guys will never get what TD is to a hard nose elitest sailplane guy....and most of us have passed the motor phase of our lives and will have to relearn it if those kind of fun fly comps develop.

I did use the 50m setting on the Cam, at first its just annoying, you figure its cutting off early, and you land...but if you wrap your head around that the task is the task, and 50m makes every second before the model touches that much more important, it can press guys to be more patient and to not to give up on those farts that can burn a few more seconds.

Here's the catch again though...the suggestions still talking about electric powered models with long wings...things for electric motor guys to do to keep from getting bored with the actual soaring part of the task, because the whole time they are thinking about props, motors and batteries...and this is the RC Soaring Exchange.

Not a bad thing or a wrong thing, just a different thing, than current rc soaring. Turning motors on and off as many times as you want, even with penalties...is still turning on motors. RC soaring guys would prefer not to even have to deal with radios...2.4 challenges/installs just really aggravate, dealing with charging, fitting in motors, dealing with speed controls and props.....just icing on a cake we never wanted. Notice the word motor was used twice just in the title of this thread! I feel like I need to wash my hands! :-)

For now there are fields enough to set winches and high starts....we are still mostly able to hump the winch batteries and walk for chutes, but clearly the day is coming. Heck the last time I was in Tullahoma, it was everything I could do to cajole Chuck Anderson into putting out the turnaround and to shag chutes for us all day! ;-)

Gordy

In a message dated 10/5/2010 3:16:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, misterharban@cox.net writes:
I've flown 'em both. And they are just different. For a hard nosed,
let's-emulate-what-we-do-now event, the hard cut-off is good. But I
use the restartable one for sport flying and practice. I get a
uniform launch altitude and can fly over and over. One of the most
interesting applications is flying the Radian with a 50 meter setting
(yes, I have one that will do this) and seeing how many restarts it
takes to fly an hour. Great for learning or playing with low level
lift. A more formal event with a two or three minute penalty for each
restart could be interesting. Even for guys who see no serious
"competition" future here, get some Radians with switches and make up
your own challenges -- you might discover something as interesting as
what we do now with our gliders -- but something that you can do down
the street instead of 20 miles away at the sod farm.

Remember, we do what we do now with our TD planes not only out of
experience and wisdom but also as a consequence of the limitations
that our planes, launch equipment and logistics impose on us. This is
a new ball game -- one with a reasonable bridge to the TD flying that
we do -- but still, a new ball game.

On Oct 5, 1:58 pm, GordyS...@aol.com wrote:

> The recent Radian Pro team event held at the Masters was all in fun, so
> there was some fun being had.
>
> Teams of 4, each guy got a 30second motor run controlled by the CD
> announcement.
>
> 20++ winds and cold, the planes are pretty great sailplanes and definitely
> over horse powered out of the box.
>
> The final flight was a hoot...because we all said what the heck we can just
> motor back.. and took our models Supra distance downwind. When we got
> near the ground on the way back, we stopped the clocks and motored back....it
> was supposed to be a 30 second penalty but seriously it took a lot longer
> to make it back to the field in that wind. Stopping the clock was the
> 'right' thing to do, we decided as a team to do that.
>
> Here's my point....there was a very limited window between one flight
> ending and the next starting....if your model wasn't on the field, you missed
> the flight window start.....so only one group made the mistake of taking a
> chance on landing off field...and had to run to make the launch start.
>
> The teams reminded pilots not to get too far off field. During the last
> flight, there was no time window to meet for another flight.
>
> Restartable is a slippery slope of accusations, and cheating....NOT
> cheating during a contest, but during practices ...the pilot cheating himself
> during practices. If you have a restartable, don't restart it....ever. Land
> and relight, take your lumps learn your plane... become a better pilot.
> Take the bitter pill, its good for you :-).
>
> Okay so the next thing we'll see posted is ways to protect against cheaters
> who might turn the motor one during a flight.....guys its a hobby. People
> that cheat don't win....so why worry?
>
> Gordy


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